Guest guest Posted October 2, 2001 Report Share Posted October 2, 2001 I was deleting some mail and found this. Can't resist reposting it again! :-). Harsha Daniel Berkow [berkowd] A question I have here is when is nondefensive trust possible, when can "the intent to be one-up" be released, when is equality and honest sharing possible, including sharing of critiques without defense -- according to your view? ______ According to my view, based on top notch astrological research, this is possible when Jupiter is in Pluto and Saturn is in Neptune and Mars is in Venus while sun and the moon are both in harmony and are eclipsing each other and the eclipse has become self-canceling so everything appears bright in the daylight and dark at night. I believe this is the definitive view because it is my view. Thanks for asking Love Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2001 Report Share Posted October 3, 2001 Hi Mike and James, I think the answer is Yes also. Like the universe, everything is self supporting. Only rocks that can actually be lifted up can be dropped on you. Don't try this at home kids. smiles eric. Hi Mike, The answer is yes. The stone is the question that you asked (or its variations). Love, james , MikeSuesserott@t... wrote: > Dear Harsha, > > thanks for the early-morning smiles your repost brought to this lister. I > had taken a sabbatical from the list when it seemed there was too much venom > going around here for a time; on returning, I am glad to see a spirit of > love and friendship - and some good-humored banter, too - in this satsangha > once again. > > Now here is another ponderous question for which your ultimate view would be > needed. If God is all-powerful, can He create a stone too heavy to lift even > for Himself? > > Bet you can't answer that one. :-)) > > Take care, > > Michael Suesserott > > > > -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- > > Von: Harsha [harsha-hkl@h...] > > Gesendet: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 00:07 > > An: ; Nisargadatta > > Betreff: A Repost/Question and Answer :-) > > > > > > I was deleting some mail and found this. Can't resist reposting it again! > > :-). > > > > Harsha > > > > > > Daniel Berkow [berkowd@u...] > > > > A question I have here > > is when is nondefensive trust > > possible, when can "the > > intent to be one-up" be released, > > when is equality and > > honest sharing possible, > > including sharing > > of critiques without defense -- > > according to your view? > > > > ______ > > According to my view, based on top notch astrological research, this is > > possible when Jupiter is in Pluto and Saturn is in Neptune and Mars is in > > Venus while sun and the moon are both in harmony and are eclipsing each > > other and the eclipse has become self-canceling so everything > > appears bright > > in the daylight and dark at night. > > > > I believe this is the definitive view because it is my view. > > > > Thanks for asking > > Love > > Harsha > > > > > > > > /join > > > > > > > > > > > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, > > sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and > > exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves > > rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from > > Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come > > and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart > > Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A > > true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, > > spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to > > a. > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > > /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. Your use of is subject to ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: <sentto-73173-22681-1002122446-ErcAshfrd=aol.com (AT) returns (DOT) > Received: from rly-yc02.mx.aol.com (rly-yc02.mail.aol.com [172.18.149.34]) by air-yc01.mail.aol.com (v80.17) with ESMTP id MAILINYC19-1003113012; Wed, 03 Oct 2001 11:30:12 2000 Received: from n31. (n31. [216.115.96.81]) by rly-yc02.mx.aol.com (v80.21) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINYC28-1003112944; Wed, 03 Oct 2001 11:29:44 -0400 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-73173-22681-1002122446-ErcAshfrd=aol.com (AT) returns (DOT) Received: from [10.1.4.55] by n31. with NNFMP; 03 Oct 2001 15:20:47 -0000 X-Sender: nisarga (AT) chebucto (DOT) ns.ca X-Apparently- Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 3 Oct 2001 15:20:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 34186 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2001 15:20:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9. with QMQP; 3 Oct 2001 15:20:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6.) (10.1.10.45) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Oct 2001 15:20:45 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: nisarga (AT) chebucto (DOT) ns.ca Received: from [10.1.10.102] by n6. with NNFMP; 03 Oct 2001 15:20:45 -0000 Message-ID: <9pfac8+gugj (AT) eGroups (DOT) com> In-<HCEDJGLAJJLEAAGLKDIGCEMJELAA.MikeSuesserott (AT) t-online (DOT) de> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 192.75.95.57 "james traverse" <nisarga (AT) chebucto (DOT) ns.