Guest guest Posted October 24, 2001 Report Share Posted October 24, 2001 I don't usually comment, but this week I thought I might ask for help. I'm preaching this Sunday on anxiety and it's ongoing resolution. The title is "peace in the midst of the storm". The texts are Mt. 6:25-34 and Mk. 4:35-41. In the first one Jesus says 'do not worry about what you shall eat or what you shall wear' for God will take care of you. In the second, a storm comes up, all the disciples freak out, and Jesus awakens to calm it and suggest that we not let anxiety rule us. I am interested in making some connections in an inter-religious way between Christianity and eastern traditions. It seems to me that anxiety is a nearly universal spiritual problem that is addressed in quite a few profound ways. If you would have a comment or could point me towards something to read, I would appreciate it greatly. Rev. Charles Rush Christ Church Summit, NJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2001 Report Share Posted October 24, 2001 , "Rev Charles T Rush" <ctrush@b...> wrote: > I don't usually comment, but this week I thought I might ask for help. I'm > preaching this Sunday on anxiety and it's ongoing resolution. The title is > "peace in the midst of the storm". The texts are Mt. 6:25-34 and Mk. > 4:35-41. In the first one Jesus says 'do not worry about what you shall eat > or what you shall wear' for God will take care of you. In the second, a > storm comes up, all the disciples freak out, and Jesus awakens to calm it > and suggest that we not let anxiety rule us. > > I am interested in making some connections in an inter-religious way between > Christianity and eastern traditions. It seems to me that anxiety is a nearly > universal spiritual problem that is addressed in quite a few profound ways. > > If you would have a comment or could point me towards something to read, I > would appreciate it greatly. > > Rev. Charles Rush > Christ Church > Summit, NJ Each of us is at our core utterly free from all anxiety. We exist as silent wells of pure being, completely unperturbed by anything that happens in life or in death. If we can believe this with all our hearts, we might find some of that silent knowing welling up into our lives as individuals, thereby drawing solace from the Self in the form of shanti (peace). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2001 Report Share Posted October 24, 2001 Sounds good, Charles! Good luck with it! I remember a long, long time ago reading a short book by Alan Watts called, I think, "The Problem of Anxiety" It was about how trying to control anxiety *is* anxiety, and how being anxiety allows it to dissolve ... The one who doesn't like the state and tries to get out of the state, or tries to control it by eliminating what is causing it, or by using various techniques or drugs to control the response -- That one who experiences a separated existence is nothing *but* anxiety -- So, the anxiety must be regenerated over and over, so that one can have problems to solve and worlds to conquer, can continue to believe in a self-separate existence. I must solve my anxiety, because that affirms my control (which anxiety wants to have), but must continue my anxiety so I have something to control (and can thus continue to exist). Another reference: Gautama saying, "life is suffering", which might be very loosely interpreted as "without anxiety, you won't believe/feel you live/exist." Or perhaps: "without experiencing lack and imbalance, you won't know you're there." -- Dan --- Rev Charles T Rush <ctrush wrote: > I don't usually comment, but this week I thought I > might ask for help. I'm > preaching this Sunday on anxiety and it's ongoing > resolution. The title is > "peace in the midst of the storm". The texts are Mt. > 6:25-34 and Mk. > 4:35-41. In the first one Jesus says 'do not worry > about what you shall eat > or what you shall wear' for God will take care of > you. In the second, a > storm comes up, all the disciples freak out, and > Jesus awakens to calm it > and suggest that we not let anxiety rule us. > > I am interested in making some connections in an > inter-religious way between > Christianity and eastern traditions. It seems to me > that anxiety is a nearly > universal spiritual problem that is addressed in > quite a few profound ways. > > If you would have a comment or could point me > towards something to read, I > would appreciate it greatly. > > Rev. Charles Rush > Christ Church > Summit, NJ > > > ------------------------ Sponsor > > /join > > > > > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, > places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all > experiences arise from and exist in and subside back > into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are > not different than the ocean, all things arising > from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. > Awareness does not come and go but is always > Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. > Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal > Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of > Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within > into It Self. Welcome all to a. > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > Make a great connection at Personals. http://personals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2001 Report Share Posted October 24, 2001 , "Rev Charles T Rush" <ctrush@b...