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Jody/: Digest Number 1514

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Jody, I am not interested in censoring you or your views. We have had other

discussions on such matters here before. I appreciate the information you

give and people can follow up as it suits them.

 

Please do keep the main purpose of the Sangha and the list description in

mind.

 

Love to all

Harsha

 

 

 

jodyrrr [jodyrrr]

Friday, December 14, 2001 8:31 PM

Re: Digest Number 1514

 

Hi Harsha.

 

I understand completely the reluctance

to see the life of a great saint reflected

in the context of a disagreeable sexual

preference. However, until you have read

the book, you do not have the complete

picture.

 

Kripal makes his case not on a Westerner's

misunderstanding of Indian male affection,

but on a rereading of the Gospel in the

original Bengali. Nikhilananda left out

a number of passages in his translation

that very clearly indicate Ramakrishna's

tendencies.

 

Kripal's book has garnered much admiration

in the Academy of Religious Studies, and

it has made the study of Ramakrishna much

more prevalent in the religious studies

community.

 

My point in bringing this up is to

illustrate the fact that Self realization

does not result in cookie-cutter sainthood,

and that the actual lives of the saints

can be quite different from the traditional

rendering of them.

 

As such, I believe it to be entirely on

topic here. In fact, I believe it to be

vitally important that people understand

that the great saints are just as human

as the rest of us. Despite the disagreeable

nature of the illustration, the story of

Ramakrishna makes this case.

 

However, it is not my intention to create

discord on the list, so I'll leave it to

you to censor my activity as you see fit.

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Harsha,

Nor do I intend to cause discord. However, the definition of what

consitutes a saint seems to have relevance. I suppose it can be what

is decided for any specific discussion. Certainly, the nature of

saintly participation in the world seems important.

Since my perspective on the specific comment which initially

sparked my remarks is clear, I have no problem dropping the subject

altogether. It's not important to me that anyone else agree, as long

as it's understood that there is not universal assent to the

attribution of saintliness when the such negative behaviour is

present.

I would not like to think that a "realized" person must be

considered an "uber mensch" and beyond all extrinsic constraints.

It may be that these things are not particularly pleasant to

consider, but life is not merely pleasant. If we shy from difficult

or homely issues, we may, to our spiritual detriment, find ourselves

with unresolved tendencies of mind.

This will be my last comment on the subject, regardless of how

untenable my position becomes under the scrutiny of wiser persons. I

continue to err with remarkable regularity, but am certainly willing

to learn.

 

Regards,

 

Gubster Bug

 

 

, "Harsha" <harsha-hkl@h...> wrote:

> Jody, I am not interested in censoring you or your views. We have

had other

> discussions on such matters here before. I appreciate the

information you

> give and people can follow up as it suits them.

>

> Please do keep the main purpose of the Sangha and the list

description in

> mind.

>

> Love to all

> Harsha

>

>

>

> jodyrrr [jodyrrr@h...]

> Friday, December 14, 2001 8:31 PM

>

> Re: Digest Number 1514

>

> Hi Harsha.

>

> I understand completely the reluctance

> to see the life of a great saint reflected

> in the context of a disagreeable sexual

> preference. However, until you have read

> the book, you do not have the complete

> picture.

>

> Kripal makes his case not on a Westerner's

> misunderstanding of Indian male affection,

> but on a rereading of the Gospel in the

> original Bengali. Nikhilananda left out

> a number of passages in his translation

> that very clearly indicate Ramakrishna's

> tendencies.

>

> Kripal's book has garnered much admiration

> in the Academy of Religious Studies, and

> it has made the study of Ramakrishna much

> more prevalent in the religious studies

> community.

>

> My point in bringing this up is to

> illustrate the fact that Self realization

> does not result in cookie-cutter sainthood,

> and that the actual lives of the saints

> can be quite different from the traditional

> rendering of them.

>

> As such, I believe it to be entirely on

> topic here. In fact, I believe it to be

> vitally important that people understand

> that the great saints are just as human

> as the rest of us. Despite the disagreeable

> nature of the illustration, the story of

> Ramakrishna makes this case.

>

> However, it is not my intention to create

> discord on the list, so I'll leave it to

> you to censor my activity as you see fit.

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