Nowhere To Turn

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

Lately, it feels like every road I contemplate traveling upon leads to

a dead end. My identity as a spiritual seeker is crumbling under the

realization that seeking is what creates the separation that I'm

trying to transcend. In fact, everything I "do" is useless, since

it's all predicated on perceiving myself as an individual doer,

which, in turn, creates separation. Even my lifelong love of truth is

crumbling, as I see the tension and duality that the pursuit of truth

engenders.

More and more, I feel totally helpless. And this helplessness is both

uncomfortable and a great relief. There is nowhere to go, nothing to

do, and no one to become. Years ago, when I first heard these words,

I tried to turn them into a spiritual practice, but now they are the

source of my seeing the futility of all spiritual practice.

On Thursday I was sitting in a doctor's office, waiting to pick-up

some pills, when I was overcome by the beauty and love present in

that very moment. I've experienced that sense of wonder and awe

before, in ordinary moments, joyful moments, fearful moments, and

devastating moments. And this last experience of it made me realize

that while this love, this presence, is always available, I'm not

always available to it. Of course, my mind immediately wanted to

figure out what I could "do" to become more available to it. But

along with that desire came the knowing that creating a process to

become more available to this presence, would only separate me

further from it.

There is nothing to do but watch with wonder the ever-changing, and

yet changeless, landscape of "what is."

Namaste,

Julie

[Guest guest]

Beautiful Julie, Thanks!

