Bah .. Humbug ..

[Guest guest]

People have asked me

"How do you live a Spiritual Life in the real world"

 

This particular season is as good a time to comment on this as any.

 

 

The way of the Tao - the invisible flow of the essence of Life

follows cycles within cycles - like the breath - like the tides of

the oceans - the cycles of the moons, the rotation of the planet

around the Sun, the rotation of this Solar System around a central

locus in this Galaxy .. and so on ..

 

The calendars of the times of Man are just that - man made - with

only a passing resemblance to the Way of the Tao - or the play of

the consciousness - the unseen laws of cycles within cycles - each

of which obeys its own flow - each of which affects us as we live

life on this Planet we call Earth.

 

 

For those in the Northern Hemisphere, the tide has started to come

in again - the longest night is giving way to ever shortening

nights of Winter and ever lengthening days to Spring. For you, it

is the celebration of Rebirth - the awakening from a sleep.

 

In the Southern Hemisphere, exactly the opposite is true as we move

from the longest day of Summer into ever shortening days and ever

increasing nights to Autumn. But, it shouldn't snow on Christmas

Day.

 

 

The Cycles of Birth, Death, Renewal and Decay. The Gods of the

Creator, the Destroyer and the Sustainer as it ebbs and flows - the

essence of Consciousness of a Unified field of which most are only

partly conscious.

 

As you hold on to any particular man-made time-line, so you deny

the flow and keep yourself trapped in the smaller cycle of the

individualised I.

 

 

There was once a time when people knew of these cycles within

cycles - and each passing of the season and breath was the cause

for a celebration - an honouring of the Flow of Life itself - of

which each was a part.

 

 

Human-kind has distanced itself from Life. In many cultures, these

celebrations have been bastardised - their origins buried under the

need to conform to the individualised tribe. Man's sphere of

self-referencing has become smaller and smaller as attachments

became translated into the need for ownership.

 

 

The nuclear family has become the focus and the bigger Mother of

the Church has distanced the human mother from the cycles of Mother

Earth with the promise of a Saviour as the panacea for all of the

dis-ease it has knowingly created in its need for power.

 

In doing so, the whole balance of the planet has been upset because

the Southern Hemisphere has been forced to follow the traditions of

the Northern Hemisphere. Peoples who migrated from one culture to

another have been coerced through the fear of ostracism into

following a cycle which bears little resemblance to inherent

resonance of their physical bodies to the land beneath their feet.

 

 

Children - the product of many intermingled and interbred races and

creeds - the offspring of the rape of religious conflict - are

coerced into supplication to the will of their biological mother's

loss of her own truth. They, in their innocence, see through the

facade and are saddened - a grief which becomes buried deeper and

deeper into the realms of their unconscious through the passing

seasons of their growing process.

 

 

The Great New God of Commercialism is now called on as Mother's

Salvation to bribe the children further from their essence - so

even the origins of the Church tradition become buried further into

the unconscious.This process creates an even deeper dichotomy

between those who have and those who have not .. and the well of

debt becomes a progressively deeper emotional quagmire.

 

 

The cycles of influence far greater than the limited human

perspective of a Spiritual or "God" Being will eventually move

people through the cycles ..

 

It is your choice whether to allow the flow of Life to move within

and through you -

 

or to be dragged kicking and screaming because you cannot let go of

your limited self sense dependency on some past corruption of a

brief instant in time.

 

 

Will you allow the children to remember and flow with the bigger

picture - or will you endeavour to trap them into the depths of an

ever decreasing spiral of your own self-limiting beliefs.

 

 

What we call Christmas is the corruption of just one celebration in

the flow of just one season of just one cycle of which life on this

earth follows and the life of this earth obeys ..

 

as children,

underneath the glitz, the glamour, the baubles,

the fancy lights and the empty promises ..

 

we knew this .. we saw the lies ..

and in the name of religious conformity

many were denied the wholeness of our being

 

 

--

Christopher Wynter,

lifestreams

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/23/2001 9:29:34 PM Pacific Standard Time,

jodyrrr writes:

 

< As you hold on to any particular man-made time-line, so you deny

> the flow and keep yourself trapped in the smaller cycle of the

> individualised I.

 

Ridiculous. Time, linear or cyclical, has nothing to do with who

we are. It isn't time that binds us, nor how we decide to count

time. We are bound by ignorance and we can be freed from ignorance

without having to give how we count time a second thought.

>>

 

With each new day, I become more and more conscious of the writing of

words.....There is a strong feeling that as long as words are read from the

source that learns from books, words that flow from deep withing will be

misinterpreted...and more than that.. the source of true life, (freedom as

you call it), can never have a chance to arise and than grow.. as it should.

If life can only be seen as a tapestry, flowing and creating its own

design..(but that somewhere along the way...there were those who tried to

interfere with this and because of that...created snags in the design...and

now millions get caught up in these snags...which are no different than a

sticky part of a web)...If this is understood or allowed as a possibility,

then there can be some understanding of how to help remove those snags...But

if words are spoken only to bolster an achieved art of words, or are read

only to increase the size of the vocabulary, then never will the self-made

tapestry return to its most original way of creating designs... When words

are offered from someone who has identified sources of where and why this

"ignorance"...(as you call it), comes from...why must those words be

refuted?...We are all so much more similar then realized...How can the

"ignorance" be removed from lives, if they don't know the source of it?