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ; contact -owner Delivered-mailing list Precedence: bulk List-Un: <> Wed, 03 Oct 2001 15:20:40 -0000 Re: A Repost/Question and Answer :-) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2001 Report Share Posted October 3, 2001 Thank you dear Michael and welcome back to you and all the new members. Your question is deep indeed and quite formidable. Perhaps the wise ones in the Sangha can ponder on it for a while. Glad you enjoy the spirit of the list. This is a fellowship and we hope to keep it friendly. You got to overlook the wild and crazy moments! Love Harsha MikeSuesserott [MikeSuesserott] Wednesday, October 03, 2001 6:34 AM AW: A Repost/Question and Answer :-) Dear Harsha, thanks for the early-morning smiles your repost brought to this lister. I had taken a sabbatical from the list when it seemed there was too much venom going around here for a time; on returning, I am glad to see a spirit of love and friendship - and some good-humored banter, too - in this satsangha once again. Now here is another ponderous question for which your ultimate view would be needed. If God is all-powerful, can He create a stone too heavy to lift even for Himself? Bet you can't answer that one. :-)) Take care, Michael Suesserott > -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- > Von: Harsha [harsha-hkl] > Gesendet: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 00:07 > An: ; Nisargadatta > Betreff: A Repost/Question and Answer :-) > > > I was deleting some mail and found this. Can't resist reposting it again! > :-). > > Harsha > > > Daniel Berkow [berkowd] > > A question I have here > is when is nondefensive trust > possible, when can "the > intent to be one-up" be released, > when is equality and > honest sharing possible, > including sharing > of critiques without defense -- > according to your view? > > ______ > According to my view, based on top notch astrological research, this is > possible when Jupiter is in Pluto and Saturn is in Neptune and Mars is in > Venus while sun and the moon are both in harmony and are eclipsing each > other and the eclipse has become self-canceling so everything > appears bright > in the daylight and dark at night. > > I believe this is the definitive view because it is my view. > > Thanks for asking > Love > Harsha > > > > /join > > > > > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, > sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and > exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves > rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from > Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come > and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart > Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A > true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, > spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to > a. > > > > Your use of is subject to > > /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2001 Report Share Posted October 3, 2001 Hi Mike, The answer is yes. The stone is the question that you asked (or its variations). Love, james , MikeSuesserott@t... wrote: > Dear Harsha, > > thanks for the early-morning smiles your repost brought to this lister. I > had taken a sabbatical from the list when it seemed there was too much venom > going around here for a time; on returning, I am glad to see a spirit of > love and friendship - and some good-humored banter, too - in this satsangha > once again. > > Now here is another ponderous question for which your ultimate view would be > needed. If God is all-powerful, can He create a stone too heavy to lift even > for Himself? > > Bet you can't answer that one. :-)) > > Take care, > > Michael Suesserott > > > > -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- > > Von: Harsha [harsha-hkl@h...] > > Gesendet: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 00:07 > > An: ; Nisargadatta > > Betreff: A Repost/Question and Answer :-) > > > > > > I was deleting some mail and found this. Can't resist reposting it again! > > :-). > > > > Harsha > > > > > > Daniel Berkow [berkowd@u...] > > > > A question I have here > > is when is nondefensive trust > > possible, when can "the > > intent to be one-up" be released, > > when is equality and > > honest sharing possible, > > including sharing > > of critiques without defense -- > > according to your view? > > > > ______ > > According to my view, based on top notch astrological research, this is > > possible when Jupiter is in Pluto and Saturn is in Neptune and Mars is in > > Venus while sun and the moon are both in harmony and are eclipsing each > > other and the eclipse has become self-canceling so everything > > appears bright > > in the daylight and dark at night. > > > > I believe this is the definitive view because it is my view. > > > > Thanks for asking > > Love > > Harsha > > > > > > > > /join > > > > > > > > > > > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, > > sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and > > exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves > > rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from > > Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come > > and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart > > Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A > > true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, > > spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to > > a. > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2001 Report Share Posted October 5, 2001 A big goofy ditto on this. love eric. Dear Mike, It was puzzles like this that probably prompted Wittgenstein to remark that "Philosophy is a trick played on humanity by the Greeks." Paradoxes made only of language rules simply cannot exist in reality. And you are correct that the way to solve it is simply to show how the question is flawed. Now how did you get so smart? Glo - MikeSuesserott (AT) t-online (DOT) de To: Friday, October 05, 2001 5:40 PM AW: Re: A Repost/Question and Answer :-) Dear Eric and James, thanks for your replies, and my apologies for my responding so late - seems I overlooked both your posts. Can an all-powerful God create a stone too heavy to lift for Himself? And if so, how can He be all-powerful since He cannot lift it? I do not know the original source of this question, but I am reasonably sure it was one of the paradoxa discussed in the Christian Scholastic literature of the Middle Ages. I would offer that these kinds of questions are instances of the human intellect proving its own limitations. The finite mind of man, circumscribed as it is by the law of causation, bound in the categories of time and space, seems unable to deal with the qualities of an Infinite Being that is without cause and beyond time and space. I believe you can't even answer yes or no here. It just doesn't apply - the question itself is already flawed. It's like asking, can an architect build a house that is bigger than yellow? And if he can't, how can he be an architect? All the best, Michael -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: ErcAshfrd (AT) aol (DOT) com [ErcAshfrd (AT) aol (DOT) com] Gesendet: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 17:38 An: Betreff: Re: Re: A Repost/Question and Answer :-) Hi Mike and James, I think the answer is Yes also. Like the universe, everything is self supporting. Only rocks that can actually be lifted up can be dropped on you. Don't try this at home kids. smiles eric. Hi Mike, The answer is yes. The stone is the question that you asked (or its variations). Love, james , MikeSuesserott@t... wrote: > Dear Harsha, > > thanks for the early-morning smiles your repost brought to this lister. I > had taken a sabbatical from the list when it seemed there was too much venom > going around here for a time; on returning, I am glad to see a spirit of > love and friendship - and some good-humored banter, too - in this satsangha > once again. > > Now here is another ponderous question for which your ultimate view would be > needed. If God is all-powerful, can He create a stone too heavy to lift even > for Himself? > > Bet you can't answer that one. :-)) > > Take care, > > Michael Suesserott > > > > -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- > > Von: Harsha [harsha-hkl@h...] > > Gesendet: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 00:07 > > An: ; Nisargadatta > > Betreff: A Repost/Question and Answer :-) > > > > > > I was deleting some mail and found this. Can't resist reposting it again! > > :-). > > > > Harsha > > > > > > Daniel Berkow [berkowd@u...] > > > > A question I have here > > is when is nondefensive trust > > possible, when can "the > > intent to be one-up" be released, > > when is equality and > > honest sharing possible, > > including sharing > > of critiques without defense -- > > according to your view? > > > > ______ > > According to my view, based on top notch astrological research, this is > > possible when Jupiter is in Pluto and Saturn is in Neptune and Mars is in > > Venus while sun and the moon are both in harmony and are eclipsing each > > other and the eclipse has become self-canceling so everything > > appears bright > > in the daylight and dark at night. > > > > I believe this is the definitive view because it is my view. > > > > Thanks for asking > > Love > > Harsha > > > > > > > > /join > > > > > > > > > > > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, > > sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and > > exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves > > rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from > > Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come > > and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart > > Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A > > true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, > > spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to > > a. > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > > /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. Your use of is subject to ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: <sentto-73173-22681-1002122446-ErcAshfrd=aol.com (AT) returns (DOT) > Received: from rly-yc02.mx.aol.com (rly-yc02.mail.aol.com [172.18.149.34]) by air-yc01.mail.aol.com (v80.17) with ESMTP id MAILINYC19-1003113012; Wed, 03 Oct 2001 11:30:12 2000 Received: from n31. (n31. [216.115.96.81]) by rly-yc02.mx.aol.com (v80.21) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINYC28-1003112944; Wed, 03 Oct 2001 11:29:44 -0400 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-73173-22681-1002122446-ErcAshfrd=aol.com (AT) returns (DOT) Received: from [10.1.4.55] by n31. with NNFMP; 03 Oct 2001 15:20:47 -0000 X-Sender: nisarga (AT) chebucto (DOT) ns.ca X-Apparently-To: Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 3 Oct 2001 15:20:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 34186 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2001 15:20:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9. with QMQP; 3 Oct 2001 15:20:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6.) (10.1.10.45) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Oct 2001 15:20:45 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: nisarga (AT) chebucto (DOT) ns.ca Received: from [10.1.10.102] by n6. with NNFMP; 03 Oct 2001 15:20:45 -0000 Message-ID: <9pfac8+gugj (AT) eGroups (DOT) com> In- <HCEDJGLAJJLEAAGLKDIGCEMJELAA.MikeSuesserott (AT) t-online (DOT) de> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 192.75.95.57 "james traverse" <nisarga (AT) chebucto (DOT) ns.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ; contact -owner Delivered-mailing list Precedence: bulk List-Un: <> Wed, 03 Oct 2001 15:20:40 -0000 Re: A Repost/Question and Answer :-) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. finalURL = "http://rd./M=194081.1637497.3177299.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705060955:HM/A=793313/R=0/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=3258";var flashFileURL = "http://java./a/1-/flash/ediets/3258_300x250.swf";var noFlashImg = "http://java./a/1-/flash/ediets/3258_300x250.gif"; /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: <sentto-73173-22782-1002318674-ErcAshfrd=aol.com (AT) returns (DOT) > Received: from rly-yb05.mx.aol.com (rly-yb05.mail.aol.com [172.18.146.5]) by air-yb05.mail.aol.com (v80.17) with ESMTP id MAILINYB56-1005175706; Fri, 05 Oct 2001 17:57:06 -0400 Received: from n27. (n27. 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Guest guest Posted October 5, 2001 Report Share Posted October 5, 2001 Dear Mike, It was puzzles like this that probably prompted Wittgenstein to remark that "Philosophy is a trick played on humanity by the Greeks." Paradoxes made only of language rules simply cannot exist in reality. And you are correct that the way to solve it is simply to show how the question is flawed. Now how did you get so smart? Glo - MikeSuesserott (AT) t-online (DOT) de Friday, October 05, 2001 5:40 PM AW: Re: A Repost/Question and Answer :-) Dear Eric and James, thanks for your replies, and my apologies for my responding so late - seems I overlooked both your posts. Can an all-powerful God create a stone too heavy to lift for Himself? And if so, how can He be all-powerful since He cannot lift it? I do not know the original source of this question, but I am reasonably sure it was one of the paradoxa discussed in the Christian Scholastic literature of the Middle Ages. I would offer that these kinds of questions are instances of the human intellect proving its own limitations. The finite mind of man, circumscribed as it is by the law of causation, bound in the categories of time and space, seems unable to deal with the qualities of an Infinite Being that is without cause and beyond time and space. I believe you can't even answer yes or no here. It just doesn't apply - the question itself is already flawed. It's like asking, can an architect build a house that is bigger than yellow? And if he can't, how can he be an architect? All the best, Michael -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----Von: ErcAshfrd (AT) aol (DOT) com [ErcAshfrd (AT) aol (DOT) com]Gesendet: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 17:38An: Betreff: Re: Re: A Repost/Question and Answer :-) Hi Mike and James, I think the answer is Yes also. Like the universe, everything is self supporting. Only rocks that can actually be lifted up can be dropped on you. Don't try this at home kids. smiles eric. Hi Mike, The answer is yes. The stone is the question that you asked (or its variations). Love, james , MikeSuesserott@t... wrote: > Dear Harsha, > > thanks for the early-morning smiles your repost brought to this lister. I > had taken a sabbatical from the list when it seemed there was too much venom > going around here for a time; on returning, I am glad to see a spirit of > love and friendship - and some good-humored banter, too - in this satsangha > once again. > > Now here is another ponderous question for which your ultimate view would be > needed. If God is all-powerful, can He create a stone too heavy to lift even > for Himself? > > Bet you can't answer that one. :-)) > > Take care, > > Michael Suesserott > > > > -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- > > Von: Harsha [harsha-hkl@h...] > > Gesendet: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 00:07 > > An: ; Nisargadatta > > Betreff: A Repost/Question and Answer :-) > > > > > > I was deleting some mail and found this. Can't resist reposting it again! > > :-). > > > > Harsha > > > > > > Daniel Berkow [berkowd@u...] > > > > A question I have here > > is when is nondefensive trust > > possible, when can "the > > intent to be one-up" be released, > > when is equality and > > honest sharing possible, > > including sharing > > of critiques without defense -- > > according to your view? > > > > ______ > > According to my view, based on top notch astrological research, this is > > possible when Jupiter is in Pluto and Saturn is in Neptune and Mars is in > > Venus while sun and the moon are both in harmony and are eclipsing each > > other and the eclipse has become self-canceling so everything > > appears bright > > in the daylight and dark at night. > > > > I believe this is the definitive view because it is my view. > > > > Thanks for asking > > Love > > Harsha > > > > > > > > /join > > > > > > > > > > > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, > > sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and > > exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves > > rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from > > Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come > > and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart > > Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A > > true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, > > spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to > > a. > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > > /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. Your use of is subject to ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: <sentto-73173-22681-1002122446-ErcAshfrd=aol.com (AT) returns (DOT) > Received: from rly-yc02.mx.aol.com (rly-yc02.mail.aol.com [172.18.149.34]) by air-yc01.mail.aol.com (v80.17) with ESMTP id MAILINYC19-1003113012; Wed, 03 Oct 2001 11:30:12 2000 Received: from n31. (n31. [216.115.96.81]) by rly-yc02.mx.aol.com (v80.21) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINYC28-1003112944; Wed, 03 Oct 2001 11:29:44 -0400 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-73173-22681-1002122446-ErcAshfrd=aol.com (AT) returns (DOT) Received: from [10.1.4.55] by n31. with NNFMP; 03 Oct 2001 15:20:47 -0000 X-Sender: nisarga (AT) chebucto (DOT) ns.ca X-Apparently-To: Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 3 Oct 2001 15:20:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 34186 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2001 15:20:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9. with QMQP; 3 Oct 2001 15:20:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6.) (10.1.10.45) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Oct 2001 15:20:45 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: nisarga (AT) chebucto (DOT) ns.ca Received: from [10.1.10.102] by n6. with NNFMP; 03 Oct 2001 15:20:45 -0000 Message-ID: <9pfac8+gugj (AT) eGroups (DOT) com> In- <HCEDJGLAJJLEAAGLKDIGCEMJELAA.MikeSuesserott (AT) t-online (DOT) de> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 192.75.95.57 "james traverse" <nisarga (AT) chebucto (DOT) ns.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ; contact -owner Delivered-mailing list Precedence: bulk List-Un: <> Wed, 03 Oct 2001 15:20:40 -0000 Re: A Repost/Question and Answer :-) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a.Your use of is subject to the /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a.Your use of is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2001 Report Share Posted October 5, 2001 Hi Mike, I also feel that these qusetions are as you say: 'I would offer that these kinds of questions are instances of the human intellect proving its own limitations.' This is the whole point of these questions - and things like Zen koans (the sound of a single hand etc.). I feel that they are answerable but not in the conventional ways - the answers are beyond the intellect - they are portals to intuition, which is much more ancient than the intellect. So, the answers are first 'felt' and then the intellect states the understanding in its own way - the answer will still sound 'strange'. For example: the answer in this case has two parts- 1.) Yes, such a stone can be created, 2.) The stone here is the question itself - the question is allowed to live. Allowing the question to live facilitates a 'space' where the intellect sees its limitations. Therefore it 'lets go' and it is rendered transparent (it is still available - it is simply quiet). The transparency of the intellect is a portal to the non-mental dimension of being where 'the answer' is 'felt'. 