 

~~~

 

This is, because that is. Reality is the wholeness, OneDuality,

the UniVerse of what is.

 

As you say it is Beauty and Love. There is no path to it, it

abides as, and is, the Heart which is everywhere, all-ways.

 

Love,

James

 

 

, Julie Isaac <jei@m...> wrote:

> Hi All,

>

> Lately, it feels like every road I contemplate traveling upon leads

to a

> dead end. My identity as a spiritual seeker is crumbling under the

> realization that seeking is what creates the separation that I'm

trying to

> transcend. In fact, everything I "do" is useless, since it's all

predicated

> on perceiving myself as an individual doer, which, in turn, creates

> separation. Even my lifelong love of truth is crumbling, as I see

the

> tension and duality that the pursuit of truth engenders.

>

> More and more, I feel totally helpless. And this helplessness is

both

> uncomfortable and a great relief. There is nowhere to go, nothing to

do, and

> no one to become. Years ago, when I first heard these words, I tried

to turn

> them into a spiritual practice, but now they are the source of my

seeing the

> futility of all spiritual practice.

>

> On Thursday I was sitting in a doctor's office, waiting to pick-up

some

> pills, when I was overcome by the beauty and love present in that

very

> moment. I've experienced that sense of wonder and awe before, in

ordinary

> moments, joyful moments, fearful moments, and devastating moments.

And this

> last experience of it made me realize that while this love, this

presence,

> is always available, I'm not always available to it. Of course, my

mind

> immediately wanted to figure out what I could "do" to become more

available

> to it. But along with that desire came the knowing that creating a

process

> to become more available to this presence, would only separate me

further

> from it.

>

> There is nothing to do but watch with wonder the ever-changing, and

yet

> changeless, landscape of "what is."

>

> Namaste,

> Julie

[Guest guest]

When there is 'nowhere to turn'

there is the 'now-here'

[Guest guest]

, "james " <nisarga@c...> wrote:

 

This is, because that is. Reality is the wholeness, OneDuality,

> the UniVerse of what is.

>

> As you say it is Beauty and Love. There is no path to it, it

> abides as, and is, the Heart which is everywhere, all-ways.

>

 

Hi James,

 

Thank you for your response. I've never heard the term OneDuality before. I

like it. I recently read a post where oneness and duality were said to be

two sides of the same coin. It's such a relief not to have to solve or

overcome or transcend duality, but instead, to simply accept it as part of

the ebb and flow of what is.

 

Namaste,

Julie

[Guest guest]

, Julie Isaac <jei@m...> wrote:

> Hi All,

>

> Lately, it feels like every road I contemplate traveling upon leads

to a

> dead end. My identity as a spiritual seeker is crumbling under the

> realization that seeking is what creates the separation that I'm

trying to

> transcend. In fact, everything I "do" is useless, since it's all

predicated

> on perceiving myself as an individual doer, which, in turn, creates

> separation. Even my lifelong love of truth is crumbling, as I see

the

> tension and duality that the pursuit of truth engenders.

>

> More and more, I feel totally helpless. And this helplessness is

both

> uncomfortable and a great relief. There is nowhere to go, nothing

to do, and

> no one to become. Years ago, when I first heard these words, I

tried to turn

> them into a spiritual practice, but now they are the source of my

seeing the

> futility of all spiritual practice.

>

> On Thursday I was sitting in a doctor's office, waiting to pick-up

some

> pills, when I was overcome by the beauty and love present in that

very

> moment. I've experienced that sense of wonder and awe before, in

ordinary

> moments, joyful moments, fearful moments, and devastating moments.

And this

> last experience of it made me realize that while this love, this

presence,

> is always available, I'm not always available to it. Of course, my

mind

> immediately wanted to figure out what I could "do" to become more

available

> to it. But along with that desire came the knowing that creating a

process

> to become more available to this presence, would only separate me

further

> from it.

>

> There is nothing to do but watch with wonder the ever-changing, and

yet

> changeless, landscape of "what is."

>

> Namaste,

> Julie

 

This sounds beautiful. A few weeks back I was on the other side and

now on the nonduality road. Seems strange to be here and this cross-

over has triggered of a mind that keeps blabbering too much. And

after reading this message of yours I still wonder why we stand in

expectation of something even after understanding the crux of the

matter. No where to turn seems the only way. Thanks.

 

Love

Rashmi

[Guest guest]

Julie & Friends,

 

, Julie Isaac <jei@m...> wrote:

More and more, I feel totally helpless. And this helplessness is both

> uncomfortable and a great relief. There is nowhere to go, nothing

to do, and no one to become. Years ago, when I first heard these

words, I tried to turn them into a spiritual practice, but now they

are the source of my seeing the futility of all spiritual practice.

 

Julie, it might be good for you to remember that it is exactly your

spiritual practices that have made this formerly idealistic state

real for you. they are also capable of guiding you on to a new and