> wrote: > I don't usually comment, but this week I thought I might ask for help. I'm > preaching this Sunday on anxiety and it's ongoing resolution. The title is > "peace in the midst of the storm". The texts are Mt. 6:25-34 and Mk. > 4:35-41. In the first one Jesus says 'do not worry about what you shall eat > or what you shall wear' for God will take care of you. In the second, a > storm comes up, all the disciples freak out, and Jesus awakens to calm it > and suggest that we not let anxiety rule us. Namaste, To me, (who gets anxious as well sometimes), it is a disconnection between our lower mind and higher mind. The higher reflecting the Bliss, and Calm of the Self. Meditation or prayer would reduce anxiety, surrendering to our higher being would also reduce it, or eliminate it. I am learning to observe rather than make emotional connections. Give our worries to the Lord, it is like the Vedantic story of the man getting on the train, with his belongings on his head. He only has to put them down and the train will carry them. Surrender the anxiety to the Lord, He knows what's best so why be anxious about a result we cannot control.......ONS.......Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2001 Report Share Posted October 24, 2001 Rev Charles, Dan, Jody & Friends, 1st, I agree with all the various insights quoted above, but would like to add an observation of my own that has developed over the years since my original involvment with the demands of a Guru, in my case, Baba Muktananda. As it refers to effects that tend to accompagny "serious" sadhana, or the conscious acceptance of the results of ultimate or penultimate initiation, it may not have much value for Rev Charles, with his obvious responsibility to craft something of more general value for his parishioners. All sadhanas, in my observation, contain demands that both point to a position as it would be experienced if one were at the point of "cause", or final Enlightenment, as well as serving as an exercize in the expression of one's commitment in the face of being subject to the increasing pressure of one's karma (usually negative) that immersion in serious sadhana always brings in it's wake. Examples of this rigorous discipline can be found not only in the quote from Jesus about anxiety, which the disciple will experience in any case, but also in his admonition to be as the "lilies in the fields. who toil not, etc. We are not "the lilies in the fields", nor even like them in our ability to sustain nourishment by merely passively existing, nor can our imitation of their example serve us without also serving up a healthy dollop of this same anxiety that wse are urged to give up. "Turn the other cheek" falls into this same category. It suggests an enlightened response, but it is also an extremely unreasonable and anxiety provoking challenge to the personal needs of a realistic person. It takes a position on negative karma ( the original confrontation ) and then, ups the ante, so to speak. It's my firm belief, my findings, really, that all intense "short paths" contain self contradictory demands like these. Just consider the trials of Naropa or Milarepa in the Tibetan Tantric tradition. Extreme disciples, but also extreme "achievers" or saints, have always faced these kinds of direct challenge to the normal need to protect and nourish the personal existence. In Sufism, we can look to any number of renunciates like Hallaj with his insistence on "an al Haq", that I am the reality (Allah), in the face of mercilessly Dualistic jurists and Mullahs (who subsequently crucified him), or Rabia's powerful, but equally dangerous and provocative statements of Monism in the face of both sexist and dualist leaders of the Islamic faith. In that ultimately sexist society, she was given to point out in answer to one challenge about her conduct in the face of men, her "superiors", that in the intensity of her belief in Islam, she saw no "men", but rather all were women in the presence of Allah. She has been handed down to us by this most extreme expression of Dualistic sexism (the Islamic tradition), as a woman who personified God's harsh judgments of the male saints who frequented her company in spite of the prevailing harsh codes of conduct to which they, as well as she, were subject. Amazingly, she