Guest guest Posted November 21, 2001 Report Share Posted November 21, 2001 lt is with a warm feeling in my heart that l say hello again to my old friends at . l believe Harsha warned of my return last month -- it was delayed by an extended stay in the shop by my computer. ( l might add that l agreed to end my 7 month sabbatical and return only after Harsha begged me on his knees for several days, finally offering to forego any commissions on all future works of Jerrysan Rinpoche.) l hope everyone has been well during this time. As for yours truly, well .... my spiritual odyssey has gotten even stranger than before. lt might be recalled that l had a nasty reaction to acupuncture last March -- after that, stomach gas became unbearable and the energy system became hyper-sensitive to the energy of others. This led to major problems with the Tibetan monks who've used my upstairs as their monastery. Their energy overloaded my system and made me quite ill, so whenever they'd make their weekly trip here for their teaching l would have to leave my home, sometime for days at a time. (They always intended this to be a full time monastery, but they weren't able to get new monks needed to staff it full time.) This went on for 6 months, until finally in October l told them they'd have to leave. l waited this long because l always hoped the effect was temporary, but instead of getting better it only got worse! lt got to the point where the last couple months l couldn't be near them for even 30 seconds without having a strong reaction. So l had to avoid them completely, which was an enormous pain, considering they were in my home, where l would normally spend 90% of my time. This was such a disappointment, because before the reaction to the acupuncture it was working beautifully, both for them and for me. l was running things for them here, setting up the teachings, healings, consultations, as well as managing the house. Everyone thought my house was perfect as a monastery, and the zen garden was quite an attraction as well. My life finally felt full and useful -- something l hadn't felt during the prior 8 years of my kundalini struggle. Even though l couldn't meditate or do spiritual practices myself, it felt great to be an integral part of a spiritual community and to know l was helping others. And l thought l'd hate to ever see the monastery go. But by this fall, l was ready. l couldn't impose on my friends any more by asking to stay at their homes when the monks came. Finally, the whole thing had worn me out. So l found them a new home -- about 6 blocks from here -- where they've been for 2 weeks now. l'm trying to get used to their absence upstairs -- to the absence of visitors, tangkhas, wall hangings, altar, Tibetan trinkets and books for sale,etc. No longer a *spiritual center* blessed by lamas and tulkus, my home is once again the abode of a recluse coping with the perils of the path. l still don't understand what happened with the acupuncture -- why my system is still so hyper-sensitive, my stomach still so weak. l don't think l can be around spiritual energy at all. l'm in my 10th year of feeling trapped in this maze of confusion and frustration (known to many of us as the kundalini process), wondering how l can be emboldened to trust anything to help if even an acupuncture session can create such problems. Guess this has been rather gloomy, so let me say that it ain't all been bad. lt's been another busy season of making changes in the garden. l've even got my nephew's roommate (at the U of Cincinnati here) helping me create a little website in order to display garden photos l took recently. Can't think of anything else worth saying right now -- hope l hear from old friends here. jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2001 Report Share Posted November 21, 2001 , GCWein1111@a... wrote: > lt is with a warm feeling in my heart that l say hello again to my old > friends at . l believe Harsha warned of my return last month -- Dear Jerrysan, You may not be familiar with me, but I am familiar with you after being here at Harsha's for just over a year now. It is good to have you among us again. Your stories about the monks that Harshaji has shared have held me captivated from the beginning. Welcome back to the satsang Jerrysan. I look forward to reading more messages from you. Love, Peace, Mazie > it was delayed by an extended stay in the shop by my computer. ( l might add > that l agreed to end my 7 month sabbatical and return only after Harsha > begged me on his knees for several days, finally offering to forego any > commissions on all future works of Jerrysan Rinpoche.) > > l hope everyone has been well during > this time. As for yours truly, well .... my spiritual odyssey has gotten even > stranger than before. lt might be recalled that l had a nasty reaction to > acupuncture last March -- after that, stomach gas became unbearable and the > energy system became hyper-sensitive to the energy of others. > This led to > major problems with the Tibetan monks who've used my upstairs as their > monastery. Their energy overloaded my system and made me quite ill, so > whenever they'd make their weekly trip here for their teaching l would have > to leave my home, sometime for days at a time. (They always intended this to > be a full time monastery, but they weren't able to get new monks needed to > staff it full time.) > This went on for 6 months, until finally in > October l told them they'd have to leave. l waited this long because l always > hoped the effect was temporary, but instead of getting better it only got > worse! lt got to the point where the last couple months l couldn't be near > them for even 30 seconds without having a strong reaction. So l had to avoid > them completely, which was an enormous pain, considering they were in my > home, where l would normally spend 90% of my time. > This was > such a disappointment, because before the reaction to the acupuncture it was > working beautifully, both for them and for me. l was running things for them > here, setting up the teachings, healings, consultations, as well as managing > the house. Everyone thought my house was perfect as a monastery, and the zen > garden was quite an attraction as well. My life finally felt full and useful > -- something l hadn't felt during the prior 8 years of my kundalini struggle. > > Even though l couldn't meditate or do > spiritual practices myself, it felt great to be an integral part of a > spiritual community and to know l was helping others. And l thought l'd hate > to ever see the monastery go. But by this fall, l was ready. l couldn't > impose on my friends any more by asking to stay at their homes when the monks > came. Finally, the whole thing had worn me out. So l found them a new home -- > about 6 blocks from here -- where they've been for 2 weeks now. > > l'm trying to get used to their absence upstairs -- to the absence of > visitors, tangkhas, wall hangings, altar, Tibetan trinkets and books for > sale,etc. No longer a *spiritual center* blessed by lamas and tulkus, my > home is once again the abode of a recluse coping with the perils of the path. > > l still don't understand what > happened with the acupuncture -- why my system is still so hyper- sensitive, > my stomach still so weak. l don't think l can be around spiritual energy at > all. l'm in my 10th year of feeling trapped in this maze of confusion and > frustration (known to many of us as the kundalini process), wondering how l > can be emboldened to trust anything to help if even an acupuncture session > can create such problems. > > Guess this has been rather gloomy, so let me say that it > ain't all been bad. lt's been another busy season of making changes in the > garden. l've even got my nephew's roommate (at the U of Cincinnati here) > helping me create a little website in order to display garden photos l took > recently. > Can't think of anything else > worth saying right now -- hope l hear from old friends here. > > > jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2001 Report Share Posted November 21, 2001 Welcome back Jerrysan, A pity the Tibetans couldn't heal you - the sound of the "singing" bowls alone is said to be like a purifying balm for the mind-body. But the bliss of solitude often does what no healer could. Grace does not depend on location, caste, creed, knowledge or ignorance. Peace, Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2001 Report Share Posted November 22, 2001 Nice to have you back, Jerry -- we've missed you! Holly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2001 Report Share Posted November 22, 2001 Thu, 22 Nov 2001 03:42:23 +0000 "jb" <kvy9 Re: Hello Welcome back Jerrysan, A pity the Tibetans couldn't heal you - the sound of the "singing" bowls alone is said to be like a purifying balm for the mind-body. But the bliss of solitude often does what no healer could. Grace does not depend on location, caste, creed, knowledge or ignorance. Peace, Jan Solitude and simplicity must be very healing. It seems the way Grace works, one suddenly 'wakes up'. Even in the midst of pain and confusion -- and without them leaving! -- it happens like the morning sun rising, blazing through the window and onto one's face. The obviousness of everything is seen and all one can do is laugh. Jerry -- http://nonduality.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2001 Report Share Posted November 22, 2001 Jerry! Is it good to see you or whaaaaat??! Welcome back... you were missed. Love, xxxtg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2001 Report Share Posted November 23, 2001 Thank you so much, Mark, Jan, Jerry, Mazie, Holly, tg and all others who've welcomed me back in your hearts. Honestly, l felt quite embarrassed after sending that post -- there l was, returning to the list with this whining sob story; and on the eve of Thanksgiving, no less. ln other words, l haven't changed. Mark, l've never tried yarrow. Of course, l KNOW it won't help me ( ha, ha). Jan's words about solitude ring true. Truth is, the Tibetan thing probably wasn't the right fit for me, given my difficulties. lt just offered several things l've missed and wanted that were hard to let go of. l think others here can relate to my situation, although theirs isn't the same: l've consistently gotten the message over the years that l'm not going to get what l need from any teacher or spiritual community -- not that l can't learn from others, but that my process needs space and time to unfold in its own way. l wish it weren't so -- l wish someone could help lead me