more valuable state, even if they do not seem capable right now of

initiating that process.

 

It's unfortunate that almost all of us, but especially those of us

who have never experienced the guidance and appropriate direction of

a Guru, or qualified spiritual guide, learn from books that

frequently are undigested compendiums of assorted "truths", often

gathered together without thought or appreciation of the fact that

many of them are self contridictory and clearly could only be

valuable if applied judiciously according to an understanding of the

stages of spiritual growth and knowledge of specifically where we

are at in our spiritual journey.

 

To illustrate, one teaching that suffers frequent abuse on these

forums would be "Fait'ce que vous voudriez", or believe in the Lord

and do what you like. We usually read this one as part of a self

comforting littany that it is all one, so we might as well do what we

want, or the frequently uttered "new" teaching that as no spiritual

practice can guarantee enlightenment, we might as well do what we

want and let enlightenment dawn on us naturally in it's own time.

 

Only experience can show us what absolute nonsense this teaching is,

until mirabile dictu, some seemingly "spontaneous" change takes place

in us, and all of a sudden, we realize that for us, it has all of a

sudden become "true". Of course, all the spiritual work and

discipline that we have practiced in this or some previous life

wouldn't have anything to do with the changes that have spontaneously

manifested for us, would they?

 

What is also not usually known or expressed when we read this

teaching is the disappointment, even depression, experienced by many

of the newly transformed when they realize that the spiritual goals

that they have dedicated their lives to cannot be brought on any

faster by either their previous practices which have brought them

this far, or by any extraordinary practices that they might now take

up.

 

I'm not saying that you've reached the state I'm describing here,

Julie, because there are many states that come over us that mimic

this one that are only temporary, even if they feel permanent.

 

So Julie, I suggest that you keep up with your practices if they

aren't too burdonsome, and you'll see in time whether there is any

necessity to continue. The chances are that "this too shall pass" is

the operative observation, and deepening your spiritual discipline

won't be a waste of your time. It's also worth observing that for

many people who reach the state mentioned above, spiritual practices

have become deeply satisfying. Another drawback to this condition, is

that some of the satisfaction is the knowledge that one is moving

forward rapidly. When it's realized that forward momentum is no

longer controlled or predicted by future practice, the enjoyment

taken in the "ambition" of practice falls off precipitously.

 

Yours in the bonds,

eric

[Guest guest]

Good message, Eric

 

Love you, Wim

 

 

 

_______________

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[Guest guest]

, EBlackstead@c... wrote:> To illustrate,

one teaching that suffers frequent abuse on these

> forums would be "Fait'ce que vous voudriez", or believe in the Lord

> and do what you like. We usually read this one as part of a self

> comforting littany that it is all one, so we might as well do what

we

> want, or the frequently uttered "new" teaching that as no spiritual

> practice can guarantee enlightenment, we might as well do what we

> want and let enlightenment dawn on us naturally in it's own time.

>

> Only experience can show us what absolute nonsense this teaching

is,

> until mirabile dictu, some seemingly "spontaneous" change takes

place

> in us, and all of a sudden, we realize that for us, it has all of a

> sudden become "true". Of course, all the spiritual work and

> discipline that we have practiced in this or some previous life

> wouldn't have anything to do with the changes that have

spontaneously

> manifested for us, would they?

 

Dear Eric:

 

I agree most heartily.

"That" is where ideas about enlightenment nullify the ability of the

mind to justify practice.

"This" is where practice leads and it can't be argued.

 

On the other hand though, that teaching makes a good point to people

who are ready for it. Enlightenment has to be what is and not

yearning for any principle called enlightenment, and so can be a

block.

I posted that Idea to a follower of someone who promotes the ideas

you mentioned, who will go unnamed, and said if your guru tells you

to believe that then that is the way to go. He wrote back that "so

and so" doesn't teach any "way".

It did not seem to me that this person was ready for that teaching

but I don't know the whole scoop.

There was a lot of talk about depression on that message board.

Your assessment seemed particularly accurate.

 

Love

Bobby G.

[Guest guest]

Hi Eric,

This post, more than any other I've written, has proven to be a

spiritual Rorshach test. On this list and others, I've gotten the

most wildly diverse responses. When I said these words to my teacher

at Satsang, her response was, "Wonderful." When I wrote them in an

introductory letter to a self-proclaimed awakened being (Don't ask

who!!), in order to join a non-duality discussion list, I received

the reply, "Don't take this personally, but you're much too full of

your own know-it-all bullshit for this list."