lived in Mecca and freely criticized the greatest saints of her age. Mirabhai and Lalleshvar in the Indian tradition were equally unmindful both of their personal images and welfare, as well as the excruciating anxiety their conduct in affirming the absolute ascendance of God and his disregard of "normal" conduct must have cost them. They contravened the rigid conventions of marriage, Brahmanism and personal propriety and image in their flagrant and personally volatile activities and socially provocative songs and poems. Do I mean that each of these Saints, or great initiates, didn't finally arrive at a condition where these normal challenges to life, limb and personal image were consumed in the unitive fire of their merger with God? No, I don't. But what of the seemingly endless stages of sadhana that preceded this final union? they all had to contend with their own pass-nots of defying the conventions of society and self protection by taking on the harsh dictates of a surrender that was almost "artificial" in it's ritualistic rigor. To become a Buddha in one life, as Milarepa and Naropa attempted, or to attempt merger in their chosen form of the diety as Rabia, Mira and Lalli did, automatically entailed accepting and acting out impossible dictates from the point of view of normal integrative life. To turn to the dictates of representing Jesus without thought of food or clothing or personal welfare is yet another of these Karma intensifying demands that paradoxically, finally, bring a saint's or great disciple's personal karma to an end lifetimes before it could have reached it's natural conclusion. The rest of us accept as much of the discipline as we can, in an ongoing if sometimes painful evaluation of our personal dedication and possibilities. We try and dedicate "tomorrow" to the Lord, or the "Reality"; we try and accept and forgive the animosity that life puts in our way, even if we are unable to provoke further retaliation by "turning the other cheek". It seems likely to me that not many of us in these forums are up to this kind of dedication either, although we fill up an a good measure of our attention with spiritual development, or at least thoughts about spiritual development. To me it seems good to understand as much of the truth, the admittedly relative truth, as we can. Ultimately, I believe, though I can't prove it, that this kind of mental preparation and sadhana will bring us, in this life of the next, into the company of one who can give us the actual experience of merger, or nonduality, or God. But it is important to realize that his/her demands will surely entail just as much anxiety provoking thought and activity as the examples the Rev Charles has just quoted us, and which I've amplified with examples from other traditions. yours in the bonds, eric , "Rev Charles T Rush" <ctrush@b...> wrote: > I don't usually comment, but this week I thought I might ask for help. I'm > preaching this Sunday on anxiety and it's ongoing resolution. The title is > "peace in the midst of the storm". The texts are Mt. 6:25-34 and Mk. > 4:35-41. In the first one Jesus says 'do not worry about what you shall eat > or what you shall wear' for God will take care of you. In the second, a > storm comes up, all the disciples freak out, and Jesus awakens to calm it > and suggest that we not let anxiety rule us. > > I am interested in making some connections in an inter-religious way between > Christianity and eastern traditions. It seems to me that anxiety is a nearly > universal spiritual problem that is addressed in quite a few profound ways. > > If you would have a comment or could point me towards something to read, I > would appreciate it greatly. > > Rev. Charles Rush > Christ Church > Summit, NJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2001 Report Share Posted October 24, 2001 , "Rev Charles T Rush" <ctrush@b...> wrote: > I don't usually comment, but this week I thought I might ask for help. I'm > preaching this Sunday on anxiety and it's ongoing resolution. The title is > "peace in the midst of the storm". The texts are Mt. 6:25-34 and Mk. > 4:35-41. In the first one Jesus says 'do not worry about what you shall eat > or what you shall wear' for God will take care of you. In the second, a > storm comes up, all the disciples freak out, and Jesus awakens to calm it > and suggest that we not let anxiety rule us. > > I am interested in making some connections in an inter-religious way between > Christianity and eastern traditions. It seems to me that anxiety is a nearly > universal spiritual problem that is addressed in quite a few profound ways. > > If you would have a comment or could point me towards something to read, I > would appreciate it greatly. > > Rev. Charles Rush > Christ Church > Summit, NJ Hi Charles... How wonderful to see you here, and what a great sermon this will be... wish I