Kundalini some thoughts, no experiences

[Guest guest]

Hmmm....

 

 

my thoughts on this matter is that Kundalini reveals itself in time

and that it and the process it imparts is intimately linked to

nonduality, to the extent that one can't really have one without the

other. It's a question that is revealed in time by the frequency of

likeness and alignment that K really is.

 

While Joyce's story is definite, it's not unique, even without the

start point being a K awakening, the stories of Bernadette Roberts

and in particular Suzanne Segal's (can be read at www.nonduality.com)

are illustrative of this.

 

Apart from the physical and mental problems that an awakened K can

impart, I suspect the very fearful experience of emptiness, no-self,

which both Roberts and Segal (and Joyce) experienced and describe,

are common in the world of spiritual practice, institutional and

otherwise but weren't common in the West until various practices

became common in the previous century.

 

As painful and fearful (and depressive, but is that the right word

for it?) the emptiness of no-self can be for the unsuspecting or

solitary practitioner, the experience usually gives way to a smoother

and more peaceful state over time and as with Joyce, under the eyes

of a being that has overcome the initial fear (an emotional reaction

which is a vestige of the self that has given way to no-self).

 

Dr. Stuart Sovatsky, who works as a therapist and counselling

spiritual emergencies and written about the use of transforming Eros

into life energy in spiritual practice, regards these fearful

experiences as "halfway" awakenings, something has happened but

something is missing from the experience. He suggests the development

of a sense of heartfelt and honest devotion (doesn't matter to what,

the guru or the divine itself) to bring about the integration of such

experiences.

 

He also prescribes the same simple advice (developing a sense of

devotion) for depression... IIRC he uses the very words "depression

is an expression of longing and very often spiritual longing".

 

In my own experience Mr. Sovatsky is correct, depression is the deep

sense that something is lacking, something (usually oneself) is wrong

and that one wishes to get away from this... a longing towards

something else than what is currently happening.

 

It may sound strange but the sense of depression and longing are very

much related on the emotional spectrum to devotion.. devotion being

longing which has somewhere to go, directed towards something...

 

The sensation of heartfelt devotion is important because it

automatically lets up on a lot of the fear reactions of the body, the

physical results of adrenaline in the body. Ms. Segal was adviced by

the teachers she came into contact with to move away from the

experience of fear of no-self and that no longer paying attention to

it would deepener her experience and give way for something else.

 

In the same way the adrenaline reaction of fear may be common but it

really isn't too useful or valuable... while a sensation of devotion

may be hard to develop or even look pointless, it really has its

values as it connects the emotive part of the body (the part that

directly fears) with the spiritual part (which has the experience of

no-self) and gives the spiritual part a chance to work on the emotive

part, much as a teacher's spiritual presence worked on Joyce as she

describes it.

 

Commanding oneself to relax is near impossible but developing a sense

of devotion/trust will help in loosening on the fear (and depression)

reaction. In it's own sense, depression and suffering are only two

steps away from devotion... another tantric exercise and what the ten

plates of zen buddhism mentions in the hunt for the bull. Emotions go

only one way and they end up at the same point and K is very much a

part of that. In the end K tells us that reacting is ok and that

we're reacting to shadows and a play of shadows only but that doesn't

make reacting any less important or needed for a while.

 

 

I see it as particularly important that Joyce in her wisdom put the

following quote at the end of her post:

 

> > I found a nice quote from John Blofield - again - written in my

> journal

> > April, 1980....from the Taoist masters.

> >

> > "The secret is to sense when actions are timely and in accord

> with the

> > "Way", or otherwise. It is a matter of learning to

be.....Becoming

> Immortal

> > has nothing to do with physical changes, it means coming to know

> something,

> > realizing something - an experience that can happen in a flash.

> >Now do you see? You cannot die because you have

> never

> > lived. Life cannot die, because it has no beginning and no end.

> Becoming

> > an Immortal just means ceasing to identify yourself with shadows

and

> > recognize that the only "you" is everlasting life."

 

 

Love,

 

Amanda.

[Guest guest]

Lovely thoughts Amanda... thanks for thinking out loud. The depths

of your knowledge and thinking are always a gateway of further

understanding for me.

Love,

xxxtg

 

 

, mumblecat@a... wrote:

>

>

> Hmmm....

>

>

> my thoughts on this matter is that Kundalini reveals itself in

time

> and that it and the process it imparts is intimately linked to

> nonduality, to the extent that one can't really have one without

the

> other. It's a question that is revealed in time by the frequency

of

> likeness and alignment that K really is.

>

> While Joyce's story is definite, it's not unique, even without the

> start point being a K awakening, the stories of Bernadette Roberts

> and in particular Suzanne Segal's (can be read at

www.nonduality.com)

> are illustrative of this.

