Guest guest Posted October 28, 2001 Report Share Posted October 28, 2001 It is often said that if one simply stops the seeking, the wanting, Realization will happen. It might be true if the seeking stops spontaneously and the mind consciously loses its identity into its Source. I wonder whether one can just give up seeking and wanting Realization. Probably one cannot give up wanting any "want" until the wanting has waned. One can certainly concentrate on wanting "total and complete blissful surrender." Perhaps that is helpful. The fundamental issue is the "wanting." Surrender happens when the wanting has waned or has been suspended, or one simply has become completely indifferent to all wanting. In other words, one has become "wanted out". There is a Gate to the Kingdom of Heaven. To approach this Gate, one must be a seeker. But the Gate does not open to seekers. And seeking cannot be given up by will or effort. It happens when you have been waiting and waiting and waiting. Waiting can be a form of doing also. Then it is a long wait. You might be doing anything. Meditation, Yoga, Pranayama, etc. These are all essentially forms of waiting. And waiting can be helpful. It tires you out. It is Grace that finally makes us so indifferent to any "seeking" or "wanting", that we forget what we had wanted, why we had wanted it, and what we had been waiting for. Here and Now the Primal Being Reveals It Self as Eternal, as the very Core of our existence, being Existence It Self. It is the Now-ness, the Here-ness, Ever new, the perpetual Silence of fullness and Self-fulfillment. To enter the Kingdom of Heaven one must be completely naked and bereft of all things. Seekers can approach the Gate but cannot enter. There is no path to this entrance because there is no where else to go. It is not to be found in the future in some other place. There is no future and there is no other place separate from Here and Now. Self can only be known in the Present because It Is ItSelf the Present. It Is the Total Presence. Love to all Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2001 Report Share Posted October 28, 2001 Thanks Tg, you made me chuckle, then delivered your wise punch-line! love eric. , "Harsha" <harsha-hkl@h...> wrote: > It is often said that if one simply stops the seeking, the wanting, > Realization will happen. It might be true if the seeking stops spontaneously and the mind consciously loses its identity into its Source. > I wonder whether one can just give up seeking and wanting Realization. > > Probably one cannot give up wanting any "want" until the wanting has waned. One can certainly concentrate on wanting "total and complete blissful surrender." Perhaps that is helpful. The fundamental issue is the "wanting." Surrender happens when the wanting has waned or has been suspended, or one simply has become completely indifferent to all wanting. In other words, one has become "wanted out". > > There is a Gate to the Kingdom of Heaven. To approach this Gate, one must be a seeker. But the Gate does not open to seekers. And seeking cannot be given up by will or effort. > > It happens when you have been waiting and waiting and waiting. Waiting can be a form of doing also. Then it is a long wait. You might be doing anything. Meditation, Yoga, Pranayama, etc. These are all essentially forms of waiting. And waiting can be helpful. It tires you out. It is Grace that finally makes us so indifferent to any "seeking" or "wanting", that we forget what we had wanted, why we had wanted it, and what we had been waiting for. Here and Now the Primal Being Reveals It Self as Eternal, as the very Core of our existence, being Existence It Self. It is the Now-ness, the Here- ness, Ever new, the perpetual Silence of fullness and Self- fulfillment. > > To enter the Kingdom of Heaven one must be completely naked and bereft of all things. Seekers can approach the Gate but cannot enter. > There is no path to this entrance because there is no where else to go. It is not to be found in the future in some other place. There is no future and there is no other place separate from Here and Now. Self can only be known in the Present because It Is ItSelf the Present. > > It Is the Total Presence. > > Love to all > Harsha Hi Harsha & All... Beautiful, beautiful words! They made my heart sing. If you don't mind, may I reinterpret a few things in my own way? I know for me, I took many things said/written literally. ie. : "Surrender happens when the wanting has waned or has been suspended, or one simply has become completely indifferent to all wanting.In other words, one has become "wanted out"." If I had read this, I would have thought I had to stop 'wanting' and/or stop 'seeking' realization. Which is true! But I couldn't stop wanting or seeking, no matter what I tried! It was truly an impossibility. I finally realized I was wanting and seeking the wrong thing. It