through this, but everything that's happened has reinforced the notion that this is a solitary journey. My not being able to be around spiritual energy reminds me of Padre Pio, the 20th century Catholic mystic. l recall reading that in his early years he was unable to enter a monastery without becoming sick, so he stayed away for a long time. lt was a real problem and almost got him thrown out, as his superiors got increasingly frustrated, but it resolved itself in time. (Not to compare myself with the Padre ... ) jerrysan rinpoche (not to be confused with that other Jerry who's trying to horn in on my correspondence) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2001 Report Share Posted November 23, 2001 , leteegee@a... wrote: > Jerry! > > Is it good to see you or whaaaaat??! > > Welcome back... you were missed. > > Love, > xxxtg thanks tg and holly. I didn't realize I was gone. I guess I gotta stop suffing my face with donuts and chips and speak up once in a while. Love, Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2001 Report Share Posted November 23, 2001 - GCWein1111 (AT) aol (DOT) com Friday, November 23, 2001 11:30 AM Re: Hello Thank you so much, Mark, Jan, Jerry, Mazie, Holly, tg and all others who've welcomed me back in your hearts. Honestly, l felt quite embarrassed after sending that post -- there l was, returning to the list with this whining sob story; and on the eve of Thanksgiving, no less. ln other words, l haven't changed. Dear Jerrysan, Yes, it was incredibly bad timing for me, and even worse for Harsha! I suppose doing without the warm welcome he would have given you is punishment enough, so no more scolding. Your stories have such charm, somehow your telling of it overshadows the whining. It sounds like you and the Tibetans were a blessing to one another exactly the way it worked out. There's a lot more going on that we can't always see or know. At least that's what I always tell myself. Ha! The "other Jerry" has been almost as absent as you, but instead of a drama-filled story about esoteric goings on, we get this pathetic donut excuse. So you see why you are so loved and appreciated here, Jerrysan. And please let us know where and when we can view the pictures of your exotic and serene Zen garden. The "other Jerry" probably has a couple barely thriving houseplants, if that. We are submitting photos of his attic garret to "Minimalist Living" magazine. Needless to say, welcome back. Love, Gloria PS to "other Jerry" - so you were gone? I hadn't noticed. Mark, l've never tried yarrow. Of course, l KNOW it won't help me ( ha, ha). Jan's words about solitude ring true. Truth is, the Tibetan thing probably wasn't the right fit for me, given my difficulties. lt just offered several things l've missed and wanted that were hard to let go of. l think others here can relate to my situation, although theirs isn't the same: l've consistently gotten the message over the years that l'm not going to get what l need from any teacher or spiritual community -- not that l can't learn from others, but that my process needs space and time to unfold in its own way. l wish it weren't so -- l wish someone could help lead me through this, but everything that's happened has reinforced the notion that this is a solitary journey. My not being able to be around spiritual energy reminds me of Padre Pio, the 20th century Catholic mystic. l recall reading that in his early years he was unable to enter a monastery without becoming sick, so he stayed away for a long time. lt was a real problem and almost got him thrown out, as his superiors got increasingly frustrated, but it resolved itself in time. (Not to compare myself with the Padre ... ) jerrysan rinpoche (not to be confused with that other Jerry who's trying to horn in on my correspondence) /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a.Your use of is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2001 Report Share Posted November 24, 2001 In a message dated 11/23/01 12:07:23 PM Pacific Standard Time, glee writes: << Yes, it was incredibly bad timing for me, and even worse for Harsha! I suppose doing without the warm welcome he would have given you is punishment enough, so no more scolding. Your stories have such charm, somehow your telling of it overshadows the whining. It sounds like you and the Tibetans were a blessing to one another exactly the way it worked out. There's a lot more going on that we can't always see or know. At least that's what I always tell myself. Ha! The "other Jerry" has been almost as absent as you, but instead of a drama-filled story about esoteric goings on, we get this pathetic donut excuse. So you see why you are so loved and appreciated here, Jerrysan. And please let us know where and when we can view the pictures of your exotic and serene Zen garden. The "other Jerry" probably has a couple barely thriving houseplants, if that. We are submitting photos of his attic garret to "Minimalist Living" magazine. Needless to say, welcome back. Love, Gloria >> Gloria! Thank you for such a delightful welcome. l hope the garden photos won't disappoint -- haven't seen them scanned yet. l've been looking at various Japanese garden websites online and haven't yet seen one with good photos, so l'm hoping mine won't be as bad as others