Guest guest Posted December 10, 2001 Report Share Posted December 10, 2001 On 12/10/01 at 10:09 PM MikeSuesserott wrote: ºDear Jan, º ºif you believe musicians go into samadhi, it's OK with me. :-) Let's agree ºon a friendly disagreement here. Not a matter of disagreement but one of perception. Even Purohit Swami mentions that musicians can forget their nearest and dearest, forget to eat, drink or go to the bathroom, live for music only. That isn't much different from Ramana's behavior during the "cave" period is it? º ºAbout the higher/lower thing, you may be right that this terminology can ºlead to misunderstandings. What I mean by higher is, "with greater ºawareness ºof the Divine". Not meant to be judgmental, but perhaps you might agree ºthat ºthere can be different degrees of that awareness. Obviously, this is ºtotally ºindependent of a person being a householder or not. The term "awareness of the divine" still suggests a subject - object relationship. Whereas, awareness just "is". That can never be forgotten, lost, or anything else. The musicians and samadhi practitioners still live in an "in" and "out" - the potential for that has to be emptied before it dissolves. And that emptying concerns many so called "personal" affairs - hence, householder or contemplative does matter - unless the family members are "initiated companions". º ºAs regards your ordeal, I am very sorry you had to suffer so much. I never ºhad such a trying experience in more than thirty years of going inside in ºmeditation. In the beginning of my sadhana I got painful headaches when ºtrying to meditate, but after some time this problem went away. Either was that misunderstood or it wasn't emphasized enough - for me there was no ordeal as "more than death" is impossible and that had proved to be quite comforting But without such an anchor, the rapid transformations caused by Shakti would have caused at least temporary insanity... So in my case, eight months compressed in what otherwise, could have been thirty years. Quite a blessing, and no obligations. Peace, Jan º ºTake care, º ºMichael º º º-----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- ºVon: jb [kvy9] ºGesendet: Monday, December 10, 2001 13:32 ºAn: ºBetreff: Re: Samadhi (was: Reincarnation) º º ºOn 12/10/01 at 12:29 PM MikeSuesserott wrote: º º:Dear Jan, º: º:I appreciate your point that sometimes musicians play in a kind of trance º:state, and that to continue it some of them may seek substitutes. This is ºa º:very correct and true analysis. º ºOh - apparently, you're not familiar with deep states of absorption, ºwhere no sense of time, self, world do exist. This happens to many artists ºbut ºthey are not aware of it, don't have the knowledge. And it can happen to ºscientists too, like for instance Einstein. º: º:Only I don't think that that trance state has anything to do with ºSavikalpa º:Samadhi. It is a much, much lower state - a state that is obviously º:dependent on the senses as well as on ego, manas, and buddhi. A state, º:also, º:that leaves one frustrated once one comes out of it. And, as you are ºsaying º:yourself, God has nothing to do with it. º º(II,42) It is Sawitarka Samadhi, illumination with sentiment, when mind is ºstill muddled with doubt as to word and its meaning. º ºHow come that yogis, although 100% dependent on mind and body, ºyet use terminology like higher/lower? In that kind of classification, what ºwould ºbe termed the life of a householder, compared to that of a contemplative? º: º:If this were samadhi, I for one wouldn't want it. º ºMost likely then, you wouldn't want Shakti firing up every cell of the ºmind-body either, as ºit will burn out all opinions into mootness irrespective of like/dislike, ºhigher/lower. ºPerhaps a good idea, praying to remain exempted from what certainly would ºbe ºclassified as "the ultimate ordeal". º ºCheers, ºJan º: º:Best wishes, º: º:Michael º º º º º º/join º º º º º ºAll paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, ºperceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside ºback into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than ºthe ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of ºAwareness. ºAwareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is ºwhere the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal ºBeing. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, ºspontaneously ºarising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. º º º ºYour use of is subject to º º º º º/join º º º º º ºAll paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, ºperceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and ºsubside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not ºdifferent than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the ºnature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. ºIt is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the ºFinality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of ºSelf-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome ºall to a. º º º ºYour use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2001 Report Share Posted December 10, 2001 On 12/11/01 at 1:00 AM MikeSuesserott wrote: ºDear Jan, º ºin that case, define "Jan", "Mike", "dog", "difference", "eat", "bathroom". Just labels. Not different from other labels. º ºI like people who fight for hopeless cases and lost causes. :-)) I don't fight - contrary to your "case" there is nothing to unite with nor anything to be united with. No doubt there is even an appropriate quote on that topic Happy life-long uniting though - one label with another? ) What if a label resists? Jan º ºTake care, º ºMichael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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