wasn't realization after all. I mean, it was, but in a different way. And of course, this was my particular path, not everyone's. Or maybe it is. I don't know. Although one must seek God/realization with all their heart and soul, how does one just stop at the gate of this journey? Sounds impossible! We take this long journey. Finally we get at the gate. And we aren't supposed to knock? ("LET ME IN! LET ME IN!") (?) Didn't make sense to me. It didn't matter how long I (symbollically) screamed those words, God wasn't answering the door. "Sit and wait", God finally said from the other side of the door. I couldn't believe He asked me to wait! The nerve of Him! Who does he think He is, God? :-) I asked, "I beg your pardon?" "That's right," He said. "What's right? I have no idea what the heck you are talking about." I said. "You must beg for my pardon", the Big Guy said. "Are you nuts? Are you saying I must beg now for your pardon? Well that's just dumb. I mean, that's a really dumb rule. I'm *here* now and you want me to wait and you want me to beg for your pardon? Why do I have to wait? Why do I have to beg? What is it I must sit and wait for and beg for? What did I do that was so wrong that I need to be pardoned for?" I innocently asked while He ignored my ramblings. "Okay, okay, I'll beg. Pardon me! Pardon me! Puhhhhlease pardon me, for whatever I did! Just let me in!" I sincerely begged. "No, you bloomin' idiot. You don't beg for yourself. You are already *here*. There is no gate!" He replied. "Well, duh, I hear You, but I don't see You, so apparently there is a gate for me to enter in order to realize You. And no one else is here but me. I mean, like, I'm the first one here. I don't see anyone else. Who or what do I beg for? What are you talking about? You say I'm *here*! Let me in!" I begged. "Go away and come back when you are ready", God said vehemently. "You can be such a jerk! I AM READY!!! I AM PEACEFUL. I AM CALM! I LOVE YOU! LET ME IN THIS INSTANT!" I screamed. (No answer). <sigh> ***************** Okay, the Big Guy can't be bullied, no matter how sincere I am. There must be a better way! (Opening my mind once again as I sit at the socalled 'no gates here' in the lotus position, fingers positioned perfectly). Ahhhhh Bliss. Peace. Calm. But I still can't see or hear a dang thing that looks like God. I sure feel at peace though. :-) The cellular phone in my purse rings. I happily answer. "Hi Tg! How you doing?" my good friend asks. "Great! What's up?" I reply. "Not much. Just called to tell you what all you need in your life. You need to be doing this. You need to be doing that. And don't forget to do those other things you need be doing, too. You really need to be doing all these things or you aren't going to get anywhere. You are never going to do anything if you don't change your ways," my well-meaning spiritual friend lectured. I thought, "How dare she lecture me and tell me what I need! I'm *here* and she's not! What a loser." But instead I said, "Thanks for reminding me. I will. Gotta go. Bye." as I slammed the phone down, totally fragmented now and no longer at peace. "How dare she interrupt my peace!" I yelled at God while I burst into tears. "God, you still there ignoring me? I don't know why I can't stop crying now. Prior to this phone call, I was feeling great . Ya' know, all that blissful peaceful stuff I'm supposed to be feeling." I explained. "And in just a few minutes, talking to a well-meaning, albeit frustrating know-it-all, friend, my whole blissful world was shattered. I don't understand what happened! I don't understand! How can this happen?" I cried. God replies and says nothing. "What in the world is happening? Why am I feeling so unpeaceful! now? How can one person fragment me so quickly? What is going on here?" God replies and says nothing again. "Ya' know, I've been trying so hard. I've filled my mind with your thoughts every moment of the day. I meditate a lot. I study all the time. Om Nama Shivaya rings through my mind constantly. I even do that wierd energy dance ChiGung or whatever it is called, to balance me, which I feel totally stupid doing, but I do it anyway." as I explained my sacrifices to Him. "Maybe you want me to quit smoking and lose weight and become a vegetarian, too? Maybe I haven't done enough? Maybe I'm supposed to be kinder, more patient, or more assertive and speak my mind? Ya' know I'm basically a really nice person, but maybe that's not enough for you?" I asked defiantly. Getting tired of being ignored, I continue crying, "Why oh why God? What is it You want from me? I'll do anything!" He finally speaks up. "Anything?" "Yes! You name it, I'll do it! I'll give away everything I have. I'll leave my family, my friends. I'll study and meditate 24 hours a day instead of my usual six hours a day. I'll stop smoking even! Just tell me what you want and I don't care what it