'Strangely Yours' Love, james , MikeSuesserott@t... wrote: > Dear Eric and James, > > thanks for your replies, and my apologies for my responding so late - seems > I overlooked both your posts. > > Can an all-powerful God create a stone too heavy to lift for Himself? And if > so, how can He be all-powerful since He cannot lift it? I do not know the > original source of this question, but I am reasonably sure it was one of the > paradoxa discussed in the Christian Scholastic literature of the Middle > Ages. > > I would offer that these kinds of questions are instances of the human > intellect proving its own limitations. The finite mind of man, circumscribed > as it is by the law of causation, bound in the categories of time and space, > seems unable to deal with the qualities of an Infinite Being that is without > cause and beyond time and space. > > I believe you can't even answer yes or no here. It just doesn't apply - the > question itself is already flawed. It's like asking, can an architect build > a house that is bigger than yellow? And if he can't, how can he be an > architect? > > All the best, > > Michael > > > > -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- > Von: ErcAshfrd@a... [ErcAshfrd@a...] > Gesendet: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 17:38 > An: > Betreff: Re: Re: A Repost/Question and Answer :-) > > > > > Hi Mike and James, > > > > I think the answer is Yes also. > Like the universe, everything is self supporting. > Only rocks that can actually be lifted up > can be dropped on you. > Don't try this at home kids. > > smiles > > eric. > > > > > Hi Mike, > The answer is yes. The stone is the question that you asked (or > its variations). > > Love, > james > > , MikeSuesserott@t... wrote: > > Dear Harsha, > > > > thanks for the early-morning smiles your repost brought to this > lister. I > > had taken a sabbatical from the list when it seemed there was too > much venom > > going around here for a time; on returning, I am glad to see a > spirit of > > love and friendship - and some good-humored banter, too - in this > satsangha > > once again. > > > > Now here is another ponderous question for which your ultimate view > would be > > needed. If God is all-powerful, can He create a stone too heavy to > lift even > > for Himself? > > > > Bet you can't answer that one. :-)) > > > > Take care, > > > > Michael Suesserott > > > > > > > -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- > > > Von: Harsha [harsha-hkl@h...] > > > Gesendet: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 00:07 > > > An: ; Nisargadatta > > > Betreff: A Repost/Question and Answer :-) > > > > > > > > > I was deleting some mail and found this. Can't resist reposting it > again! > > > :-). > > > > > > Harsha > > > > > > > > > Daniel Berkow [berkowd@u...] > > > > > > A question I have here > > > is when is nondefensive trust > > > possible, when can "the > > > intent to be one-up" be released, > > > when is equality and > > > honest sharing possible, > > > including sharing > > > of critiques without defense -- > > > according to your view? > > > > > > ______ > > > According to my view, based on top notch astrological research, > this is > > > possible when Jupiter is in Pluto and Saturn is in Neptune and > Mars is in > > > Venus while sun and the moon are both in harmony and are eclipsing > each > > > other and the eclipse has become self-canceling so everything > > > appears bright > > > in the daylight and dark at night. > > > > > > I believe this is the definitive view because it is my view. > > > > > > Thanks for asking > > > Love > > > Harsha > > > > > > > > > > > > /join > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, > > > sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and > > > exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves > > > rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from > > > Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come > > > and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart > > > Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A > > > true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, > > > spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to > > > a. > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > > > > /join > > > > > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, > perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside > back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than > the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. > Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is > where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal > Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously > arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > > > > ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- > Return-Path: > <sentto-73173-22681-1002122446-ErcAshfrd=aol.com@r...> > Received: from rly-yc02.mx.aol.com (rly-yc02.mail.aol.com > [172.18.149.34]) by air-yc01.mail.aol.com (v80.17) with ESMTP id > MAILINYC19-1003113012; Wed, 03 Oct 2001 11:30:12 2000 > Received: from n31. (n31. > [216.115.96.81]) by rly-yc02.mx.aol.com (v80.21) with ESMTP id > MAILRELAYINYC28-1003112944; Wed, 03 Oct 2001 11:29:44 -0400 > X-eGroups-Return: > sentto-73173-22681-1002122446-ErcAshfrd=aol.com@r... > Received: from [10.1.4.55] by n31. with NNFMP; 03 Oct > 2001 15:20:47 -0000 > X-Sender: nisarga@c... > X-Apparently- > Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 3 Oct 2001 15:20:46 -0000 > Received: (qmail 34186 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2001 15:20:45 -0000 > Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) > by l9. with QMQP; 3 Oct 2001 15:20:45 -0000 > Received: from unknown (HELO n6.) (10.1.10.45) > by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Oct 2001 15:20:45 -0000 > X-eGroups-Return: nisarga@c... > Received: from [10.1.10.102] by n6. with NNFMP; 03 Oct > 2001 15:20:45 -0000 > > Message-ID: <9pfac8+gugj@e...