>

> Apart from the physical and mental problems that an awakened K can

> impart, I suspect the very fearful experience of emptiness, no-

self,

> which both Roberts and Segal (and Joyce) experienced and describe,

> are common in the world of spiritual practice, institutional and

> otherwise but weren't common in the West until various practices

> became common in the previous century.

>

> As painful and fearful (and depressive, but is that the right word

> for it?) the emptiness of no-self can be for the unsuspecting or

> solitary practitioner, the experience usually gives way to a

smoother

> and more peaceful state over time and as with Joyce, under the

eyes

> of a being that has overcome the initial fear (an emotional

reaction

> which is a vestige of the self that has given way to no-self).

>

> Dr. Stuart Sovatsky, who works as a therapist and counselling

> spiritual emergencies and written about the use of transforming

Eros

> into life energy in spiritual practice, regards these fearful

> experiences as "halfway" awakenings, something has happened but

> something is missing from the experience. He suggests the

development

> of a sense of heartfelt and honest devotion (doesn't matter to

what,

> the guru or the divine itself) to bring about the integration of

such

> experiences.

>

> He also prescribes the same simple advice (developing a sense of

> devotion) for depression... IIRC he uses the very

words "depression

> is an expression of longing and very often spiritual longing".

>

> In my own experience Mr. Sovatsky is correct, depression is the

deep

> sense that something is lacking, something (usually oneself) is

wrong

> and that one wishes to get away from this... a longing towards

> something else than what is currently happening.

>

> It may sound strange but the sense of depression and longing are

very

> much related on the emotional spectrum to devotion.. devotion

being

> longing which has somewhere to go, directed towards something...

>

> The sensation of heartfelt devotion is important because it

> automatically lets up on a lot of the fear reactions of the body,

the

> physical results of adrenaline in the body. Ms. Segal was adviced

by

> the teachers she came into contact with to move away from the

> experience of fear of no-self and that no longer paying attention

to

> it would deepener her experience and give way for something else.

>

> In the same way the adrenaline reaction of fear may be common but

it

> really isn't too useful or valuable... while a sensation of

devotion

> may be hard to develop or even look pointless, it really has its

> values as it connects the emotive part of the body (the part that

> directly fears) with the spiritual part (which has the experience

of

> no-self) and gives the spiritual part a chance to work on the

emotive

> part, much as a teacher's spiritual presence worked on Joyce as

she

> describes it.

>

> Commanding oneself to relax is near impossible but developing a

sense

> of devotion/trust will help in loosening on the fear (and

depression)

> reaction. In it's own sense, depression and suffering are only two

> steps away from devotion... another tantric exercise and what the

ten

> plates of zen buddhism mentions in the hunt for the bull. Emotions

go

> only one way and they end up at the same point and K is very much

a

> part of that. In the end K tells us that reacting is ok and that

> we're reacting to shadows and a play of shadows only but that

doesn't

> make reacting any less important or needed for a while.

>

>

> I see it as particularly important that Joyce in her wisdom put

the

> following quote at the end of her post:

>

>

> > > I found a nice quote from John Blofield - again - written in

my

> > journal

> > > April, 1980....from the Taoist masters.

> > >

> > > "The secret is to sense when actions are timely and in

accord

> > with the

> > > "Way", or otherwise. It is a matter of learning to

> be.....Becoming

> > Immortal

> > > has nothing to do with physical changes, it means coming to

know

> > something,

> > > realizing something - an experience that can happen in a

flash.

>

> > >Now do you see? You cannot die because you have

> > never

> > > lived. Life cannot die, because it has no beginning and no

end.

> > Becoming

> > > an Immortal just means ceasing to identify yourself with

shadows

> and

> > > recognize that the only "you" is everlasting life."

>

>

> Love,

>

> Amanda.

[Guest guest]

>>> leteegee 10/19/01 14:40 PM >>>

Lovely thoughts Amanda... thanks for thinking out loud. The depths

of your knowledge and thinking are always a gateway of further

understanding for me.

Love,

xxxtg

 

Yes, thanks, Amanda, I would like to add my second to tg's comment above, and to

say I am happy to see you both back here in recent weeks after your absences.

 

When I experienced kundalini awakening, one very surprising aspect was the

experience of sudden and compelling devotion. Before kundalini, I had

understood God as transcendent reality, without form, and found the conception

of God with form and attribute rather difficult, or artificial. From the first

ecstatic experience of the awakening this changed; wiithout any intention or

conscious idea, I would wake in the middle of the night every night those first

months of new, pouring kundalini energy, calling the names of forms of god

unfamiliar to me, consumed with a devotion I did not intellectually understand.

Devotion has indeed been the sustaining cord in the most difficult aspects of

the k process.

 

Jill