is, I'll do it! I said excitedly at the thought that there was something I could do. God said, "Do you think you can bring your well-meaning friend with you *here*?" "Who..... her?" I doubted, thinking 'no way'. "Yes, her." He said matter-of-factly. "Ah, geez God, anything but that. That seems impossible! There is no way she would do all the things I've done to get this far, much less listen to me to tell her to do these things. How about if I meditate longer, or go to a cave and be by myself with you for awhile?" I offered. "No", the obstinate Big Guy said, "This is all I want. For you to bring her *here*." "How in the world do I do that?" I dumbfoundedly asked, sinking deeper into oblivion. God sighs. I ponder his request for awhile. "Okay", I say as I surrender to his request. "If you want me to bring her *here*, I will bring her. I don't know how I'm going to do that, so I'm going to need your help. Will you help me?" I asked. "Of course," He replied. "As you know, this friend is impossible at times. She totally frustrates me, telling me what to do for myself and for her, breaking up my peace, treating me like I'm not as good as her," I said. "If I am to bring her *here*, you are going to have to allow me to see her differently, because the way I see her now, there is no way she will ever come with me. She thinks she is better than me spiritually, mentally, and physically and won't listen to a word I say. For all I know, she is already *here* and I just think she isn't, just as she thinks I'm not *here*, too"." I explained. "Right." God said. "What?! Hmmmmm.... You mean that is a possibility? That she is already *here*, but I don't know it? I mean that is a real possibility, since I know I am *here*.... you said so yourself... and I think she is not *here*? I thought outloud. "Right." God said. "How cool is that?!!" I exclaimed excitedly. "Very cool", He replied. "So this 'begging for your pardon' you spoke of earlier really meant begging you for her pardon?" I asked. "Exactly." He replied. "Excuse me a minute, and let me get my handy pocket dictionary out of my purse to see what pardon means. 'To release from further punishment.' Hmmmm. Apparently I'm punishing her by seeing she is possibly not *here* now?" I sincerely ask. "Yes." God said. "You mean to tell me that because I'm not seeing her *here*, when for all I know, which is practically nothing, I am punishing her?" I asked. "Yes", God sighs, seemingly a little frustrated that I have to go over each and every detail. "Alrightey then. Let's go to it! Help me to see she is already *here*. Help me to see her differently! I want nothing more than to see her differently! I am soooo willing! That is all I want! Puhhhhlease, Puhhhhlease! I want to see her! I mean... really see her where she is right now! I want to see we are both in the same place, *here* now! Oh my, we cannot come *here* alone, can we, Oh Holy Judge? I can't be *here* and she can't be *there* without having some sort of separation!" I said with such excitement. And in the twinkling of an eye... Love,xxxtg ------------------------ Sponsor ---------------------~--> Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial Click Here! ---~-> /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. 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Guest guest Posted October 28, 2001 Report Share Posted October 28, 2001 Ah, teegee, I'm so glad you're *here*!! Love, Holly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2001 Report Share Posted October 28, 2001 , "Harsha" <harsha-hkl@h...> wrote: > It is often said that if one simply stops the seeking, the wanting, > Realization will happen. It might be true if the seeking stops spontaneously and the mind consciously loses its identity into its Source. > I wonder whether one can just give up seeking and wanting Realization. > > Probably one cannot give up wanting any "want" until the wanting has waned. One can certainly concentrate on wanting "total and complete blissful surrender." Perhaps that is helpful. The fundamental issue is the "wanting." Surrender happens when the wanting has waned or has been suspended, or one simply has become completely indifferent to all wanting. In other words, one has become "wanted out". > > There is a Gate to the Kingdom of Heaven. To approach this Gate, one must be a seeker. But the Gate does not open to seekers. And seeking cannot be given up by will or effort. > > It happens when you have been waiting and waiting and waiting. Waiting can be a form of doing also. Then it is a long wait. You might be doing anything. Meditation, Yoga, Pranayama, etc. These are all essentially forms of waiting. And waiting can be helpful. It tires you out. It is Grace that finally makes us so indifferent to any "seeking" or "wanting", that we forget what we had wanted, why we had wanted it, and what we had been waiting for. Here and Now the