How to level with levels... (what a wonderful thread)

[Guest guest]

Dear Eric, Greg, Michael, Harsha, Dan, Jerry, Jody, Bruce, Suzan, Antoine,

Lynette et all.

 

About levels.

 

I realize that here, in this wonderful thread of emails, (which Harsha

catalysed by mentioning Sahajman's rising to higher and higher levels) that

we are talking about levels of attainment in enlightenment, realization and

liberation (moksha). I do not have too much of a problem with these kind of

levels, especially when it is treated in a humorous vein, the only problem I

have with it is that the imagery that accompanies these 'attainment levels'

is showing a rather one dimensional focus in quite a limiting three

dimensional world description.

This imagery deals just a bit too much with a vertical direction, maybe

caused by the use of terminology and symbology to do with 'raising one's

consciousness, the Viagra syndrome or other topics that constantly raise

their heads. (And often makes one's hair stand on end.)

 

::::- ))))

 

The 'cubic lander' view of enlightenment (E), realization ® and liberation

(L) in terms of **vertical levels**, is just a wee bit more evolved than the

'flat lander' view of E, R and L, of which the image of the **linear path**

is a reflection.

 

For the sake of argument here, and in order to draw a more complete

illustration of, and to reach a fuller understanding of levels (ahum) to do

with enlightenment, realization, and liberation (ERL) I would like to pull

this concept of levels into a more physical and concrete guided

visualization, while not focussing on wisdom content. I know that this way

of looking at the physical aspect of levels is rather limiting as it does

not seem to deal with its lofty contents... at least not on first sight.

So initially, what follows is quite a meagre view, not larded with nuggets

of golden insights, but bear with me, we will get this right later.

 

As I have mentioned plenty of times now, I have travelled, so to say,

various levels quite extensively and intensively in 7 distinct NDEs from

when I was very young, as well as in what is now my normal day to day life.

 

Let me describe, how I traverse those levels in terms of multi-dimensional

physicality while, as promised, I shall not mention the lofty contents of

the flights.

 

This multidimensional dynamics, (which I will guide you through a little

later) reflect the idea of levels better, it is also more in terms of

conceptual viewpoints that are currently in use in the scientific

environment.

The term 'evolution' is there of course, as well as 'involution' and

'devolution', 'rolled up' dimensions, as well as dimensions 'rolled in' and

'rolled out', and then there are David Bohm's wonderful terms 'enfoldment'

and 'implicate order'.

 

The common, and I repeat, not so complete way is of looking at levels in

quite a linear, horizontal (path) as well as vertical (levels) format.

 

As we are here now anyways and supposedly in freedom, love, light and

happiness, how can we dynamically visualize this state, what is the

infrastructure of this BINDU?

 

(Encyclopaedia Britannica: Sr Yantra and Bindu, the dynamic interplay is

understood to be an expression of all the cosmic manifestations, beginning

and ending with union at the centre, visualized as a dot or bindu.)

 

And is there a point to this?

 

Yes, as it will help us to clearer recognize our already individual, mutual

and reciprocal creative and dynamic divine endeavours...

 

I did get the idea of this new description during my second to last NDE,

about five years ago now, while I was in Holland.

 

-------------

Imagine a spider web,

Maybe draw a nice one..., why not...

 

If we disregard the thickness of the thread, this is mostly a 2D shape, is

it not?

 

Notice the spiral thread as well as the radiating threads,

Notice especially the nodes.

The nodes are important especially as we will now:

 

IMAGINE THIS SPIDER WEB IN 3D.

 

It will not be so easy to draw this, maybe Dan Winter (who has revived

himself in Holland) can do justice to this description. Maybe Dan, are you

there? (or S... you have his email address, can you alert him?) maybe Dan

has already concocted something we could use.

 

Anyway, can you kind of visualize this 3 dimensional spider web...?

Can you see the nodes...?

Imagine now that the spiral and the radiating lines are being dissolved, so

you just have those nodes (bijas).

Now imagine that these nodes are connected by bundled lines of pure

energy...

 

I saw them in iridescent and pearlescent topazy hues...

 

Now imagine that you, like an angel, are tumbling freely through this

CONSTELLATION...

 

Tumbling inwards and outwards, sideways, any which way...

 

As you move radially in and out, you get into finer or grosser, more or

lesser intricate dimensions...

 

Can you imagine that you are a wonderful creature who can traverse from node

to node in timelessness, playing 'hide and seek' in spatial nooks an

crannies, overcoming all spatial limitations, as you are not getting stuck

on the sticky wiring of time and space?

 

This is kind of how the levels work...

 

Now, one more thing...

 

As this is not all... This whole constellation also gyrates and rotates in

at least three dimensions *at the same time*...centrifugally as well as

centripetally...