was there to hear it. Forgive me for not giving you an eastern tradition, but I was drawn to reply to you with my own thoughts on anxiety. Remember that beautiful poem "Footprints in the Sand?" One night I dreamed I was walking Along the beach with the Lord. Many scenes from my life flashed across the sky. In each scene I noticed footprints in the sand. Sometimes there were two sets of footprints. Other times there were one set of footprints. This bothered me because I noticed that During the low periods of my life when I was Suffering from anguish, sorrow, or defeat, I could see only one set of footprints, So I said to the Lord, "You promised me, Lord, that if I followed You, You would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods Of my life there have only been One set of prints in the sand. Why, When I have needed You most, You have not been there for me?" The Lord replied, "The times when you have seen only one set of footprints Is when I carried you." By Mary Stevenson We seem to think when God is actually carrying us that he abandoned us and we feel totally separated from him. We've lost faith that He is always with us, wherever we go, whatever we do! We've forgotten what it feels like to be carried by God. It feels like anxiety. Much Love, xxxtg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2001 Report Share Posted October 24, 2001 Hi Reverend: There are quite a few sermons in the archives of the ND lists. Each time I write a message and post it I am aware a number of people may read it. All of them are really smart. :]] The anxiety of looking like a fool to others in a post would not be as bad as the anxiety of standing in a pulpit wanting to say something cogent about anxiety itself. Anxiety is a runaway mind, fear based thoughts feeding themselves in a spiral of increasing mentation. Control and calmness is needed. Yoga teaches us to discriminate in our thoughts and constrain our minds. The different yogas are all designed to do just that; hatha yoga helps us purify the body, bhakti yoga has us give our worries to God sometimes through the guru or embodiment of God, raja yoga teaches us to understand the mind in order to constrain it, and jnani yoga teaches us to perceive the mind by self/not-self discrimination. The internet has plenty of information on all these. If you are experiencing any anxiety I am sure it is nothing compared to the disciples in a raging storm on a leaky boat. Eminent death may produce something more than the garden variety of anxious mentation, not to mention that their beloved master may die and be taken from them. To remain calm in that storm would be an act of God. I love to preach, Bobby G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2001 Report Share Posted October 24, 2001 Rev Charles T Rush [ctrush] I don't usually comment, but this week I thought I might ask for help. I'm preaching this Sunday on anxiety and it's ongoing resolution. The title is "peace in the midst of the storm". The texts are Mt. 6:25-34 and Mk. 4:35-41. In the first one Jesus says 'do not worry about what you shall eat or what you shall wear' for God will take care of you. In the second, a storm comes up, all the disciples freak out, and Jesus awakens to calm it and suggest that we not let anxiety rule us. I am interested in making some connections in an inter-religious way between Christianity and eastern traditions. It seems to me that anxiety is a nearly universal spiritual problem that is addressed in quite a few profound ways. If you would have a comment or could point me towards something to read, I would appreciate it greatly. Rev. Charles Rush Christ Church Summit, NJ *********************************** Welcome to the Sangha Reverend Charles. Christianity and many eastern traditions emphasize the value of devotion. Devotion to the Lord. Did Jesus say (or perhaps it is said by someone else in the Bible), "Love your God with all your heart, and mind, and soul." That is similar to the Hindu devotional traditions. Anxiety and fear stemming from uncertainty seem to be a part of the human condition. For us ordinary people, the scriptures offer much solace. Also many Christian saints and the sages in other religions have exemplified that love for God. Meditating on the examples of the saints and devotees is very uplifting. Being in company of spiritual people is comforting. There are many writings that look at similarity between the Judea-Christian traditions and the eastern traditions. Are you familiar with them? Swami Yogananda made many comparisons between the Bible and the eastern traditions. Have you read the "Autobiography of a Yogi?" It may be a good place to start, but there are many others as well. It depends on one's predispositions. Love to all Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2001 Report Share Posted October 24, 2001 Matthew 14:24-33 27 Be of