 

Norma

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/23/2001 10:10:25 PM Pacific Standard Time,

jodyrrr writes:

 

<< When word are offered that appear to refute what I've come to know

to be true, I'm compelled to refute those words. In those I know to

be Self realized, how they counted time had absolutely nothing to do

with their coming to the blessing. Mr. Wynter said that holding on

to the normal ways we count time will prevent our realization from

occurring. I know this isn't true, and therefore offered my thoughts

on it. >>

 

I've just identified the reason as to why I experienced several minutes of

feeling drained...and I want to thank you for very much for the opportunity

to see it...

 

Norma

[Guest guest]

, Christopher Wynter <lifestreams@b...>

wrote:

 

[snip]

> As you hold on to any particular man-made time-line, so you deny

> the flow and keep yourself trapped in the smaller cycle of the

> individualised I.

 

Ridiculous. Time, linear or cyclical, has nothing to do with who

we are. It isn't time that binds us, nor how we decide to count

time. We are bound by ignorance and we can be freed from ignorance

without having to give how we count time a second thought.

 

It's this sort of thinking, that there is a 'better' or more

'natural' way to do things, that provides most of the occluding

ideology known as popular spiritual culture.

 

[snip]

[Guest guest]

, goldy757@a... wrote:

 

[snip]

> When words

> are offered from someone who has identified sources of where and why this

> "ignorance"...(as you call it), comes from...why must those words be

> refuted?...We are all so much more similar then realized...How can the

> "ignorance" be removed from lives, if they don't know the source of it?

>

> Norma

 

When word are offered that appear to refute what I've come to know

to be true, I'm compelled to refute those words. In those I know to

be Self realized, how they counted time had absolutely nothing to do

with their coming to the blessing. Mr. Wynter said that holding on

to the normal ways we count time will prevent our realization from

occurring. I know this isn't true, and therefore offered my thoughts

on it.

[Guest guest]

And my dear Jody, you are not at all wrong in that...

 

As you wrote:

>>> In those I know to be Self realized, how they counted time had

absolutely nothing to do with their coming to the blessing. Mr. Wynter said

that holding on to the normal ways we count time will prevent our

realization from occurring. I know this isn't true, and therefore offered

my thoughts on it. <<<

 

Love, Wim

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[Guest guest]

, "jodyrrr" <jodyrrr@h...> wrote:

> Ridiculous. Time, linear or cyclical, has nothing to do with who

> we are. It isn't time that binds us, nor how we decide to count

> time.

 

Time isn't.

> We are bound by ignorance

 

We are not bound. *This* is "the sort of thinking that provides most

of the occluding ideology known as popular spiritual culture."

 

Cheers,

 

Tim

[Guest guest]

On 12/23/01 at 11:18 PM Wim Borsboom wrote:

 

ºAnd my dear Jody, you are not at all wrong in that...

º

ºAs you wrote:

º>>> In those I know to be Self realized, how they counted time had

ºabsolutely nothing to do with their coming to the blessing. Mr. Wynter

ºsaid

ºthat holding on to the normal ways we count time will prevent our

ºrealization from occurring. I know this isn't true, and therefore offered

ºmy thoughts on it. <<<

º

ºLove, Wim

 

Isn't "right" and "wrong" but a matter of perspective?

Define the color black as white and still a white cat

doesn't show up in the whiteness of the cloudy moonless night.

That is a matter of perception.

Regarding the "verbal thing" i wrote a little poem:

 

verbo city crowns

noise the sound of city's views

rules the darkest grey

even it the music plays

verbo city dumbo dim

 

Peace,

 

Jan

[Guest guest]

My dear Jan,

 

You wrote:

>>> Isn't "right" and "wrong" but a matter of perspective? <<<

 

And is the perspective from which you speak here now, and for that matter,

from which I speak here now, also not an example AND a continuation of that

very thing that we are trying to point at... to solve it... resolve,

dissolve and absolve?

 

And does that not make you laugh and cry at the same time?

 

Is...?

:-)

 

Is this not per chance...?

:-(

 

Is this not maybe... the epitome of that self implicating maddening

thing...?

:-!

 

"Jantje huilt, Jantje lacht"

 

Now as the crying is stopping and the laughing remains...

 

lol lol lol

 

LOL LOL LOL

 

Quickly:

Invoke that fifth amendment now...

While you are still laughing :-!!!)))

 

"nor shall [a person] be compelled ... to be a witness against himself".

 

lololololol

 

---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----

----- After a deep breath -----

---- "Ah, that was good" ----

---------- "omigosh!!!" ----------

---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----

 

Are these observations not coming from the same perspective that keeps the

perspective going?

 

Oh stop now..., keep laughing..., lest we implicate ourselves again.

 

Hooting, what a hoot...!

 

----------

----

 

Now could it be....?

Could it just be.....?