On a general spirituality list, someone assumed that I was going

through a crisis and encouraged me to be a survivor. Another tried to

teach me a "non-process" process to help me turn off my mind. Some

have identified with my words, some have been opened by them, and

others have shared their wisdom and joy in return.

I've looked at each response as a two-way mirror. While the mirror

most clearly reflects the sender's beliefs and experiences, I've also

carefully considered whether there was anything in a response that

mirrored some part of myself back to me which I would then need to

examine and address. This actually has had the effect of making me

look more closely at my own responses to the sharing of others, to

see what my responses reveal about my beliefs and conditioning.

Now, as for your post, I see very little of myself in it. However,

based on what was shared, I understand your assumptions. I'm very

aware of the Advaita Shuffle and the variations on that theme which

flourish in other teachings. My realization that spiritual practices

separate me from what is, isn't going to stop me from doing spiritual

practices. What it's done is to undermine my belief in the formula:

spiritual practices + time = enlightenment

It's changed my perception of myself and my actions, but it hasn't

changed my actions. It's more of a deep relaxation. I've actually had

many revelations of late, and the end result is usually the giving up

of a belief. What I do hasn't changed all that much.

To illustrate this, here is a portion of a post that I wrote to

another list recently, when I was sick.

****

I'm generally pretty healthy, but right now I'm dealing with some physical

problems. After seeing a doctor to get the ball rolling, I dealt with the

question, "to heal or not to heal?" Non-duality tells me to leave all

seeming problems alone. To ask, to whom does this pain and fever come? To

cleave only to the Self.

Well, even after my realization that healing the body doesn't come from

healing the story of the self, but from letting go of the story of the seIf,

I still didn't feel right just letting go of the story. That I was torn by what to do

showed me that I wasn't ready to simply turn away from the illusion of

illness. Had I attempted to do so, it would only have been an act of

denial. So I decided to do whatever healing work came to me to do.

Once the antibiotics kicked in, I felt well enough to get to work.

I ended up doing a great deal of work on tearing down the walls within

me that prevent me from opening more fully to life. Each of those

walls was a belief. A lie. And in seeing the lie, the walls crumbled.

What's interesting is that in healing the story, I came to

realizations that didn't just change the story, but actually helped

me let go of it. I was able to see where and what I cling to, which

loosened my fingers' grip considerably. Rather than exchanging the

lie for a healthier belief, which would also be a lie, I exchanged

the clinging for openness.

Rather than letting go of the separate self, I attempted to heal the story. And

in healing the story, I was able to loosen my grip on the separate self.

****

So, Eric, it's not that I'm giving up spiritual or even psychological

practices, it's that my relationship to them is changing. My beliefs

and judgments about them are being transformed. I will do whatever

spiritual practices seem right, to the best of my ability, for as

long as they seem necessary or appropriate. I am simply no longer

attached to the idea that I must do them, in order to gain

enlightenment, or that I shouldn't do them, because that would go

against Advaita's teaching that I'm it already.

This path is a paradox. Truth is a paradox. The ground is always

crumbling beneath my feet, so I've learned to step lightly.

****

the dance of life

is uncontrollable

so stay loose

step lightly

and let life lead

****

Namaste,

Julie

[Guest guest]

Bobby & Friends,

 

Bobby, which board are you alluding to in your comments below, the

one where depression is a common subject?

 

Hope you're well and clicking along.

yours in the bonds,

eric

 

 

 

, bgbbyg@a... wrote:

> , EBlackstead@c... wrote:> To illustrate,

> one teaching that suffers frequent abuse on these

> > forums would be "Fait'ce que vous voudriez", or believe in the

Lord

> > and do what you like. We usually read this one as part of a self

> > comforting littany that it is all one, so we might as well do

what

> we

> > want, or the frequently uttered "new" teaching that as no

spiritual

> > practice can guarantee enlightenment, we might as well do what we

> > want and let enlightenment dawn on us naturally in it's own time.

> >

> > Only experience can show us what absolute nonsense this teaching

> is,

> > until mirabile dictu, some seemingly "spontaneous" change takes

> place

> > in us, and all of a sudden, we realize that for us, it has all of

a

> > sudden become "true". Of course, all the spiritual work and

> > discipline that we have practiced in this or some previous life

> > wouldn't have anything to do with the changes that have

> spontaneously

> > manifested for us, would they?

>

> Dear Eric:

>

> I agree most heartily.

> "That" is where ideas about enlightenment nullify the ability of

the

> mind to justify practice.

> "This" is where practice leads and it can't be argued.

>

> On the other hand though, that teaching makes a good point to

people

> who are ready for it. Enlightenment has to be what is and not