l've seen. Of course, l know they won't compare with photos of the "other Jerry's" attic garret, but l never aspired to such heights. l hope all has been well with you. love, jerrysan rinpoche Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2001 Report Share Posted November 25, 2001 Hello Dharma, Thank you for your kind words of encouragement and for so generously sharing your recent experiences. l'm really sorry to learn of your illness -- sounds as if you've been through alot. Although l appear to have an unfortunate hyper-sensitivity to spiritual energy, l don't think l have some of the forms of acute sensitivity that others have, such as what you describe happening to you around Sept 11. l felt somewhat ill afterward, as l imagine many did, but not before then. You mentioned Muktananda -- l believe he had diabetes. l'm not sure what other medical problems he had. The statement you reference to him about kundalini bringing up illnesses to be worked through for the last time is one l've also heard before. l can only speak for myself in saying that after all the things l've experienced in my process and have heard from others, l take all these axioms with a grain of salt. l figure they're all true for some k people, but not for all of us. l can relate to what you say about taking medicines. Before, l never had a problem taking medicine. Now, l can hardly take anything, which can be quite worrisome. l was unable to take antibiotics a couple years ago, and an inability to take those can put you back in the 19th century real quick when it comes to medical treatment. l shy away from the anthrax stories, figuring that a few spores would likely do me in. l remember El Collie had a real rough time not long ago because she couldn't take antibiotics. l'm sure you're right in saying El has accounted for CFS being triggered by k. l haven't had any contact with El for over a year now -- last l heard she was really having severe physical problems herself related to her energy. When l see someone at her level struggle as much as she has in recent years, it reminds me of the difficulty in being able to predict or account for everything that happens in the course of a k experience. As you say, the factors we would normally look to begin to seem far too simplistic. Thank you for passing along that quote. l agree with you that spiritual realization -- the knowledge that in the ultimate sense we're always truly safe -- is the critical factor in all this. From a physical and social standpoint the last 10 years have been a huge waste -- an exercise in nothing but frustration. But if l can KNOW that it's truly about something far greater than what merely appears on the surface, then it will have all been worthwhile. l can't honestly say l'm there yet. ln my better moments l see it the way you do: that this is what it's all been about. Hope you are feeling better. love, jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2001 Report Share Posted November 25, 2001 Hi Jerry, > lt is with a warm feeling in my heart that l say hello again to my old friends at . I've been away too, because of a bad recurrence of the old ME/CFS. Just getting slowly better, starting to read a bit on the list and saw your messages. > .... my spiritual odyssey has gotten even stranger than before. lt might be recalled that l had a nasty reaction to acupuncture last March -- after that, stomach gas became unbearable and the energy system became hyper-sensitive to the energy of others. I had a couple of nasty reactions to medicines that were supposed to be necessary at the time. And then a year of bad stress. Seems like I should be able to handle stress, but I guess the effect of stress on the body is involuntary and natural - the man who wrote the book on it says even major good events are stressful. > This led to major problems with the Tibetan monks who've used my upstairs as their monastery. Their energy overloaded my system and made me quite ill, so whenever they'd make their weekly trip here for their teaching l would have to leave my home, sometime for days at a time. (They always intended this to be a full time monastery, but they weren't able to get new monks needed to staff it full time.) > This went on for 6 months, until finally in October l told them they'd have to leave. l waited this long because l always hoped the effect was temporary, but instead of getting better it only got worse! lt got to the point where the last couple months l couldn't be near them for even 30 seconds without having a strong reaction. So l had to avoid them completely, which was an enormous pain, considering they were in my home, where l would normally spend 90% of my time. Did you notice any change about the time of the Sept. 11 attack on NYC & the Pentagon? Before that, I was aware that I was doing some clearing for others - picking up stuff and passing it on up and out. But about that time I was just deluged with grief, even before I knew what had happened. And so much more Kundalini... seemed like a major increase in the K. level. So I was working hard to keep moving all the grief and stuff through - and moving excess K. on through. And at the same time the relapse and illness had thrown my whole body out of whack. Inflammation of the whole spinal area and brain, immune