Primal Being Reveals It Self as Eternal, as the very Core of our existence, being Existence It Self. It is the Now-ness, the Here- ness, Ever new, the perpetual Silence of fullness and Self- fulfillment. > > To enter the Kingdom of Heaven one must be completely naked and bereft of all things. Seekers can approach the Gate but cannot enter. > There is no path to this entrance because there is no where else to go. It is not to be found in the future in some other place. There is no future and there is no other place separate from Here and Now. Self can only be known in the Present because It Is ItSelf the Present. > > It Is the Total Presence. > > Love to all > Harsha Hi Harsha & All... Beautiful, beautiful words! They made my heart sing. If you don't mind, may I reinterpret a few things in my own way? I know for me, I took many things said/written literally. ie. : "Surrender happens when the wanting has waned or has been suspended, or one simply has become completely indifferent to all wanting.In other words, one has become "wanted out"." If I had read this, I would have thought I had to stop 'wanting' and/or stop 'seeking' realization. Which is true! But I couldn't stop wanting or seeking, no matter what I tried! It was truly an impossibility. I finally realized I was wanting and seeking the wrong thing. It wasn't realization after all. I mean, it was, but in a different way. And of course, this was my particular path, not everyone's. Or maybe it is. I don't know. Although one must seek God/realization with all their heart and soul, how does one just stop at the gate of this journey? Sounds impossible! We take this long journey. Finally we get at the gate. And we aren't supposed to knock? ("LET ME IN! LET ME IN!") (?) Didn't make sense to me. It didn't matter how long I (symbollically) screamed those words, God wasn't answering the door. "Sit and wait", God finally said from the other side of the door. I couldn't believe He asked me to wait! The nerve of Him! Who does he think He is, God? :-) I asked, "I beg your pardon?" "That's right," He said. "What's right? I have no idea what the heck you are talking about." I said. "You must beg for my pardon", the Big Guy said. "Are you nuts? Are you saying I must beg now for your pardon? Well that's just dumb. I mean, that's a really dumb rule. I'm *here* now and you want me to wait and you want me to beg for your pardon? Why do I have to wait? Why do I have to beg? What is it I must sit and wait for and beg for? What did I do that was so wrong that I need to be pardoned for?" I innocently asked while He ignored my ramblings. "Okay, okay, I'll beg. Pardon me! Pardon me! Puhhhhlease pardon me, for whatever I did! Just let me in!" I sincerely begged. "No, you bloomin' idiot. You don't beg for yourself. You are already *here*. There is no gate!" He replied. "Well, duh, I hear You, but I don't see You, so apparently there is a gate for me to enter in order to realize You. And no one else is here but me. I mean, like, I'm the first one here. I don't see anyone else. Who or what do I beg for? What are you talking about? You say I'm *here*! Let me in!" I begged. "Go away and come back when you are ready", God said vehemently. "You can be such a jerk! I AM READY!!! I AM PEACEFUL. I AM CALM! I LOVE YOU! LET ME IN THIS INSTANT!" I screamed. (No answer). <sigh> ***************** Okay, the Big Guy can't be bullied, no matter how sincere I am. There must be a better way! (Opening my mind once again as I sit at the socalled 'no gates here' in the lotus position, fingers positioned perfectly). Ahhhhh Bliss. Peace. Calm. But I still can't see or hear a dang thing that looks like God. I sure feel at peace though. :-) The cellular phone in my purse rings. I happily answer. "Hi Tg! How you doing?" my good friend asks. "Great! What's up?" I reply. "Not much. Just called to tell you what all you need in your life. You need to be doing this. You need to be doing that. And don't forget to do those other things you need be doing, too. You really need to be doing all these things or you aren't going to get anywhere. You are never going to do anything if you don't change your ways," my well-meaning spiritual friend lectured. I thought, "How dare she lecture me and tell me what I need! I'm *here* and she's not! What a loser." But instead I said, "Thanks for reminding me. I will. Gotta go. Bye." as I slammed the phone down, totally fragmented now and no longer at peace. "How dare she interrupt my peace!" I yelled at God while I burst into tears. "God, you still there ignoring me? I don't know why I can't stop crying now. Prior to this phone call, I was feeling great . Ya' know, all that blissful peaceful stuff I'm supposed to be feeling." I explained. "And in just a few minutes, talking to a well-meaning, albeit frustrating know-it-all, friend, my whole blissful world was shattered. I don't understand what