> yearning for any principle called enlightenment, and so can be a

> block.

> I posted that Idea to a follower of someone who promotes the ideas

> you mentioned, who will go unnamed, and said if your guru tells you

> to believe that then that is the way to go. He wrote back that "so

> and so" doesn't teach any "way".

> It did not seem to me that this person was ready for that teaching

> but I don't know the whole scoop.

> There was a lot of talk about depression on that message board.

> Your assessment seemed particularly accurate.

>

> Love

> Bobby G.

[Guest guest]

Julie & Friends,

 

Julie said:

 

My realization that spiritual practices separate me from what is,

isn't going to stop me from doing spiritual practices. What it's done

is to undermine my belief in the formula:

 

spiritual practices + time = enlightenment

 

It's changed my perception of myself and my actions, but it hasn't

changed my actions. It's more of a deep relaxation. I've actually had

many revelations of late, and the end result is usually the giving up

of a belief. What I do hasn't changed all that much.

 

Eric:

 

Me too, Julie. The formula to me is still relevant as a concept. the

difference between our approach may be that I've become quite sure

that the time aspect isn't going to occur in this life for me. Like

you I've become somewhat relaxed about it, although I'd be misleading

you if I didn't say that on an intellectual level I feel somewhat

used. This probably relates as much to my summary feelings about Baba

Muktananda, his teachings and his personal practices, as to anything

else.

 

Julie:

> This path is a paradox. Truth is a paradox. The ground is always

crumbling

> beneath my feet, so I've learned to step lightly.

> ****

>

> the dance of life

> is uncontrollable

>

> so stay loose

> step lightly

>

> and let life lead

> ****

 

I like your attitude.

Yours in the bonds,

eric

 

 

 

 

 

 

, Julie Isaac <jei@m...> wrote:

> Hi Eric,

>

> This post, more than any other I've written, has proven to be a

spiritual

> Rorshach test. On this list and others, I've gotten the most wildly

diverse

> responses. When I said these words to my teacher at Satsang, her

response

> was, "Wonderful." When I wrote them in an introductory letter to a

> self-proclaimed awakened being (Don't ask who!!), in order to join a

> non-duality discussion list, I received the reply, "Don't take this

> personally, but you're much too full of your own know-it-all

bullshit for

> this list."

>

> On a general spirituality list, someone assumed that I was going

through a

> crisis and encouraged me to be a survivor. Another tried to teach

me a

> "non-process" process to help me turn off my mind. Some have

identified with

> my words, some have been opened by them, and others have shared

their wisdom

> and joy in return.

>

> I've looked at each response as a two-way mirror. While the mirror

most

> clearly reflects the sender's beliefs and experiences, I've also

carefully

> considered whether there was anything in a response that mirrored

some part

> of myself back to me which I would then need to examine and

address. This

> actually has had the effect of making me look more closely at my own

> responses to the sharing of others, to see what my responses reveal

about my

> beliefs and conditioning.

>

> Now, as for your post, I see very little of myself in it. However,

based on

> what was shared, I understand your assumptions. I'm very aware of

the

> Advaita Shuffle and the variations on that theme which flourish in

other

> teachings. My realization that spiritual practices separate me from

what is,

> isn't going to stop me from doing spiritual practices. What it's

done is to

> undermine my belief in the formula:

>

> spiritual practices + time = enlightenment

>

> It's changed my perception of myself and my actions, but it hasn't

changed

> my actions. It's more of a deep relaxation. I've actually had many

> revelations of late, and the end result is usually the giving up of

a

> belief. What I do hasn't changed all that much.

>

> To illustrate this, here is a portion of a post that I wrote to

another list

> recently, when I was sick.

>

> ****

> I'm generally pretty healthy, but right now I'm dealing with some

physical

> problems. After seeing a doctor to get the ball rolling, I dealt

with the

> question, "to heal or not to heal?" Non-duality tells me to leave

all

> seeming problems alone. To ask, to whom does this pain and fever

come? To

> cleave only to the Self.

>

> Well, even after my realization that healing the body doesn't come

from

> healing the story of the self, but from letting go of the story of

the seIf,

> I still didn't feel right just letting go of the story. That I was

torn by

> what to do

> showed me that I wasn't ready to simply turn away from the illusion

of

> illness. Had I attempted to do so, it would only have been an act

of denial.

> So I decided to do whatever healing work came to me to do. Once the

> antibiotics kicked in, I felt well enough to get to work.

>

> I ended up doing a great deal of work on tearing down the walls

within me

> that prevent me from opening more fully to life. Each of those

walls was a

> belief. A lie. And in seeing the lie, the walls crumbled. What's

interesting

> is that in healing the story, I came to realizations that didn't

just change

> the story, but actually helped me let go of it. I was able to see

