Jump to content
IndiaDivine.org

[NDS] Human Nature and Self-realization/JB

Rate this topic


Guest guest

Recommended Posts

Sorry, JB...I can't take your humor seriously.

 

It just seems to lack real sincerity. ;)

 

Methinks it's time for you to return to the cave.

 

Ed...abiding the inner smile. <s>

 

, "jb" <kvy9@l...> wrote:

> On 12/23/01 at 9:49 AM Ed wrote:

> Can one be a Realized Being without fully understanding human

nature?

>

> <Humor on>

> I asked both the dog and the cat: they remained silent.

> That sparkled some great insight in the nature of realization

> <Humor off>

>

> Is human nature more clearly understood as an aspect of "something"

beyond yet inclusive

> of it, such as the "nature of existence"?

>

> <Humor on>

> I asked the cat and she transmitted the following:

> There is no such thing as "human" nature - creatures

> behave according to their programming which is but a set

> of "eat, multiply and die".

> <Humor off>

>

> Can human nature or the human aspect of existence be clearly

understood without understanding

> how the physiological, psychological, social, economic, political,

geographic, historical, and

> metaphysical factors affect each other? (Must have missed

something here.) :)

>

> Yes, missed the unrecorded history of mankind :)

>

> Given the conditioning and the pressures of survival that fix our

attention to specific areas of daily

> living: how can we possibly have a full understanding of human

nature?

>

> <Humor on>

> The dog said: "don't ask humans - they are biased.

> Ask my alien friends from the Dog Star"

> <Humor off>

>

> PLEASE...serious answers are sorely needed. <s>

>

> Yes, more answers to generate more questions...

> Cats, dogs and mice love to play :)

>

> Cartoons forever,

> Jan

>

> neEDy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/25/01 at 2:57 PM stillpointed wrote:

 

ºSorry, JB...I can't take your humor seriously.

 

Great - seriousness is a lethal, contagious disease...

When infected, don't worry, the thread continues :)

º

ºIt just seems to lack real sincerity. ;)

 

Isn't that a matter of observing?

Mirror, mirror on the wall - who is the sincerest of all:

The liar with the sweetest words or the bard with harshest verse?

º

ºMethinks it's time for you to return to the cave.

 

Thanks for the laugh:

The cave never has been left - it just expanded a bit.

Fortunately, it doesn't have an address and isn't visible.

Yet room for one only hence no visitors allowed :)

 

"Nature is fractal in nature"

Jan

º

ºEd...abiding the inner smile. <s>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dear Ed,

 

As long as one is convinced that one has a special and personal reason to

hold on to one's difficulties, one will not recover one's innate freedom.

 

Human nature, just like any other natural manifestation is by nature divine.

What we usually call 'human nature is really de-natured human.

 

 

---

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Version: 6.0.306 / Virus Database: 166 - Release 12/4/2001

Link to comment
Share on other sites

, "Wim Borsboom" <wim@a...> wrote:

> What we usually call 'human nature is really de-natured human.

 

Or "non-human nature" -- if you think about it, it's the same thing,

except that the phrase may be objectionable to those who cling to the

label "human" and feel that "humans" are superior somehow.

 

Cheers,

 

Tim

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/26/01 at 12:16 AM fewtch wrote:

 

º, "Wim Borsboom" <wim@a...> wrote:

º> What we usually call 'human nature is really de-natured human.

º

ºOr "non-human nature" -- if you think about it, it's the same thing,

ºexcept that the phrase may be objectionable to those who cling to the

ºlabel "human" and feel that "humans" are superior somehow.

º

ºCheers,

º

ºTim

 

There are some, considering the possibility that humans aren't superior,

but "upgraded Neanderthals" (too funny for words):

 

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/genesis/index.htm

 

and regarding the human origin, the last word probably hasn't been said..

 

Prosit,

Jan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Jan,

 

That's an interesting link... i used to speculate the "christian god"

was satan, and the so-called satan was "god" (this was when such

concerns still meant something :-).

 

Regarding human origin, it's interesting this is an "issue" for

many... who cares? When trying to make sense of life, everything is

an issue -- when not, it doesn't matter.

 

Cheers,

 

Tim

 

, "jb" <kvy9@l...> wrote:

> There are some, considering the possibility that humans aren't

> superior, but "upgraded Neanderthals" (too funny for words):

>

> http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/genesis/index.htm

>

> and regarding the human origin, the last word probably hasn't been

> said..

>

> Prosit,

> Jan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/26/01 at 1:31 AM fewtch wrote:

 

ºHi Jan,

º

ºThat's an interesting link... i used to speculate the "christian god"

ºwas satan, and the so-called satan was "god" (this was when such

ºconcerns still meant something :-).

 

As usual - "Lucifer" means something like

"bringer of light" - light with a capital l of course.

º

ºRegarding human origin, it's interesting this is an "issue" for

ºmany... who cares? When trying to make sense of life, everything is

ºan issue -- when not, it doesn't matter.

º

ºCheers,

º

ºTim

 

For those, milling the mind for a "solution" to improve

the situation regarding violence, exploitation, environment etc.,

it could serve as an answer. Often, seemingly complex questions

can have a surprisingly simple answer. It is fairly easy to spot

the "nondual component" in ancient myths and legends - yet the

previous age was the most violent one in recorded history.

 

 

Prosit,

Jan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

, "jb" <kvy9@l...> wrote:

> On 12/26/01 at 1:31 AM fewtch wrote:

>

> ºHi Jan,

> º

> ºThat's an interesting link... i used to speculate the "christian

> god"

> ºwas satan, and the so-called satan was "god" (this was when such

> ºconcerns still meant something :-).