happened! I don't understand! How can this happen?" I cried. God replies and says nothing. "What in the world is happening? Why am I feeling so unpeaceful! now? How can one person fragment me so quickly? What is going on here?" God replies and says nothing again. "Ya' know, I've been trying so hard. I've filled my mind with your thoughts every moment of the day. I meditate a lot. I study all the time. Om Nama Shivaya rings through my mind constantly. I even do that wierd energy dance ChiGung or whatever it is called, to balance me, which I feel totally stupid doing, but I do it anyway." as I explained my sacrifices to Him. "Maybe you want me to quit smoking and lose weight and become a vegetarian, too? Maybe I haven't done enough? Maybe I'm supposed to be kinder, more patient, or more assertive and speak my mind? Ya' know I'm basically a really nice person, but maybe that's not enough for you?" I asked defiantly. Getting tired of being ignored, I continue crying, "Why oh why God? What is it You want from me? I'll do anything!" He finally speaks up. "Anything?" "Yes! You name it, I'll do it! I'll give away everything I have. I'll leave my family, my friends. I'll study and meditate 24 hours a day instead of my usual six hours a day. I'll stop smoking even! Just tell me what you want and I don't care what it is, I'll do it! I said excitedly at the thought that there was something I could do. God said, "Do you think you can bring your well-meaning friend with you *here*?" "Who..... her?" I doubted, thinking 'no way'. "Yes, her." He said matter-of-factly. "Ah, geez God, anything but that. That seems impossible! There is no way she would do all the things I've done to get this far, much less listen to me to tell her to do these things. How about if I meditate longer, or go to a cave and be by myself with you for awhile?" I offered. "No", the obstinate Big Guy said, "This is all I want. For you to bring her *here*." "How in the world do I do that?" I dumbfoundedly asked, sinking deeper into oblivion. God sighs. I ponder his request for awhile. "Okay", I say as I surrender to his request. "If you want me to bring her *here*, I will bring her. I don't know how I'm going to do that, so I'm going to need your help. Will you help me?" I asked. "Of course," He replied. "As you know, this friend is impossible at times. She totally frustrates me, telling me what to do for myself and for her, breaking up my peace, treating me like I'm not as good as her," I said. "If I am to bring her *here*, you are going to have to allow me to see her differently, because the way I see her now, there is no way she will ever come with me. She thinks she is better than me spiritually, mentally, and physically and won't listen to a word I say. For all I know, she is already *here* and I just think she isn't, just as she thinks I'm not *here*, too"." I explained. "Right." God said. "What?! Hmmmmm.... You mean that is a possibility? That she is already *here*, but I don't know it? I mean that is a real possibility, since I know I am *here*.... you said so yourself... and I think she is not *here*? I thought outloud. "Right." God said. "How cool is that?!!" I exclaimed excitedly. "Very cool", He replied. "So this 'begging for your pardon' you spoke of earlier really meant begging you for her pardon?" I asked. "Exactly." He replied. "Excuse me a minute, and let me get my handy pocket dictionary out of my purse to see what pardon means. 'To release from further punishment.' Hmmmm. Apparently I'm punishing her by seeing she is possibly not *here* now?" I sincerely ask. "Yes." God said. "You mean to tell me that because I'm not seeing her *here*, when for all I know, which is practically nothing, I am punishing her?" I asked. "Yes", God sighs, seemingly a little frustrated that I have to go over each and every detail. "Alrightey then. Let's go to it! Help me to see she is already *here*. Help me to see her differently! I want nothing more than to see her differently! I am soooo willing! That is all I want! Puhhhhlease, Puhhhhlease! I want to see her! I mean... really see her where she is right now! I want to see we are both in the same place, *here* now! Oh my, we cannot come *here* alone, can we, Oh Holy Judge? I can't be *here* and she can't be *there* without having some sort of separation!" I said with such excitement. And in the twinkling of an eye... Love,xxxtg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2001 Report Share Posted October 28, 2001 Dear Harsha, Yes, one has to become "wanted out". Only when all desires have vanished, even that of realization, then it may happen. This is also the teaching of Ramana, because realization is nothing new to obtain. My understanding of this is only theoretically - sometimes with some very short idea of the truth. Do you speak from your own experience? May I ask that? Gabriele , "Harsha" <harsha-hkl@h...