 

Could you... just... for a split second maybe... give me the benefit of the

doubt...?

 

Could it be, (have you though of that?) that what I write and how I write

and that I persist in this, that this is exactly intended to raise and

return our awareness to our authentic and innate immediacy and naiveté (yes)

again?

 

Awareness off what?

 

The last vestiges of that astigmatism in mental clarity, the obfuscation,

the blurriness, the double vision, the difficulty with being here now

un-mediated,

Also the last vestiges of that 'evaluating' sickness, that compulsion to

'assess', the obsession to assess?

 

Assess what?

 

Ah, tax assessors... always taxing your assets... what obsessiveness!

taxing and covering your asse(t)s all the time...

 

Oh, oh,

Keep laughing now, no self implication... keep exonerating... this is the

moment...

 

Invoke the Fifth again... as often as you need.

 

---------------

Dear Jan,

 

We can make as many ditties as we want, we can put words down as much as we

want...but in principle

 

In principio erat verbum

en arche en ho logos

 

The beginning of John's gospel...

(I have heard the original incantation and it sounded very much like, lol,

lol, hallelujah...)

 

I hear the angels sing....

 

\/\/

W X /\/\

/\/\

---

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[Guest guest]

, "fewtch" <coresite@h...> wrote:

> , "jodyrrr" <jodyrrr@h...> wrote:

> > Ridiculous. Time, linear or cyclical, has nothing to do with who

> > we are. It isn't time that binds us, nor how we decide to count

> > time.

>

> Time isn't.

>

> > We are bound by ignorance

>

> We are not bound. *This* is "the sort of thinking that provides most

> of the occluding ideology known as popular spiritual culture."

>

> Cheers,

>

> Tim

 

Those that have yet to come to the direct awareness that they

are Brahman can be said to be bound. If one has yet to come

to this direct awareness, there is a kind of ignorance that

is appearing to prevent it from being known.

 

Unfortunately, merely believing that one is free does not

result in the freedom sought. In fact, believing one is

free before they are is one of the most pernicious forms

of ignorance there is.

[Guest guest]

, "jodyrrr" <jodyrrr@h...> wrote:

> Unfortunately, merely believing that one is free does not

> result in the freedom sought. In fact, believing one is

> free before they are is one of the most pernicious forms

> of ignorance there is.

 

As there is no freedom or bondage, believing that "one" is free

before, during or after (ooga booga) is equally pernicious (errr,

umm.. pernicious, gotta look that one up ;-)

 

Scooby dooby doo,

 

Shakey

[Guest guest]

Message: 1 Mon, 24 Dec 2001 07:34:36 +0200 "viorica

weissman" <viorica (AT) zahav (DOT) net.il>Maharshi - Spiritual

Instruction - 23Q: Is there any authority for saying that there is

neither bondage nor Liberation? A: This is decided on the strength

of experience and not merely on the strength of the scriptures.

Q: If it is experienced how is it experienced? A: 'Bondage' and

'Liberation' are mere linguistic terms. They have no reality of

their own. Therefore they cannot function of their own accord.

It is necessary to accept the existence of some basic thing of

which they are the modifications. If one enquires, 'for whom is

there bondage and Liberation?' it will be seen, 'they are for

me'. If one enquires, 'who am I?', one will see that there is

no such thing as the 'I'. It will then be as clear as an

amalaka fruit in one's hand that what remains is one's real

being. As this truth will be naturally and clearly experienced

by those who leave aside mere verbal discussions and enquire

into themselves inwardly, there is no doubt that all realized

persons uniformly see neither bondage nor Liberation so far as

the true Self is concerned. Sri Ramana Maharshi - Spiritual

Instruction

[Guest guest]

On 12/24/01 at 8:09 AM Wim Borsboom wrote:

 

ºMy dear Jan,

º

ºYou wrote:

º>>> Isn't "right" and "wrong" but a matter of perspective? <<<

º

ºAnd is the perspective from which you speak here now, and for that matter,

ºfrom which I speak here now, also not an example AND a continuation of that

ºvery thing that we are trying to point at... to solve it... resolve,

ºdissolve and absolve?

 

No, i don't point at anything but if that nevertheless is interpreted as a

pointer,

who cares?

º

ºAnd does that not make you laugh and cry at the same time?

 

Laugh yes, cry no, as there is always a perspective

called "the bright side".

---------------

five are on the bus

at the next stop eight get out

filled with three not-plus

-----------------

º

ºIs...?

º:-)

º

ºIs this not per chance...?

º:-(

 

here is food for thought

thinking does not solve a thing

that thought is a joke

º

ºIs this not maybe... the epitome of that self implicating maddening

ºthing...?

º:-!

º

º"Jantje huilt, Jantje lacht"

[...]

Didn't the Buddha teach the way to lasting happiness?

Not a fiction... - no more tears.

 

If there is any "purpose" to samadhis, it is to show that thoughts and feelings

are like the waves of the ocean and the bottom can only be seen

if the waves have died out. Regarding the mind, Ramana had a nice saying,

like "why ransack what has to be discarded?" which is both true and funny.

 

Peace,

Jan