>

> As usual - "Lucifer" means something like

> "bringer of light" - light with a capital l of course.

 

Interesting too that the "dualistic religions" (Christianity, Islam,

Judaism) present the idea of a "heaven" which resembles the Garden of

Eden -- "All desires satisfied," but at the price of slavery under a

God... the desire for "eternal bliss" and all pleasures provided

prompting such actions as happened 9/11/2001 (many others, too).

 

Most religions also referring to "sin" -- none other than issues of

shame and guilt buried under layers of conditioning, with "God" the

parental figure -- although maturity of the body may be happening at

a younger age, the mind never changes after adolescence (other than

added conditioning). Psychiatrists also agree, most adults are at

the "emotional age" of around 12.

> For those, milling the mind for a "solution" to improve

> the situation regarding violence, exploitation, environment etc.,

> it could serve as an answer. Often, seemingly complex questions

> can have a surprisingly simple answer. It is fairly easy to spot

> the "nondual component" in ancient myths and legends - yet the

> previous age was the most violent one in recorded history.

>

>

> Prosit,

> Jan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/26/01 at 2:06 AM fewtch wrote:

 

º, "jb" <kvy9@l...> wrote:

º> On 12/26/01 at 1:31 AM fewtch wrote:

º>

º> ºHi Jan,

º> º

º> ºThat's an interesting link... i used to speculate the "christian

º> god"

º> ºwas satan, and the so-called satan was "god" (this was when such

º> ºconcerns still meant something :-).

º>

º> As usual - "Lucifer" means something like

º> "bringer of light" - light with a capital l of course.

º

ºInteresting too that the "dualistic religions" (Christianity, Islam,

ºJudaism) present the idea of a "heaven" which resembles the Garden of

ºEden -- "All desires satisfied," but at the price of slavery under a

ºGod... the desire for "eternal bliss" and all pleasures provided

ºprompting such actions as happened 9/11/2001 (many others, too).

 

In a certain sense, ancient Rome could be called such a 'paradise' - no

matter how strange that may sound. A few years ago a study based on

archeological founds was published, showing that the slaves had a more

pleasant life than many a 21st century laborer. Of course, at the cost of

total obedience - but with 3...5 days of work/week, free housing, entertainment,

then, not a problem.. Not to forget the good organically grown food of those

days :)

º

ºMost religions also referring to "sin" -- none other than issues of

ºshame and guilt buried under layers of conditioning, with "God" the

ºparental figure -- although maturity of the body may be happening at

ºa younger age, the mind never changes after adolescence (other than

ºadded conditioning). Psychiatrists also agree, most adults are at

ºthe "emotional age" of around 12.

 

Animals don't feel shame - living up to the feelings of the moment.

It might have taken a while for "starting" humanity to develop the

potential to feel shame. Guilt can be seen in for instance dogs too..

That as a rule, mind doesn't change after adolescence sure does ring a bell...

It means, development comes to halt although as a result of processing of

experience, change should be continuous...

When "awake" such a change is impossible to prevent... And it happens,

while aware of it.

 

In Dutch Rosicrucian books, often the apparent gap, dividing mankind,

is discussed as it can divide families too: the ability to understand there

is "something" beyond the mind, that thought cannot grasp, and feeling

attracted to "it".

º

º> For those, milling the mind for a "solution" to improve

º> the situation regarding violence, exploitation, environment etc.,

º> it could serve as an answer. Often, seemingly complex questions

º> can have a surprisingly simple answer. It is fairly easy to spot

º> the "nondual component" in ancient myths and legends - yet the

º> previous age was the most violent one in recorded history.

º>

º>

º> Prosit,

º> Jan

º

Link to comment
Share on other sites

, "jb" <kvy9@l...> wrote:

> Animals don't feel shame - living up to the feelings of the moment.

> It might have taken a while for "starting" humanity to develop the

> potential to feel shame. Guilt can be seen in for instance dogs

> too..

 

No surprise then, dogs regarded as "man's best friend" <laugh>. Dogs

have been bred over centuries to serve such a role -- 'selective

breeding' none other than a sort of conditioning.

> That as a rule, mind doesn't change after adolescence sure does

> ring a bell... It means, development comes to halt although as a

> result of processing of experience, change should be continuous...

> When "awake" such a change is impossible to prevent... And it

> happens, while aware of it.

 

It also shows that the mind-body are not separate -- adolescence as

an "event" can't be pinpointed merely to changes in the body.

> In Dutch Rosicrucian books, often the apparent gap, dividing

> mankind, is discussed as it can divide families too: the ability to

> understand there is "something" beyond the mind, that thought

> cannot grasp, and feeling attracted to "it".

 

No surprise -- and that it could appear divisive (but only for those

not understanding, of course). Where else could the ideas

of "enlightenment" and "ignorance" have appeared (yet another "two

sides of the same coin").

 

Tim

Link to comment
Share on other sites

, "Wim Borsboom" <wim@a...> wrote:

> Dear Ed,

>

> As long as one is convinced that one has a special and personal

reason to

> hold on to one's difficulties, one will not recover one's innate

freedom.

>

> Human nature, just like any other natural manifestation is by

nature divine.

> What we usually call 'human nature is really de-natured human.

 

Yes, it's all in how it is seen. Very often someone else's

"difficulty" is just a projection of our very own.

 

Ed...abiding with you in the unseen <s>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...