where and

> what I cling to, which loosened my fingers' grip considerably.

Rather than

> exchanging the lie for a healthier belief, which would also be a

lie, I

> exchanged the clinging for openness.

>

> Rather than letting go of the separate self, I attempted to heal

the story.

> And

> in healing the story, I was able to loosen my grip on the separate

self.

> ****

>

>

> So, Eric, it's not that I'm giving up spiritual or even

psychological

> practices, it's that my relationship to them is changing. My

beliefs and

> judgments about them are being transformed. I will do whatever

spiritual

> practices seem right, to the best of my ability, for as long as

they seem

> necessary or appropriate. I am simply no longer attached to the

idea that I

> must do them, in order to gain enlightenment, or that I shouldn't

do them,

> because that would go against Advaita's teaching that I'm it

already.

>

> This path is a paradox. Truth is a paradox. The ground is always

crumbling

> beneath my feet, so I've learned to step lightly.

> ****

>

> the dance of life

> is uncontrollable

>

> so stay loose

> step lightly

>

> and let life lead

> ****

>

> Namaste,

> Julie

[Guest guest]

 

EBlackstead [EBlackstead]

Wednesday, November 14, 2001 8:23 PM

Re: Nowhere to Turn

 

 

Julie & Friends,

 

Julie said:

 

My realization that spiritual practices separate me from what is,

isn't going to stop me from doing spiritual practices. What it's done

is to undermine my belief in the formula:

 

spiritual practices + time = enlightenment

 

It's changed my perception of myself and my actions, but it hasn't

changed my actions. It's more of a deep relaxation. I've actually had

many revelations of late, and the end result is usually the giving up

of a belief. What I do hasn't changed all that much.

 

Eric:

 

Me too, Julie. The formula to me is still relevant as a concept. the

difference between our approach may be that I've become quite sure

that the time aspect isn't going to occur in this life for me. Like

you I've become somewhat relaxed about it, although I'd be misleading

you if I didn't say that on an intellectual level I feel somewhat

used. This probably relates as much to my summary feelings about Baba

Muktananda, his teachings and his personal practices, as to anything

else.

***********************

Can you discuss these Eric.

 

Harsha

[Guest guest]

Dear Eric:

 

I didn't want to say what message board it was. I don't want to be

critical of people's practice or non-practice. I went to that board

quite a bit before I found . I was getting a bit

depressed myself. Kheyala asked if there were any other message

boards that dealt with non-dualism and someone gave this link.

 

This group of people is the first sounding board for my ideas I have

ever had. I like it a lot.

 

I got to thinking about that question "am I well and clicking along?"

I am feeling a little snippy right now. I have been working hard

framing paintings and I have sore muscles and a lack of patience. I

am not a good framer and I had to frame and glass fourteen pastels.

Thanks for asking.

 

I think I will go and get some Kundalini flowing.

 

Later.

Bobby G.

 

 

 

 

, EBlackstead@c... wrote:

> Bobby & Friends,

>

> Bobby, which board are you alluding to in your comments below, the

> one where depression is a common subject?

>

> Hope you're well and clicking along.

> yours in the bonds,

> eric

>

>

>

> , bgbbyg@a... wrote:

> > , EBlackstead@c... wrote:> To

illustrate,

> > one teaching that suffers frequent abuse on these

> > > forums would be "Fait'ce que vous voudriez", or believe in the

> Lord

> > > and do what you like. We usually read this one as part of a

self

> > > comforting littany that it is all one, so we might as well do

> what

> > we

> > > want, or the frequently uttered "new" teaching that as no

> spiritual

> > > practice can guarantee enlightenment, we might as well do what

we

> > > want and let enlightenment dawn on us naturally in it's own

time.

> > >

> > > Only experience can show us what absolute nonsense this

teaching

> > is,

> > > until mirabile dictu, some seemingly "spontaneous" change takes

> > place

> > > in us, and all of a sudden, we realize that for us, it has all

of

> a

> > > sudden become "true". Of course, all the spiritual work and

> > > discipline that we have practiced in this or some previous life

> > > wouldn't have anything to do with the changes that have

> > spontaneously

> > > manifested for us, would they?

> >

> > Dear Eric:

> >

> > I agree most heartily.

> > "That" is where ideas about enlightenment nullify the ability of

> the

> > mind to justify practice.

> > "This" is where practice leads and it can't be argued.

> >

> > On the other hand though, that teaching makes a good point to

> people

> > who are ready for it. Enlightenment has to be what is and not

> > yearning for any principle called enlightenment, and so can be a

> > block.

> > I posted that Idea to a follower of someone who promotes the

ideas

> > you mentioned, who will go unnamed, and said if your guru tells

you

> > to believe that then that is the way to go. He wrote back

that "so

> > and so" doesn't teach any "way".

> > It did not seem to me that this person was ready for that

teaching

> > but I don't know the whole scoop.

> > There was a lot of talk about depression on that message board.

> > Your assessment seemed particularly accurate.

> >

> > Love

