Staying in the clear 3 (was RE: Sat Chit Ananda and suffering)

[Guest guest]

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Third of three email copies

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Dear Mark

 

You response goes further in apologies than what you indicated before...,

thank you for that.

 

One small thing first though, before I get further with this.

 

You wrote:

>>> You were never personally invited in my home. You and your wife were

invited to share dinner with me and my family. You announced your presence

in Haarlem and basically invited yourself into our home.<<<

 

You did invite me over. You did pick me up and walked me to your house. You

did not at any point say: "Do not come."

You are not the person to have trouble speaking your mind as your email

exchanges attest. The fact that you did not speak those words, must have

meant that there was some purpose to all this.

>>>You announced your presence in Haarlem and basically invited yourself

into our home.<<<

 

I did not 'happen' to be in Haarlem, I took a train especially to come to

visit you. This was for me a visit to meet with "Mark Valentine" the poet

whom I admire, to visit with "" and her family, "Mira" a

wonderful lady whose grace and equanimious judgement I admire.

That Emmy could not come, had to do with the fact that she was invited to a

family reunion with her sisters and brothers in Castricum, which was an

important event. As she did not know you and Mira other than through me

mentioning your poems, she weighed the importance of events and decided to

visit her relatives, many of whom she had not seen in many years.

During a phone conversation with you, I did get at some point a vague

impression, (through a slightly off intonation in your voice maybe) that

something was amiss. The welcome may have been be full hearted... But then,

we have to go by words that are said, I usually do, as second guessing can

be one of the greatest stumbling blocks in communication.

 

Back to your apology, first to the end.

You wrote:

>>> In an attempt to dissuade you from such foolish action, I will inform

you that the only satisfaction any court of international jurisdiction, if

such a court even exists, could offer you is monetary. I am a poor man..<<<

 

You are ill informed, Mark. Dan Winter, whom you may know, was the recipient

of similar court action, although very much more complex as both copyright

infringement and defamation were involved. The outcome and verdict was not

monetary at all.

 

You are a "poor man", you say. Do you think that at any point it was my

intention to get money out of you?

No matter what, this statement of yours, says more than what you may have

intended to say. In a strange sort of way you admit to the likelihood that

you would lose in court... Why otherwise would you have mentioned that you

are a poor man. If you would have been fully convinced that you were in the

right, you would not even have brought this up. You would have gladly let me

carry out my "foolish action" and let me lose my shirt and honour at the

same time.

 

This is actually enough for me to conclude that you have become aware of

your, as you say, "any errors in good judgment" and I thank you for that, I

fully appreciate that.

>>>Please accept this email as a second attempt and sincere at a formal

apology for any errors in good judgment I made while addressing you in

cyberspace.

You have my explicit permission to make free use of it as best pleases you

including forwarding it to the e-groups lists and list owners that are of

concern to you.<<<

 

Although it is not really my responsibility to do this, I will be happy to

follow up on this to send this email exchange to the three lists involved.

As well, I will include my two previous private emails to you, which dealt

with this issue.

>>> For my part, I leave it up to the discretion of the list owner's as to

whether or not they wish to delete the post at which you are offended from

their historical archives. <<<

 

Same here, Mark, I leave that up to their discretion as well. (Harsha

actually already deleted the offensive email from the archives of the

list.)

 

In summary, Mark, for me this suffices as a fully satisfactory closure to

this unfortunate cyber event.

May we forget this episode... or better yet, may we transform our

disagreement into agreement, so that we are actually closer together, rather

than farther apart.

 

It is just unfortunate that you wrote:

>>>PS:

I am blocking all further e-mail from you!<<<

But you know, that is you prerogative.

 

My dear Mark, your full apologies are accepted.

 

With warm Regards and Love,

Wim

 

 

 

White Wolfe [valemar.1]

Thursday, December 13, 2001 8:57 AM

Wim Borsboom

Staying in the clear

 

 

Staying in the clear

 

 

Wim:

 

You certainly are a fly in the ointment!

 

Please accept this email as a second attempt and sincere at a formal apology

for any errors in good judgment I made while addressing you in cyberspace.

You have my explicit permission to make free use of it as best pleases you

including forwarding it to the e-groups lists and list owners that are of

concern to you. For my part, I leave it up to the discretion of the list

owner's as to whether or not they wish to delete the post at which you are

offended from their historical archives. It is a matter to which I remain

personally indifferent. However and with all due respect, may I suggest

that your demands for public satisfaction can only serve to draw further

attention to a mere breach in good manners that can only made better as it

is forgot. I never have and never will slander you. Actually, I never even

bother myself to think about you except when you choose as you are once

again right now, to intrude into my life. You were never personally invited

in my home. You and your wife were invited to share dinner with me and my

family. You announced your presence in Haarlem and basically invited

yourself into our home. We graciously over-looked your rudeness and tried

to deflect you persistent attempts to offer us counseling. My solitary

public expression of contempt for you as a spiritual advisor in cyberspace

was never intended as libel and is not a part of any systematic effort on my

part to damage your reputation. It was merely a rash defensive reaction to

your persistent unsolicited attempts to continue to offer me spiritual

guidance via email. Hence it was relegated to a mere footnote included in a

post script. If you wish further satisfaction and feel you are entitled to

it, by all means please avail yourself of legal counsel. In an attempt to

dissuade you from such foolish action, I will inform you that the only

satisfaction any court of international jurisdiction, if such a court even

exists, could offer you is monetary. I am a poor man.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark C. Valentine

 

PS:

I am blocking all further e-mail from you!

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Jeannie,

 

You wrote:

> If I may put my two cents in...........

> where there is heart, there is love

> at times we say things that are not proper

> but if we consider our lists as family, the world as family...........

> do we than sue each other over what is said.

 

The reason that this had to be stopped in no uncertain terms is, that if it

would not have been stopped, the abuse and manipulation would have gone on,

some of it was already happening in a almost pernicious way. There was

another story behind this which, happily, has been stopped as well.

When the negative illusion of malign aims at the positive reality of love

and truth, positive reality will stand up for itself, reality will and can

stick out its neck as it is not vulnerable, not afraid of losing its head.

There is no fear in unconditional reality, unconditional love and

unconditional truth.

 

As you say:<<<where there is heart , there is love>>>, truly so, but heart

and love were missing in that what brought this about. Luckily we have

international legal recourse that actually covers the internet, which can be

used when other measures don't work anymore, in this case I had to almost go

as far as that... Believe me, I have quite some experience with this kind of

thing.

 

Jean Horn wrote:

> If one believes in love than worrying about slander is beneath you.

 

There is nothing "beneath" someone living in love, truth and reality... When

slander as an expression of evil illusion tries to intervene with divine

reality, reality prevails.

Fear and meekness is no more a slavish response to perpetrators of malice,

brought about by them in their victims to get them down to that state of

being... "beneath."

The worry was not about myself, but about some other people who were brought

into this as well.

> Who is wrong, who is right is meaningless.

 

Pain and hurt though, brought about by the confusing duality between right

and wrong, are unacceptable, and that has to be prevented... that is

meaningful

> As long as you believe in yourself, it doesn't matter what others

> say and things said on the internetwell they are gone the next day.<<<

 

That actually is not true, it festers, and I saw some people being affected

by it.

> Love Is and it doesn't give a damn about words! I Am what I Am and I am

not

words.

 

When you truly are what you are, you are a testimony to that and you will

express that, unless one gives up expressing altogether, well one may as

well cease to exist.

 

Love, Jeannie, Wim

(being happy to exist and express)

 

 

 

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