system hit, nothing working right, it seemed... not thinking very clearly, Kundalini erratic and difficult to manage - really weird. I was down flat most of the time, the sickest I've ever been in my life. Years ago I had a fast-heart problem (tachycardia), brought on by a ME/CFS bout, apparently, and was on beta blockers (adrenaline blockers) for it. That problem did improve, and I went off the medicine after three years. Well, now it's back, and I'm on the beta blocker again. I'm going into details only because I have a question or two for anyone. I read in Muktananda and was told by a teacher that Kundalini remakes the body and gets rid of all illnesses and weaknesses. Muktananda says that an old illness may recur for the LAST time - and then it's gone forever. Well, my illness went away during the development of active K. I worked hard on the K. and finally was teaching the methods I'd learned. But now the illness is back! Eric, I think you knew Muktananda. Was he ever sick, and did he offer any explanation of this? Of course, I know all the sages and teachers (or almost all eventually died of something! I ask myself: in the course of all the stress, did I get to living in a different way, and did that bring about the relapse? But that seems too simplistic. I'll be grateful for any insight / experience on the subject. Right now I'm not teaching. I could talk, but there's more to this kind of teaching than talk - and I don't feel capable of energy-type work. I'm slowly getting better, but it's still erratic - I'm in no condition to teach. Jerry, I wish I had a garden like yours - how wonderful that would be! But I'm in California, and when I walk outside I can be with flowers and beautiful trees, even here in the city. > This was such a disappointment, because before the reaction to the acupuncture it was working beautifully, both for them and for me. l was running things for them here, setting up the teachings, healings, consultations, as well as managing the house. Everyone thought my house was perfect as a monastery, and the zen garden was quite an attraction as well. My life finally felt full and useful -- something l hadn't felt during the prior 8 years of my kundalini struggle. > > Even though l couldn't meditate or do spiritual practices myself, it felt great to be an integral part of a spiritual community and to know l was helping others. Jerry, I feel certain that your life is useful and helpful to others - and that you ARE part of a spiritual community always, visible or invisible. The DK books say that many souls have come into incarnation at this period even though they didn't have to - as volunteer work, so to speak, to help with the great change that is going on now. I believe this, and I think that possibly the most important thing many are doing is just BEING HERE! Like the yeast in the bread, helping all of humanity, all the world, to grow and expand and rise! So don't ever think you are not useful and important - and loved. You are greatly loved. >And l thought l'd hate to ever see the monastery go. But by this fall, l was ready. l couldn't impose on my friends any more by asking to stay at their homes when the monks came. Finally, the whole thing had worn me out. So l found them a new home -- about 6 blocks from here -- where they've been for 2 weeks now. > > l'm trying to get used to their absence upstairs -- to the absence of visitors, tangkhas, wall hangings, altar, Tibetan trinkets and books for sale,etc. No longer a *spiritual center* blessed by lamas and tulkus, my home is once again the abode of a recluse coping with the perils of the path. So it's still a spiritual center. > l still don't understand what happened with the acupuncture -- why my system is still so hyper-sensitive, my stomach still so weak. l don't think l can be around spiritual energy at all. l'm in my 10th year of feeling trapped in this maze of confusion and frustration (known to many of us as the kundalini process), wondering how l can be emboldened to trust anything to help if even an acupuncture session can create such problems. Acupuncture was suggested to me - now I'm glad I didn't go for it. I feel sure that the chronic illness I have - myalgic encephalomyelitis, ME/CFS - is somehow related to Kundalini... so many people have both active K. and ME/CFS. El Collie thinks so too. One thing I know this disease has done - it's taken many people out of the rat race, made it impossible for them to continue in a hectic life style and made it necessary for them to live in relative solitude, givejn them time for the introspection and spiritual life they couldn't have before. So maybe it's all a part of what's happening in the world at this period. A widespread disease that causes people to become more spiritual - think of that! > Guess this has been rather gloomy, so let me say that it ain't all been bad. lt's been another busy season of making changes in the garden. That sounds wonderful! >snip< My not >being able to be around spiritual energy reminds me of Padre Pio, the 20th century Catholic mystic. l recall reading that in his early years he was unable to enter a monastery without becoming sick, so he stayed away for a long time. lt was a real problem and almost got him thrown out, as his superiors got increasingly