Guest guest Posted December 18, 2001 Report Share Posted December 18, 2001 The Revival of Self-love by Jean-pierre de Caussade from "Spiritual Letters" One of self-love's subtle and unperceived illusions is to seek to discover the stage reached in your mystical dying, under pretext of getting to know what it must do to make that death in you still more thorough. In this life you will never make this discovery, nor is it to your advantage to do so. For even in the case of a soul that has completely died to the self, there is the risk of the self's revival if this discovery be made. This, because self-love's satisfaction at such an assurance would be so excessive that it would revive, and enter upon a new life more subtle and more difficult to destroy than the old. O God! how insidious is self-love! Twisting like a snake, only too often it succeeds in preserving its life in the face of mortal threats. There is no illusion more deceptive than this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2001 Report Share Posted December 18, 2001 , "Gloria Lee" <glee@c...> wrote: > The Revival of Self-love > by Jean-pierre de Caussade > from "Spiritual Letters" > One of self-love's subtle and unperceived illusions is to seek to discover the stage reached in your mystical dying, under pretext of getting to know what it must do to make that death in you still more thorough. > > In this life you will never make this discovery, nor is it to your advantage to do so. For even in the case of a soul that has completely died to the self, there is the risk of the self's revival if this discovery be made. This, because self-love's satisfaction at such an assurance would be so excessive that it would revive, and enter upon a new life more subtle and more difficult to destroy than the old. > > O God! how insidious is self-love! Twisting like a snake, only too often it succeeds in preserving its life in the face of mortal threats. There is no illusion more deceptive than this. > Why worry? Harsha > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2001 Report Share Posted December 18, 2001 - harshaimtm Tuesday, December 18, 2001 2:34 PM Re: speaking of levels , "Gloria Lee" <glee@c...> wrote:> The Revival of Self-love> by Jean-pierre de Caussade> from "Spiritual Letters" > One of self-love's subtle and unperceived illusions is to seek to discover the stage reached in your mystical dying, under pretext of getting to know what it must do to make that death in you still more thorough. > > In this life you will never make this discovery, nor is it to your advantage to do so. For even in the case of a soul that has completely died to the self, there is the risk of the self's revival if this discovery be made. This, because self-love's satisfaction at such an assurance would be so excessive that it would revive, and enter upon a new life more subtle and more difficult to destroy than the old. > > O God! how insidious is self-love! Twisting like a snake, only too often it succeeds in preserving its life in the face of mortal threats. There is no illusion more deceptive than this. > Why worry?Harsha .......... Indeed, that is exactly the advice he gave here! Why be so overly concerned with what level one may be at? In the language paradigm of 17th century Catholic mystics, self-love equates to narcissism or ego, not healthy self-esteem. He is actually saying, "don't worry, be happy". Surrender to God's will is like a code word for let it be, find peace in the present moment. Jean Pierre de Caussade in The Inner Treasure We must offer ourselves to God like a clean, smooth canvas and not worry ourselves about what God may choose to paint on it, but at each moment, feel only the stroke of His brush.[...] The only condition neccessary for this state of self surrender is the present moment in which the soul, light as a feather, fluid as water, innocent as a child, responds to every movement of grace like a floating balloon. — Jean Pierre de Caussade quoted in The Inner Treasure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2001 Report Share Posted December 19, 2001 Nothing could possibly be more pernicious than a self wanting to be rid of itself (exemplified in the final paragraph, below). Not only is it utterly "self-contradictory," it's also totally unnecessary. The "i" is merely a reflection of the sense of Identity pervading reality (Ramana called this "the I-I"). In order to "be light," is it necessary to get rid of shadow? Namaste, Tim / Omkara , "Gloria Lee" <glee@c...> wrote: > The Revival of Self-love > by Jean-pierre de Caussade > from "Spiritual Letters" > One of self-love's subtle and unperceived illusions is to seek to discover the stage reached in your mystical dying, under pretext of getting to know what it must do to make that death in you still more thorough. > > In this life you will never make this discovery, nor is it to your advantage to do so. For even in the case of a soul that has completely died to the self, there is the risk of the self's revival if this discovery be made. This, because self-love's satisfaction at such an assurance would be so excessive that it would revive, and enter upon a new life more subtle and more difficult to destroy than the old. > > O God! how insidious is self-love! Twisting like a snake, only too often it succeeds in preserving its life in the face of mortal threats. There is no illusion more deceptive than this. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2001 Report Share Posted December 19, 2001 tim-san....methinks you do not understand the words at all....to me it appears that the meaning of the concept behind Caussade's words is parallel to the concept of enlightenment as expressed by Ramana, but in merely different words or poetry.....in my experience a period of darkness or death and sorrow precedes each rise in consciousness which is followed by a contrasting period of light or life and more abundant joy, equanimity, compassion and love....gradually, each awakening becomes the new ground of my being and what is initially experienced as too much light becomes my normal mode of perception.....as the sacred heart awakens the fine line between sorrow and joy dissappears into transparency and duality dissolves into emptiness.....how many levels are there....one more than it is possible to conceive.....beyond infinity is my guess.....namaste....^^~~~~~~ further up and further in, white wolfe > > Nothing could possibly be more pernicious than a self wanting to be > rid of itself (exemplified in the final paragraph, below). Not only > is it utterly "self-contradictory," it's also totally unnecessary. > The "i" is merely a reflection of the sense of Identity pervading > reality (Ramana called this "the I-I"). In order to "be light," is > it necessary to get rid of shadow? > > Namaste, > > Tim / Omkara > > > , "Gloria Lee" <glee@c...> wrote: > > The Revival of Self-love > > by Jean-pierre de Caussade > > from "Spiritual Letters" > > One of self-love's subtle and unperceived illusions is to seek to > discover the stage reached in your mystical dying, under pretext of > getting to know what it must do to make that death in you still more > thorough. > > > > In this life you will never make this discovery, nor is it to your > advantage to do so. For even in the case of a soul that has > completely died to the self, there is the risk of the self's revival > if this discovery be made. This, because self-love's satisfaction at > such an assurance would be so excessive that it would revive, and > enter upon a new life more subtle and more difficult to destroy than > the old. > > > > O God! how insidious is self-love! Twisting like a snake, only too > often it succeeds in preserving its life in the face of mortal > threats. There is no illusion more deceptive than this. > > > > > > > > > > > > /join > > > > > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. > > > > Your use of is subject to > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2001 Report Share Posted December 19, 2001 .....as my spiritual ancestor dame julien always repeats to me, "all manner of things shall be well"....there is no cause to worry, indeed!!!....each new self arises from the ashes of a past self love that has gradually turned from love into self loathing forcing it to walk resolutely into the holy fire....hence, the buddhist teaching of self and no-self....(s)he who abides in israel (the witness) merely watches over these self immolations which are really nothing but transformations with satisfaction...the worm emerging from the chrysalis as a butterfly....butterflies are more real than worms or are they?....both emerged from the same original form or nothingness....perhaps, to paraphrase ken wilber, it is as he says somewhere.....it is butterflies (holons) all the way up, butterflies (holons) all the way down....where does the worm end and the butterfly begin.....love is our center....^^~~~~~~ further up and further in, white wolfe > , "Gloria Lee" <glee@c...> wrote:> > The Revival of Self-love> > by Jean-pierre de Caussade> > from "Spiritual Letters" > > One of self-love's subtle and unperceived illusions is to seek to > discover the stage reached in your mystical dying, under pretext of > getting to know what it must do to make that death in you still more > thorough. > > > > In this life you will never make this discovery, nor is it to your > advantage to do so. For even in the case of a soul that has > completely died to the self, there is the risk of the self's revival > if this discovery be made. This, because self-love's satisfaction at > such an assurance would be so excessive that it would revive, and > enter upon a new life more subtle and more difficult to destroy than > the old. > > > > O God! how insidious is self-love! Twisting like a snake, only too > often it succeeds in preserving its life in the face of mortal > threats. There is no illusion more deceptive than this. > > > > Why worry?> > Harsha> > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]> > > ------------------------ Sponsor ---------------------~-->> Need new boots for winter? Looking for a perfect gift for your shoe loving friends?> Zappos.com is the perfect fit for all your shoe needs!> http://us.click./ltdUpD/QrSDAA/ySSFAA/bpSolB/TM> ---~->> > /join> > > > > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a.