 

AH

 

TO BE

 

BEEE

 

HEEEEEEEE

 

ME OH MY

 

YOU AND I

 

Do you get it?

Do you want to play with me?

 

Loving, the whirling way, Wim

 

PS.

Your are transcending, ascending and descending... a true avatar in full

function (I won't talk about the lofty stuff here :-)

 

 

_

I want to keep this thread as part of this post...

----------

-------------

 

Mike, Greg & Friends,

 

In line with the messages below, when Shri Ramakrishna was asked by a

devotee who had recently come into contact with the teachings of

Theosophy, if there were subtle beings who served as our teachers and

masters on otner plains, Ramakrishna answered, "If you can believe

me, Yes." In all the writings and direct quotes attributed to

Ramakrishna, especially in the Gospel of Ramakrishna by "M", this is

the ohnly mention that I can remember in which he alludes

to "levels", as all his emphasis was centered on the direct

experience of the Self as Kali.

 

Yours in the bonds,

eric

 

 

 

, MikeSuesserott@t... wrote:

> Dear Greg-being,

> Earth Plane,

>

> I don't know what problem there should be with planes and beings.

They do

> exist in the same way that your house exists, no more and no less.

Their

> number will depend on how they are counted. If you don't believe

> Yoganandaji, here is what Sri Ramana says:

>

> --

--

> Q : People talk of Vaikuntha, Kailasa, Indraloka, Chandraloka [the

Hindu

> heavens]. Do they really exist?

>

> A: Certainly. You can rest assured that they all exist. There also

a swami

> like me will be found seated on a couch and disciples will also be

seated

> around him. They will ask something and he will say something in

reply.

> Everything will be more or less like this. What of that? If one sees

> Chandraloka, one will ask for Indraloka, and after Indraloka,

Vaikuntha and

> after Vaikuntha, Kailasa and so on, and the mind goes on wandering.

Where is

> shanti [peace]? If shanti is required, the only correct method of

securing

> it is by self-enquiry. Through self-enquiry Self-realization is

possible.

> If one realizes the Self, one can see all these worlds within

one's Self.

> The source of everything is one's own Self, and if one realizes the

Self,

> one will not find anything different from the Self. Then these

questions

> will not arise. There may or may not be a Vaikuntha or a Kailasa

but it is a

> fact that you are here, isn't it? How are you here? Where are you?

After you

> know about these things, you can think of all those worlds.

> --

---

>

> This is exactly the teaching of Yoganandaji also. He didn't found a

> "Beings-and-Planes Fellowship", he founded "Self-Realization

Fellowship". He

> didn't place any importance on these planes except to tell us that

they do

> exist. Yoganandaji placed the utmost importance on developing love

for God

> and ultimately, by following the path he gave, union with God.

>

> However, he would also caution against deluding oneself by

believing to have

> realized the Self just by virtue of having acquired an intellectual

> understanding. Mind is given to many delusions; it is good to have a

> yardstick against which to check one's realization.

>

> Again, these are Sri Ramana's words: "If one realizes the Self, one

can see

> all these worlds within one's Self." Yoganandaji said the very same

thing (I

> repeat from a former post): "Just as a normal human being knows and

feels

> when his body is being touched, in the same way a realized person

knows and

> feels, as if in his own body, everything that is going on in all of

the

> universes in all the three worlds in all creation."

>

> Love,

>

> Michael

>

>

> > -----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----

> > Von: goode@D... [goode@D...]

> > Gesendet: Monday, December 17, 2001 02:18

> > An: ;

> > Betreff: Re: Re: Realization (was: Mie/Smadhi/

Drugs)

> >

> >

> > Mike,

> >

> > This is partly a rhetorical question, needs no answer.

> >

> > If you are aligning yourself with a teaching that has levels and

> > beings - have you investigated whether it is the right teaching?

> > Are you recommending it to others? Some teachings have 3 levels,

> > some have 5, some have 7, some have 8, some 10, others 49, and

> > some even have 172 levels. Have you merely landed on a

> > particular teaching, or is it a bhakti connection, or have you

> > examined them all and made an accurate, informed choice?

> >

> > Love,

> >

> > --Greg

> >

> > At 02:24 PM 12/16/01 +0100, MikeSuesserott@t... wrote:

> > >Dear friends,

> > >

> > >thank you for this overwhelmingly kind, and in parts also witty,

> > response.

> > >It is truly to the credit of this very special list that even

> > though there

> > >might be some little disagreement, it has taken on this

wonderful form.