frustrated, but it resolved itself in time. (Not to compare myself with the Padre ... ) I don' know whether I have your problem in this regard, because I'm still pretty much confined to my apartment. But I've been doing what I could to hold down the K. level, because it's difficult to manage. And I don't know what I should do about it considering the medicines I'm on. (Try finding a doctor who knows! I just wrote something to a dear friend, and I'd like to say it to you too, Jerry: >I can only offer what my son and I keep trying to remember through >these difficult months: we know that we really are always safe, >always living in joy and peace and love. And that it's only the >personality levels, the bodies, that feel the difficulties, the >pain, the grief. And that whatever we are going through, we chose >it and planned it for some reason - which may not be easy to see >now, but we know it is so. We know who we are, as you do, and we >know we are always safe. And that it is all working towards the >good, towards more light and love. Love, Dharma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2001 Report Share Posted November 25, 2001 Hi Dharma, Sorry to hear you've not been well and still are having health problems. In the course of events i always noticed too late that K. and a mind-body often relate like tuning and an engine - the system becomes much more powerful but much more critical too. In my case, the willingness to experiment instead of to argue, and to take the risks involved, worked like a compass. So i can't complain but instead can only confess that K. has been (still is) a great joy. Physical condition (energy) and healing like that of a youth. Peace, Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2001 Report Share Posted November 29, 2001 Thanks to all the brothers and sisters who answered. >Jerrysan: > You mentioned Muktananda -- l believe he had diabetes. Very interesting. > l'm not sure what other medical problems he had. The statement you reference to him about kundalini bringing up illnesses to be worked through for the last time is one l've also heard before. l can only speak for myself in saying that after all the things l've experienced in my process and have heard from others, l take all these axioms with a grain of salt. l figure they're all true for some k people, but not for all of us. Well, that was in the autobiography, which was mostly about his development as a very young man. I wonder if he might have written that part when quite young. When I heard about the scandal of his later years, I was surprised because when young he was brahmacharya - celibate and virgin. I read what one or two of the women said about what happened - it did not sound like torrid affairs. It sounded more like an aging man whose K. level was waning and who was perhaps trying to recover the energy through the use of sexual tantra. > l can relate to what you say about taking medicines. Before, l never had a problem taking medicine. Now, l can hardly take anything, which can be quite worrisome. l was unable to take antibiotics a couple years ago, and an inability to take those can put you back in the 19th century real quick when it comes to medical treatment. l shy away from the anthrax stories, figuring that a few spores would likely do me in. l remember El Collie had a real rough time not long ago because she couldn't take antibiotics. I'm sorry to hear that. I can't take the older ones, but I have taken a couple of new ones, like Ceftin. >l'm sure you're right in saying El has accounted for CFS being triggered by k. I don't think she said exactly that, though I could be wrong. I simply think there's a connection, but it doesn't seem clear exactly what it is. > l haven't had any contact with El for over a year now -- last l heard she was really having severe physical problems herself related to her energy. When l see someone at her level struggle as much as she has in recent years, it reminds me of the difficulty in being able to predict or account for everything that happens in the course of a k experience. As you say, the factors we would normally look to begin to seem far too simplistic. > > > Thank you for passing along that quote. l agree with you that spiritual realization -- the knowledge that in the ultimate sense we're always truly safe -- is the critical factor in all this. From a physical and social standpoint the last 10 years have been a huge waste -- an exercise in nothing but frustration. But if l can KNOW that it's truly about something far greater than what merely appears on the surface, then it will have all been worthwhile. l can't honestly say l'm there yet. ln my better moments l see it the way you do: that this is what it's all been about. I'm sure those years haven't been a waste - I think you've grown and developed through your difficulties. I think there's always a reason for these things, even though we may not see it for some time. And I did mean what I said, that your presence here contributes to the growth and development of the planet. Whatever you do influences everything else. >Jan: >Sorry to hear you've not been well and still are having health problems. In the course of events i always noticed too late that K. and a mind-body often relate like tuning and an engine - the system