> wrote: > It is often said that if one simply stops the seeking, the wanting, > Realization will happen. It might be true if the seeking stops spontaneously > and the mind consciously loses its identity into its Source. > > I wonder whether one can just give up seeking and wanting Realization. > > Probably one cannot give up wanting any "want" until the wanting has waned. > One can certainly concentrate on wanting "total and complete blissful > surrender." Perhaps that is helpful. The fundamental issue is the > "wanting." Surrender happens when the wanting has waned or has been > suspended, or one simply has become completely indifferent to all wanting. > In other words, one has become "wanted out". > > There is a Gate to the Kingdom of Heaven. To approach this Gate, one must be > a seeker. But the Gate does not open to seekers. And seeking cannot be given > up by will or effort. > > It happens when you have been waiting and waiting and waiting. Waiting can > be a form of doing also. Then it is a long wait. You might be doing > anything. Meditation, Yoga, Pranayama, etc. These are all essentially forms > of waiting. And waiting can be helpful. It tires you out. It is Grace that > finally makes us so indifferent to any "seeking" or "wanting", that we > forget what we had wanted, why we had wanted it, and what we had been > waiting for. Here and Now the Primal Being Reveals It Self as Eternal, as > the very Core of our existence, being Existence It Self. It is the Now-ness, > the Here-ness, Ever new, the perpetual Silence of fullness and > Self-fulfillment. > > To enter the Kingdom of Heaven one must be completely naked and bereft of > all things. Seekers can approach the Gate but cannot enter. > > There is no path to this entrance because there is no where else to go. It > is not to be found in the future in some other place. There is no future and > there is no other place separate from Here and Now. Self can only be known > in the Present because It Is ItSelf the Present. > > It Is the Total Presence. > > Love to all > Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2001 Report Share Posted October 28, 2001 g.ebert [g.ebert] Sunday, October 28, 2001 3:59 PM Re: Silent Heart Dear Harsha, Yes, one has to become "wanted out". Only when all desires have vanished, even that of realization, then it may happen. This is also the teaching of Ramana, because realization is nothing new to obtain. My understanding of this is only theoretically - sometimes with some very short idea of the truth. Do you speak from your own experience? May I ask that? Gabriele ***************************** I am a devotee of the Sage of Arunachala, Gabriele, and speak from experience of the Heart. Because of my love for Sri Ramana and intimacy with Bhagavan's teachings through experience, I can understand and explain these. Other than that, I am a fairly ordinary person. Not saying that to be humble but stating the obvious. Obstacles were raised in my efforts to lose weight recently by presence of cookies at several social functions in my school. These cookies had cranberries and white chocolate embedded in them. The cookies challenged me to be disciplined. I ate the cookies to silence them because I did not wish to be continually challenged. Now I have come home and will make and drink some Chai to help the cookies go down further. Doing the laundry and washing dishes in-between cleaning the house. Love to all Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2001 Report Share Posted October 28, 2001 Dear Gabriele: For many years I read about 'not wanting' and 'desirelessness'. Last Friday night I was at the local hi school football game and 'had a moment'. I could stay in the moment if I did not want something, even the moment. For me that is what not wanting is. It is not the idea as a discipline but the crucial instruction to an errant mind to shut up. Love Bobby G. , g.ebert@g... wrote: > Dear Harsha, > Yes, one has to become "wanted out". Only when all desires have vanished, even that of realization, then it may happen. This is also the teaching of Ramana, because realization is nothing new to obtain. My understanding of this is only theoretically - sometimes with some very short idea of the truth. > Do you speak from your own experience? May I ask that? > Gabriele > > , "Harsha" <harsha-hkl@h...