> > >

> > >I have carefully read each of your posts and hope to have

understood what

> > >each one of you is trying to say. You may be surprised to hear

that I

> > >believe we are not far apart here at all. But rather than try to

explain

> > >myself, please allow me to quote from

Yoganandaji's "Autobiography of a

> > >Yogi" where Sri Yukteswarji speaks about causal-bodied beings -

> > the almost

> > >free souls who have transcended physical and astral bondage and

are no

> > >longer subject to reincarnation even in the astral world. Of

> > course, you may

> > >or may not accept this as true, that is with each one of you.

> > >

> > >Having spoken about the astral cosmos, Sri Yukteswarji goes on

to say:

> > >

> > >"The causal world is indescribably subtle. ... If by [this]

superhuman

> > >concentration one succeeded in converting or resolving the two

> > cosmoses with

> > >all their complexities into sheer ideas, he would then reach the

causal

> > >world and stand on the borderline of fusion between mind and

> > matter. There

> > >one perceives all created things - solids, liquids, gases,

electricity,

> > >energy, all beings, gods, men, animals, plants, bacteria - as

forms of

> > >consciousness, just as a man can close his eyes and realize that

> > he exists,

> > >even though his body is invisible to his physical eyes and is

> > present only

> > >as an idea.

> > >

> > >"Whatever a human being can do in fancy, a causal being can do

> > in reality.

> > >The most colossal imaginative human intelligence is able, in

> > mind only, to

> > >range from one extreme of thought to another, to skip mentally

> > from planet

> > >to planet, or tumble endlessly down a pit of eternity, or soar

rocketlike

> > >into the galaxied canopy, or scintillate like a searchlight over

> > milky ways

> > >and starry spaces. But beings in the causal world have a much

greater

> > >freedom, and can effortlessly manifest their thoughts into

instant

> > >objectivity, without any material or astral obstruction or karmic

> > >limitation.

> > >

> > >"Causal beings realize that the physical cosmos is not primarily

> > constructed

> > >of electrons, nor is the astral cosmos basically composed of

lifetrons -

> > >both in reality are created from the minutest particles of God-

thought,

> > >chopped and divided by maya, the law of relativity that

apparently

> > >intervenes to separate creation from its Creator.

> > >

> > >"Souls in the causal world recognize one another as

> > individualized points of

> > >joyous Spirit; their thought-things are the only objects that

> > surround them.

> > >Causal beings see the difference between their bodies and

thoughts to be

> > >merely ideas. As a man, closing his eyes, can visualize a

dazzling white

> > >light or a faint blue haze, so causal beings, by thought alone

> > are able to

> > >see, hear, smell, taste, touch; they create anything, or

> > dissolve it, by the

> > >power of cosmic mind.

> > >

> > >"Both death and rebirth in the causal world are in thought.

Causal-bodied

> > >beings feast only on the ambrosia of eternally new knowledge.

They drink

> > >from the springs of peace, roam on the trackless soil of

> > perceptions, swim

> > >in the ocean-endlessness of bliss. Lo! see their bright

> > thought-bodies zoom

> > >past trillions of spirit-created planets, fresh bubbles of

universes,

> > >wisdom-stars, spectral dreams of golden nebulae on the skyey

bosom of

> > >Infinity!

> > >

> > >"Many beings remain for thousands of years in the causal cosmos.

> > By deeper

> > >ecstasies the freed soul then withdraws itself from the little

> > causal body

> > >and puts on the vastness of the causal cosmos. All the separate

eddies of

> > >ideas, particularized waves of power, love, will, joy, peace,

intuition,

> > >calmness, self-control, and concentration melt into the

> > ever-joyous Sea of

> > >Bliss. No longer does the soul have to experience its joy as an

> > >individualized wave of consciousness, but is merged into the One

Cosmic

> > >Ocean, with all its waves - eternal laughter, thrills, throbs.

> > >

> > >"When a soul is out of the cocoon of the three bodies it escapes

forever

> > >from the law of relativity and become the ineffable Ever-

Existent. Behold

> > >the butterfly of Omnipresence, its wings etched with stars and

moons and

> > >suns! The soul expanded into Spirit remains alone in the region

> > of lightless

> > >light, darkless dark, thoughtless thought, intoxicated with the

> > ecstasy of

> > >joy in God's dream of cosmic creation.

> > >...

> > >

> > >"When a soul finally gets out of the three jars of bodily

delusions, it

> > >becomes one with the Infinite without any loss of individuality.

> > Christ had

> > >won this final freedom even before he was born as Jesus.

> > >...

> > >

> > >"The undeveloped man must undergo countless earthly and astral

and causal

> > >incarnations in order to emerge from his three bodies. A master

> > who achieves

> > >final freedom may elect to return to earth as a prophet to bring

> > other human

> > >beings back to God...

> > >

> > >Love,

> > >

> > >Michael

> > >

 

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