becomes much more powerful but much more critical too. Could be. I got bronchitis first - the doc thinks that triggereed the CFS again and everything else I'm carrying, Candida and so on. I was surprised I got bronchitis, I hadn't caught anhything for a long time. But maybe stress is the answer. >In my case, the willingness to experiment instead of to argue, and to take the risks involved, worked like a compass. Well, that's what I did too, followed my guidance completely. >So i can't complain but instead can only confess that K. has been (still is) a great joy. Physical condition (energy) and healing like that of a youth. Mine was top-notch for some years, until this. The K. is still strong, maybe stronger than ever. But the physical illness makes it all more difficult - it's erratic, and I'm taking medicine to hold down the adrenalin, which I think also damps the K. in some ways. >Jill: >Your news about El having ongoing physical problems, and Dharma, >your return of CFS symptoms, are both sad things to hear. Dharma, I >hope this clears for you soon. I tend toward your own >interpretation, that this may be a time of final clearing. Well, I hadn't been thinking that. It's what I thought a few years ago. > Part of the equation for people like you, El, and I is that the >activity of kundalini is inextricably wound up with CFS in ways that >are difficult to understand and sort out. But it has been my own >experience that the most painful and incapacitating experiences with >CFS have been followed by periods of increased health and clarity, >much in the same way that times of intense k activity brings >increased awareness and sensitivity to unpleasant stored physical, >emotional, and psychic contents before clearing them out. Interesting - just before this an on-line friend suggested that we might explore our fears. Then this happened, and I found all kinds of fears arising - I think because of the spinal inflammation and the chakras being affected. It certainly brought up everything to be worked through again. > Health and wholeness comes slowly through many of these periods, >but it comes eventually in strength and fullness. I hope you're right - I'm just trusting that whatever happens will be for the best. I heard an interview this weekend with the writer of the NY Times bestseller, Seabiscuit. She has had CFS for 14 years and is pretty much incapacited, with her health situation continuing to decline. Her book came out in March and she has yet to see it in a bookstore, remaining pretty totally housebound. I am grateful that those of us on this and other lists who have this disease have not been incapacited to this extreme for such a long period of time, but I feel for her. Her experience of loss of years of functioning, and the sense of unknowing and helplessnes is part of what all with CFS experience. Not knowing the etiology of the disease, and not knowing when we will feel fine and when we will not be able to function at all, is in some ways more difficult than the pain and incapacity itself. Yes, for me it means I can't make plans, just have to wait and see what's coming. Well, my dad always said life is an adventure. And my son points out that an adventure doesn't have to be all fun and wonderful - it's still an adventure!! Love, Dharma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2001 Report Share Posted November 29, 2001 In a message dated 11/29/01 12:50:36 AM Pacific Standard Time, deva writes: << When I heard about the scandal of his later years, I was surprised because when young he was brahmacharya - celibate and virgin. I read what one or two of the women said about what happened - it did not sound like torrid affairs. It sounded more like an aging man whose K. level was waning and who was perhaps trying to recover the energy through the use of sexual tantra. >> Hi Dharma, Regarding Muktananda: not to belabor this aspect, but thought l might be able to add a little to the above. The accounts regarding his sexual activites appear to be quite varied: l've read some in which the women involved described the encounters as not all that sexual in nature, as if he were having intercourse with them for reasons other than sexual -- perhaps energetic, as you note. However, there are other accounts that are more disturbing: of his having a special little cubby hole which he used to spy on young girls (ages 12, 13, etc) while they were naked, and also that he repeatedly had sex with very young girls who were barely adolescent. l can't give a source for this right now, but may be able to dig it up for anyone interested. Of all the past masters l've read about, l find Muktananda to be one of the most puzzling, unless one s to the usual facile rationales for these things. He clearly was a master with great power who helped awaken and guide alot of people along the way, yet ..... love, jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2001 Report Share Posted December 1, 2001 Hi Vicki, you don't know how many times think of you those who don't answer and don't usually write too much , Thanks, honey, I think of you too and always enjoy reading what you write. I can't write much or often just now because of illness, but I'm reading the list when I can. Love, Dharma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.