> > > > Your use of Groups is subject to > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2001 Report Share Posted December 19, 2001 Hi Tim -- Well-said. We know light by shadow, and shadow by light. The *light* that is "ever-present unknown" and "totality" has no outside, no place to cast any shadow. That I am this light is so true it is never known (in the objectified, cognitive/perceptual way of knowing) ... What dies is merely the mistaken attempt to know this reality in the form of knowledge or perception, along with the "knower" that is "the shadow of perception" -- thus what now is, is the *knowing/being* that is reality: simply as it is ... there is no need to do away with a self that isn't there, nor to get rid of perception/cognition. The trees are trees, and the wind is blowing ... -- Dan > Nothing could possibly be more pernicious than a self wanting to be > rid of itself (exemplified in the final paragraph, below). Not only > is it utterly "self-contradictory," it's also totally unnecessary. > The "i" is merely a reflection of the sense of Identity pervading > reality (Ramana called this "the I-I"). In order to "be light," is > it necessary to get rid of shadow? > > Namaste, >Tim/Omkara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2001 Report Share Posted December 19, 2001 Hi Tim, Glad to see you on the cyberwaves again. Your written expression is more cogent and stylistically pleasant than ever before -- not to mention more loving! Love, --Greg At 05:53 AM 12/19/01 +0000, fewtch wrote: >Nothing could possibly be more pernicious than a self wanting to be >rid of itself (exemplified in the final paragraph, below). Not only >is it utterly "self-contradictory," it's also totally unnecessary. >The "i" is merely a reflection of the sense of Identity pervading >reality (Ramana called this "the I-I"). In order to "be light," is >it necessary to get rid of shadow? > >Namaste, > >Tim / Omkara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2001 Report Share Posted December 19, 2001 Hi Greg -- Hmmm... he seemed plenty cogent, pleasant, and loving yesterday, too ... -- Dan > Hi Tim, > > Glad to see you on the cyberwaves again. Your written expression is more cogent and stylistically pleasant than ever before -- not to mention more loving! > > Love, > > --Greg > > At 05:53 AM 12/19/01 +0000, fewtch wrote: > > >Nothing could possibly be more pernicious than a self wanting to be > >rid of itself (exemplified in the final paragraph, below). Not only > >is it utterly "self-contradictory," it's also totally unnecessary. > >The "i" is merely a reflection of the sense of Identity pervading > >reality (Ramana called this "the I-I"). In order to "be light," is > >it necessary to get rid of shadow? > > > >Namaste, > > > >Tim / Omkara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2001 Report Share Posted December 19, 2001 Yeah, I love this Tim dan330033 [dan330033] Wednesday, December 19, 2001 7:58 AM Re: speaking of levels Hi Greg -- Hmmm... he seemed plenty cogent, pleasant, and loving yesterday, too ... -- Dan > Hi Tim, > > Glad to see you on the cyberwaves again. Your written expression is more cogent and stylistically pleasant than ever before -- not to mention more loving! > > Love, > > --Greg > > At 05:53 AM 12/19/01 +0000, fewtch wrote: > > >Nothing could possibly be more pernicious than a self wanting to be > >rid of itself (exemplified in the final paragraph, below). Not only > >is it utterly "self-contradictory," it's also totally unnecessary. > >The "i" is merely a reflection of the sense of Identity pervading > >reality (Ramana called this "the I-I"). In order to "be light," is > >it necessary to get rid of shadow? > > > >Namaste, > > > >Tim / Omkara /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. Your use of is subject to --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.306 / Virus Database: 166 - Release 12/4/2001 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.306 / Virus Database: 166 - Release 12/4/2001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2001 Report Share Posted December 19, 2001 , "dan330033" <dan330033> wrote: > Hi Tim -- Hi Dan-ji, > Well-said. We know light by shadow, and > shadow by light. Light can't be said to know shadow. Shadow isn't real, merely an apparent absence of light. > The *light* that is > "ever-present unknown" and "totality" > has no outside, no place to cast any shadow. It could be said that the "outside" of light is thought. > That I am this light is so true it is never known (in the > objectified, cognitive/perceptual way of knowing) ... That way of knowing is unknown to me ;-). > What dies is merely the mistaken attempt > to know this reality in the form of knowledge > or perception, along with the "knower" > that is "the shadow of perception" -- The mistaken attempt by whom (or what)? > thus what now is, is the *knowing/being* > that is reality: simply as it is ... > there is no need to do away with a self that > isn't there, nor to get rid of perception/cognition. > The trees are trees, and the wind is blowing ... Nicely stated :-). > -- Dan Happy Holidays, tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2001 Report Share Posted December 19, 2001 , <goode@D...> wrote: > Hi Tim, > > Glad to see you on the cyberwaves again. Your written expression > is more cogent and stylistically pleasant than ever before -- not > to mention more loving! > > Love, > > --Greg Hi Greg, Glad to be here :-) Love, Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2001 Report Share Posted December 19, 2001 Hi Tim -- > Light can't be said to know shadow. Shadow isn't real, merely an > apparent absence of light. D: The light that casts a shadow is a limited light, that reflects from objects situated in space. The *light* that knows light and shadow, has no absence. > It could be said that the "outside" of light is thought. D: Yes, insofar as inside and outside are constructed by thought. > That way of knowing is unknown to me ;-). D: I don't have a clue, it means nothing to me. ;-) > The mistaken attempt by whom (or what)? D: There's just the attempt, the whom is "in" the attempt, is the basis of keeping the attempt going. With insight, the attempt dies, like a sail with no wind ... > Happy Holidays, > > tim May all your holey days be bright! Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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