> > Bobby G.

[Guest guest]

Greetings all;

I have been watching the branches of thought on this Nowhere to Turn

tree.

 

I am occasionally asked what spiritual practices I perform. I don't

actually do any, neither do I to any specific philosophy.

As Julie says: "What I do hasn't changed that much." I still don't do

any recognisable "spiritual practice." And some marvel at this.

 

I know that there is much conflict in the various practices and

philosophies, coming as they do from individual understandings,

cultures and conditions. That is why I would encourage each to find

their authenticity and own unique expression.

 

Okay, one practice and/or philosophy I do to is: "No method

nor discipline can supersede the necessity of being forever on the

alert. What is a course of history or philosophy, or poetry, no

matter how well selected, or the best society, or the most admirable

routine of life, compared with the discipline of looking always at

what is to be seen? Will you be a reader, a student merely, or a

seer?" (Thoreau.) I find that it is all too easy to renounce a set of

conditions only to embrace another, but "spiritual," one. I got tired

of that many years ago. I wasn't even looking for "enlightenment"

whatever that means.

 

One thing I discovered was that there are many ways to that

inexpressible "end." As there are so many diverse, even conflicting,

practices and philosophies to the one conclusion, then surely there

must be a common element within each one. That element is that each

practitioner is a Person, and that spirituality is for People (not

for "spirit"). Then, how does each Person transcend him/herself? That

must be a common element also. Ignoring the cliched "awareness"

(though absolutely correct in principle!), the common element towards

transcendence is INTENT. If one is intent upon seeing beyond the

obvious to the essence beneath, then s/he WILL see, regardless of

practice or lack of practice, regardless of world-view.

 

One just needs to look at, for example, the varieties of expression:

advaita, taoism, christian mysticism, sufism, shamanism, buddhism,

blah blah blah. The oneness which each one expresses is the same

vision, but expressed by different voices under different conditions

and different time periods and cultures. I personally feel that

sometimes some of these eastern philosophies, to a westerner, can be

a hinderance. It can give him/her something new to BELIEVE in, and a

new lifestyle to practice. The intent may get swamped in the novelty

of the experience.

 

I would tell people to be alert in their practices, because practices

seem to just be giving the mind something to do until

awakening "occurs." This same alertness can be given to the western

lifestyle which many of us have inherited. Water flowing from a

tap/faucet will teach the same lesson as a river, though it is less

poetic! :~) The seer and the seen are one in the seeing.

 

Our true nature is transcendence.

 

But if that may be learned through the repetition of practices, then

go for it. Who am I, that I should practice the practice of telling

others not to practice their practices?? :~)

 

Love and grace,

~ Janak.

 

 

 

, EBlackstead@c... wrote:

> Julie & Friends,

>

> Julie said:

>

> My realization that spiritual practices separate me from what is,

> isn't going to stop me from doing spiritual practices. What it's

done

> is to undermine my belief in the formula:

>

> spiritual practices + time = enlightenment

>

> It's changed my perception of myself and my actions, but it hasn't

> changed my actions. It's more of a deep relaxation. I've actually

had

> many revelations of late, and the end result is usually the giving

up

> of a belief. What I do hasn't changed all that much.

>

> Eric:

>

> Me too, Julie. The formula to me is still relevant as a concept.

the

> difference between our approach may be that I've become quite sure

> that the time aspect isn't going to occur in this life for me. Like

> you I've become somewhat relaxed about it, although I'd be

misleading

> you if I didn't say that on an intellectual level I feel somewhat

> used. This probably relates as much to my summary feelings about

Baba

> Muktananda, his teachings and his personal practices, as to

anything

> else.

>

[Guest guest]

"All conditioned dharmas (ways to liberate one's own "ego" only)

are like dreams, illusions, bubbles, shadows,

like dew drops, a lightning flash

Contemplate them thus."

 

- Gautama Buddha, Vajracchedika Prajnaparamita Sutra

 

* Bruce Morgen

>

>Calling Lao Tzu a Taoist is

>a lot like calling Jesus a

>Christian

>

 

In Tibetan occult rituals, the thunderbolt (vajra) was employed in

conjunction with a bell and gestures (mudras). The thunderbolt was held in

the right hand (the male prinsciple and action) and the bell in the left

hand (the female prinsciple and intelligence). The interaction of the two

leads to enlightenment.

 

In Tibet, the thunderbolt (vajra) the hollow of the bell symbolizes wisdom

and the clapper represents the sound of emptiness.

 

The sound of emptiness is the sound of freedom from any spesific

"viewpoints". It is the void - the light in our cellular structure.

 

Since karma of past-memories of 5,000 million lifetimes - about one lifetime

pr individual incarnated on Earth now, filled the void of my cellular

structure some day ago -

 

may the sound of emptiness be heard !

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