> wrote: > > It is often said that if one simply stops the seeking, the wanting, > > Realization will happen. It might be true if the seeking stops spontaneously > > and the mind consciously loses its identity into its Source. > > > > I wonder whether one can just give up seeking and wanting Realization. > > > > Probably one cannot give up wanting any "want" until the wanting has waned. > > One can certainly concentrate on wanting "total and complete blissful > > surrender." Perhaps that is helpful. The fundamental issue is the > > "wanting." Surrender happens when the wanting has waned or has been > > suspended, or one simply has become completely indifferent to all wanting. > > In other words, one has become "wanted out". > > > > There is a Gate to the Kingdom of Heaven. To approach this Gate, one must be > > a seeker. But the Gate does not open to seekers. And seeking cannot be given > > up by will or effort. > > > > It happens when you have been waiting and waiting and waiting. Waiting can > > be a form of doing also. Then it is a long wait. You might be doing > > anything. Meditation, Yoga, Pranayama, etc. These are all essentially forms > > of waiting. And waiting can be helpful. It tires you out. It is Grace that > > finally makes us so indifferent to any "seeking" or "wanting", that we > > forget what we had wanted, why we had wanted it, and what we had been > > waiting for. Here and Now the Primal Being Reveals It Self as Eternal, as > > the very Core of our existence, being Existence It Self. It is the Now-ness, > > the Here-ness, Ever new, the perpetual Silence of fullness and > > Self-fulfillment. > > > > To enter the Kingdom of Heaven one must be completely naked and bereft of > > all things. Seekers can approach the Gate but cannot enter. > > > > There is no path to this entrance because there is no where else to go. It > > is not to be found in the future in some other place. There is no future and > > there is no other place separate from Here and Now. Self can only be known > > in the Present because It Is ItSelf the Present. > > > > It Is the Total Presence. > > > > Love to all > > Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2001 Report Share Posted October 28, 2001 Greetings Harsha, and All; What wonderful observations you have made, observations which have reflected the perceptions of this one, Janak. It seems that wanting the wanting to stop is merely part of the continuum; but finally all that wanting becomes too exhausting to maintain and one can no longer be bothered with all the pushing and the grasping. Indeed, all the "spiritual practices" are fuelled by that wanting, and perhaps they serve only to entertain the mind and body awhile until awakening "happens." After all, it is the doing and the wanting that covers the Pure Self. It seems amazing that awakening DOES "happen." It is truly Grace alone. Awakening is not an arrival (er, where were those gates again?) but a "here-ness," an open-endedness in which there is no arrival nor departure. It seems, from my own story, that awakening comes not via technique, or even wanting, but from exhaustion. Even the seeking becomes too much, and everything is poured out to leave oneself as One Self, vast, silent, transparent. >From the Heart, ~ Janak. , "Harsha" <harsha-hkl@h...> wrote: > It is often said that if one simply stops the seeking, the wanting, > Realization will happen. It might be true if the seeking stops spontaneously > and the mind consciously loses its identity into its Source. > > I wonder whether one can just give up seeking and wanting Realization. > > Probably one cannot give up wanting any "want" until the wanting has waned. > One can certainly concentrate on wanting "total and complete blissful > surrender." Perhaps that is helpful. The fundamental issue is the > "wanting." Surrender happens when the wanting has waned or has been > suspended, or one simply has become completely indifferent to all wanting. > In other words, one has become "wanted out". > > There is a Gate to the Kingdom of Heaven. To approach this Gate, one must be > a seeker. But the Gate does not open to seekers. And seeking cannot be given > up by will or effort. > > It happens when you have been waiting and waiting and waiting. Waiting can > be a form of doing also. Then it is a long wait. You might be doing > anything. Meditation, Yoga, Pranayama, etc. These are all essentially forms > of waiting. And waiting can be helpful. It tires you out. It is Grace that > finally makes us so indifferent to any "seeking" or "wanting", that we > forget what we had wanted, why we had wanted it, and what we had been > waiting for. Here and Now the Primal Being Reveals It Self as Eternal, as > the very Core of our existence, being Existence It Self. It is the Now-ness, > the Here-ness, Ever new, the perpetual Silence of fullness and > Self-fulfillment. > > To enter the Kingdom of Heaven one must be completely naked and bereft of > all things. Seekers can approach the Gate but cannot enter. > > There is no path to this entrance because there is no where else to go. It > is not to be found in the future in some other place. There is no future and > there is no other place separate from Here and Now. Self can only be known > in the Present because It Is ItSelf the Present. > > It Is the Total Presence. > > Love to all > Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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