good cheer; It is I; be not afraid. Christianity is an eastern tradition. Rev Charles T Rush wrote: I don't usually comment, but this week I thought I might ask for help. I'm preaching this Sunday on anxiety and it's ongoing resolution. The title is "peace in the midst of the storm". The texts are Mt. 6:25-34 and Mk. 4:35-41. In the first one Jesus says 'do not worry about what you shall eat or what you shall wear' for God will take care of you. In the second, a storm comes up, all the disciples freak out, and Jesus awakens to calm it and suggest that we not let anxiety rule us. I am interested in making some connections in an inter-religious way between Christianity and eastern traditions. It seems to me that anxiety is a nearly universal spiritual problem that is addressed in quite a few profound ways. If you would have a comment or could point me towards something to read, I would appreciate it greatly. Rev. Charles Rush Christ Church Summit, NJ ------------------------ Sponsor ---------------------~--> Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://us.click./d49MCB/3WDDAA/ySSFAA/bpSolB/TM ---~-> /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2001 Report Share Posted October 25, 2001 Dear Eric -- Nice to hear from you -- thanks for your informative comments. Just to share a personal response, and not proposing that someone else should adopt this view: I am not trying to emulate someone else. I am not conceptualizing certain people as saints whom I want to be like, or whom I think have acheived something that other people should aspire to. Not that there is anything wrong with someone doing that -- if such a view appeals to you, then this must be the appropriate conceptualization and activity for you. I see "this one" as not like any other, not something to be emulated, not an outcome of a process of either discipline or non-discipline. "This one" is not represented by a human form of a particular sort, who went through certain hardships and turned out a certain way. It is tempting to take a human form as a representation of truth and reality. At the same time, we set ourselves up for continuing division by idealizing people we've conceptualized as "saints" or "realized". We set up the division of the object out there (e.g. Jesus, Muktananda, Hallaj, whoever) and the subject who observes them and thinks they must be "realized". We dichotomize "where we are" and "where we think we will be", or "who they are" and "who I am", or "realized" and "non-realized", and so on. These divisions are no more or less real than any other conceptual divisions that preoccupy the "minds of humans" ... What is undivided has never been presented in these kinds of human images and concepts about "spirituality" ... Yet *this* is never absent. Even while humans make endless comparisions and set up all kinds of goals to achieve, the unattainable and undivided One has never been "chopped up" ... What is it not to be a someone, not a something, not a human being, that is, nowhere to be found in the content of "the mind of the human being"? It is not to be a saint, not to be a realized person, not to have attained an enlightenment. Dan --- EBlackstead wrote: > Rev Charles, Dan, Jody & Friends, > > 1st, I agree with all the various insights quoted > above, but would > like to add an observation of my own that has > developed over the > years since my original involvment with the demands > of a Guru, in my > case, Baba Muktananda. As it refers to effects that > tend to > accompagny "serious" sadhana, or the conscious > acceptance of the > results of ultimate or penultimate initiation, it > may not have much > value for Rev Charles, with his obvious > responsibility to craft > something of more general value for his > parishioners. > > All sadhanas, in my observation, contain demands > that both point to a > position as it would be experienced if one were at > the point > of "cause", or final Enlightenment, as well as > serving as an exercize > in the expression of one's commitment in the face of > being subject to > the increasing pressure of one's karma (usually > negative) that > immersion in serious sadhana always brings in it's > wake. > > Examples of this rigorous discipline can be found > not only in the > quote from Jesus about anxiety, which the disciple > will experience in > any case, but also in his admonition to be as the > "lilies in the > fields. who toil not, etc. We are not "the lilies in > the fields", nor > even like them in our ability to sustain nourishment > by merely > passively existing, nor can our imitation of their > example serve us > without also serving up a healthy dollop of this > same anxiety that > wse are urged to give up. "Turn the other cheek" > falls into this same > category. It suggests an enlightened response, but > it is also an > extremely unreasonable and anxiety provoking > challenge to the > personal needs of a realistic person. It takes a > position on negative > karma ( the original confrontation ) and then, ups > the ante, so to > speak. > > It's my firm belief, my findings, really, that all > intense "short > paths" contain self contradictory demands like > these. Just consider > the trials of Naropa or Milarepa in the Tibetan > Tantric tradition. > Extreme disciples, but also extreme "achievers" or > saints, have > always faced these kinds of direct challenge to the > normal need to > protect and nourish the personal existence. > > In Sufism, we can look to any number of renunciates > like Hallaj with > his insistence on "an al Haq", that I am the reality > (Allah), in the > face of mercilessly Dualistic jurists and Mullahs > (who subsequently > crucified him), or Rabia's powerful, but equally > dangerous and > provocative statements of Monism in the face of both > sexist and > dualist leaders of the Islamic faith. In that > ultimately sexist > society, she was given to point out in answer to one > challenge about > her conduct in the face of men, her "superiors", > that in the > intensity of her belief in Islam, she saw no "men", > but rather all > were women in the presence of Allah. She has been > handed down to us > by this most extreme expression of Dualistic sexism > (the Islamic > tradition), as a woman who personified God's harsh > judgments of the > male saints who frequented her company in spite of > the prevailing > harsh codes of conduct to which they, as well as > she, were subject. > Amazingly, she lived in Mecca and freely criticized > the greatest > saints of her age. > > Mirabhai and Lalleshvar in the Indian tradition were > equally > unmindful both of their personal images and welfare, > as well as the > excruciating anxiety their conduct in affirming the > absolute > ascendance of God and his disregard of "normal" > conduct must have > cost them. They contravened the rigid conventions of > marriage, > Brahmanism and personal propriety and image in their > flagrant and > personally volatile activities and socially > provocative songs and > poems. > > Do I mean that each of these Saints, or great > initiates, didn't > finally arrive at a condition where these normal > challenges to life, > limb and personal image were consumed in the unitive > fire of their > merger with God? No, I don't. But what of the > seemingly endless > stages of sadhana that preceded this final union? > they all had to > contend with their own pass-nots of defying the > conventions of > society and self protection by taking on the harsh > dictates of a > surrender that was almost "artificial" in it's > ritualistic rigor. > > To become a Buddha in one life, as Milarepa and > Naropa attempted, or > to attempt merger in their chosen form of the diety > as Rabia, Mira > and Lalli did, automatically entailed accepting and > acting out > impossible dictates from the point of view of normal > integrative > life. > > To turn to the dictates of representing Jesus > without thought of food > or clothing or personal welfare is yet another of > these Karma > intensifying demands that paradoxically, finally, > bring a saint's or > great disciple's personal karma to an end lifetimes > before it could > have reached it's natural conclusion. > > The rest of us accept as much of the discipline as > we can, in an > ongoing if sometimes painful evaluation of our > personal dedication > and possibilities. We try and dedicate "tomorrow" to > the Lord, or > the "Reality"; we try and accept and forgive the > animosity that life > puts in our way, even if we are unable to provoke > further retaliation > by "turning the other cheek". > > It seems likely to me that not many of us in these > forums are up to > this kind of dedication either, although we fill up > an a good measure > of our attention with spiritual development, or at > least thoughts > about spiritual development. > > To me it seems good to understand as much of the > truth, the > admittedly relative truth, as we can. Ultimately, I > believe, though I > can't prove it, that this kind of mental preparation > and sadhana will > bring us, in this life of the next, into the company > of one who can > give us the actual experience of merger, or > nonduality, or God. But > it is important to realize that his/her demands will > surely entail > just as much anxiety provoking thought and activity > as the examples > the Rev Charles has just quoted us, and which I've > amplified with > examples from other traditions. > > yours in the bonds, > eric > > > , "Rev Charles T Rush" > <ctrush@b...> wrote: > > I don't usually comment, but this week I thought I > might ask for > === message truncated === Make a great connection at Personals. http://personals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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