> > In-<HCEDJGLAJJLEAAGLKDIGCEMJELAA.MikeSuesserott@t...> > User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 > X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster > X-Originating-IP: 192.75.95.57 > "james traverse" <nisarga@c...> > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Mailing-List: list ; contact > -owner > Delivered-mailing list > Precedence: bulk > List-Un: <-> > Wed, 03 Oct 2001 15:20:40 -0000 > > Re: A Repost/Question and Answer :-) > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sponsor > > > > > > /join > > > > > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, > perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside > back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than > the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. > Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is > where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal > Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously > arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. > > > > Terms of Service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2001 Report Share Posted October 5, 2001 Hi again Mike, The most significant point of the 'process' of these questions is to 'live the answer' which means that the intellect remains quiet, innocent, and one realizes that it is possible to live in the non-mental dimension and use the intellect appropriately. Love, james , MikeSuesserott@t... wrote: > Dear Eric and James, > > thanks for your replies, and my apologies for my responding so late - seems > I overlooked both your posts. > > Can an all-powerful God create a stone too heavy to lift for Himself? And if > so, how can He be all-powerful since He cannot lift it? I do not know the > original source of this question, but I am reasonably sure it was one of the > paradoxa discussed in the Christian Scholastic literature of the Middle > Ages. > > I would offer that these kinds of questions are instances of the human > intellect proving its own limitations. The finite mind of man, circumscribed > as it is by the law of causation, bound in the categories of time and space, > seems unable to deal with the qualities of an Infinite Being that is without > cause and beyond time and space. > > I believe you can't even answer yes or no here. It just doesn't apply - the > question itself is already flawed. It's like asking, can an architect build > a house that is bigger than yellow? And if he can't, how can he be an > architect? > > All the best, > > Michael > > > > -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- > Von: ErcAshfrd@a... [ErcAshfrd@a...] > Gesendet: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 17:38 > An: > Betreff: Re: Re: A Repost/Question and Answer :-) > > > > > Hi Mike and James, > > > > I think the answer is Yes also. > Like the universe, everything is self supporting. > Only rocks that can actually be lifted up > can be dropped on you. > Don't try this at home kids. > > smiles > > eric. > > > > > Hi Mike, > The answer is yes. The stone is the question that you asked (or > its variations). > > Love, > james > > , MikeSuesserott@t... wrote: > > Dear Harsha, > > > > thanks for the early-morning smiles your repost brought to this > lister. I > > had taken a sabbatical from the list when it seemed there was too > much venom > > going around here for a time; on returning, I am glad to see a > spirit of > > love and friendship - and some good-humored banter, too - in this > satsangha > > once again. > > > > Now here is another ponderous question for which your ultimate view > would be > > needed. If God is all-powerful, can He create a stone too heavy to > lift even > > for Himself? > > > > Bet you can't answer that one. :-)) > > > > Take care, > > > > Michael Suesserott > > > > > > > -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- > > > Von: Harsha [harsha-hkl@h...] > > > Gesendet: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 00:07 > > > An: ; Nisargadatta > > > Betreff: A Repost/Question and Answer :-) > > > > > > > > > I was deleting some mail and found this. Can't resist reposting it > again! > > > :-). > > > > > > Harsha > > > > > > > > > Daniel Berkow [berkowd@u...] > > > > > > A question I have here > > > is when is nondefensive trust > > > possible, when can "the > > > intent to be one-up" be released, > > > when is equality and > > > honest sharing possible, > > > including sharing > > > of critiques without defense -- > > > according to your view? > > > > > > ______ > > > According to my view, based on top notch astrological research, > this is > > > possible when Jupiter is in Pluto and Saturn is in Neptune and > Mars is in > > > Venus while sun and the moon are both in harmony and are eclipsing > each > > > other and the eclipse has become self-canceling so everything > > > appears bright > > > in the daylight and dark at night. > > > > > > I believe this is the definitive view because it is my view. > > > > > > Thanks for asking > > > Love > > > Harsha > > > > > > > > > > > > /join > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, > > > sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and > > > exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves > > > rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from > > > Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come > > > and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart > > > Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A > > > true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, > > > spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to > > > a. > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > > > > /join > > > > > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, > perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside > back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than > the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. > Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is > where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal > Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously > arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > > > > ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- > Return-Path: > <sentto-73173-22681-1002122446-ErcAshfrd=aol.com@r...> > Received: from rly-yc02.mx.aol.com (rly-yc02.mail.aol.com > [172.18.149.34]) by air-yc01.mail.aol.com (v80.17) with ESMTP id > MAILINYC19-1003113012; Wed, 03 Oct 2001 11:30:12 2000 > Received: from n31. (n31. > [216.115.96.81]) by rly-yc02.mx.aol.com (v80.21) with ESMTP id > MAILRELAYINYC28-1003112944; Wed, 03 Oct 2001 11:29:44 -0400 > X-eGroups-Return: > sentto-73173-22681-1002122446-ErcAshfrd=aol.com@r... > Received: from [10.1.4.55] by n31. with NNFMP; 03 Oct > 2001 15:20:47 -0000 > X-Sender: nisarga@c... > X-Apparently- > Received: (EGP: mail-7_4_1); 3 Oct 2001 15:20:46 -0000 > Received: (qmail 34186 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2001 15:20:45 -0000 > Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) > by l9. with QMQP; 3 Oct 2001 15:20:45 -0000 > Received: from unknown (HELO n6.) (10.1.10.45) > by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Oct 2001 15:20:45 -0000 > X-eGroups-Return: nisarga@c... > Received: from [10.1.10.102] by n6. with NNFMP; 03 Oct > 2001 15:20:45 -0000 > > Message-ID: <9pfac8+gugj@e...> > In-<HCEDJGLAJJLEAAGLKDIGCEMJELAA.MikeSuesserott@t...> > User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 > X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster > X-Originating-IP: 192.75.95.57 > "james traverse" <nisarga@c...> > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Mailing-List: list ; contact > -owner > Delivered-mailing list > Precedence: bulk > List-Un: <-> > Wed, 03 Oct 2001 15:20:40 -0000 > > Re: A Repost/Question and Answer :-) > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sponsor > > > > > > /join > > > > > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, > perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside > back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than > the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. > Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is > where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal > Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously > arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. > > > > Terms of Service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2001 Report Share Posted October 8, 2001 - MikeSuesserott (AT) t-online (DOT) de Monday, October 08, 2001 4:42 PM AW: Re: A Repost/Question and Answer :-) Dear Gloria, allow me to return the compliment. Your words hit squarely at the core of this subtle argument. You aren't an undercover professor of philosophy, by any chance? :-) No, that would be Greg. He really does have a PHD in philosophy and a brain to match. While my undergraduate days are far in the past, I did more recently read a life of Wittgenstein. And like his quote on silence, you remind me that knowing our limitations can actually be very freeing. The reminiscing by you and Nina on Vienna creates a lovely picture. I never made it there, but you remind me of other cities I loved, like Prague or Florence. Those really keeping that atmosphere of centuries of history. Tho my husband was never opera singer material, he listens to them a lot, along with other classical music. Now that he's retired, he has time for composing music. He also became a mathemetician, must be some not so hidden connection between the understanding of the two. What flavor of mathematican are you? He went into biostatistics, parameters for valid medical test data mostly. I'm a great appreciator of other people's intelligence, it's all beyond me. Love, Glo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2001 Report Share Posted October 8, 2001 Hi Michael, I'm back with yet another 'answer' to the original question. Yes, 'God' can create a stone to heavy to lift, even for Himself. The stone is Love. Heavily, Love, James ~~~ > Now here is another ponderous question for which your ultimate view would be needed. If God is all-powerful, can He create a stone too heavy to lift even for Himself? > > > > Take care, > > > > Michael Suesserott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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