Answer to Wim / Siddhis and surrender

[Guest guest]

Dear Wim,

now I want to go a little bit deeper into the siddhi-topic.

You write:

 

Siddhas are 'enlightened' beings with additional actualising or

creativesiddhis (gifts or powers, sometimes seen as wondrous or

miraculous). Thesegifts make them 'realized' and 'realizing' beings.

The need to display thosegifts depends on their playful and joyous

functionality and functionalplayfulness to bring joy.

 

You say, that these gifts make them "realized". (You differ between

devotees, enlightened ones and realized ones.) Clearly said, a

realized being must have such gifts. These gifts make the enlightened

being to a realized being. Have I grasp it correct now?

If siddhis in this context are meant as the expression of the power of

the realized being in whatever form it may happen (wandrous or not) -

I agree. To calm the mind of people through mere presence - as in the

case of Ramana - this we can also call a siddhi - in your

understandig. Is that correct? And this "siddhi" is one of the most

rare and to the most benefit for others.

Ok. so far I can follow. I can also follow, if you say, that the need

to display those gifts may be different (if there is a need at all).

Seshadri was playful (or it seems he was. There is also the opinion,

that he wanted to hide his true realization with his strange

behaviour. We never will know...)- Ramana was not playful. Ramana

felt no need to display this gifts. He had no intentions. It only

happened very naturally. The power of his being revealed itself. That

was all.

 

In an answer to Gloria you write:

 

It is all love and surrender...It does not matter who one surrenders

too, sooner or later one will doubtthat being as well... That happened

to people around Ramana as well...Gloria, one may as well surrender to

me..., it does not matter, in the longrun one will surrender to the

real self...I should actually say, "One renders the self."

 

Well, Wim, hope you have nothing against if I/we keep on to give our

surrender to Sri Ramana and not to you. (LOL)

Ah yes, that is what I meant in my critizism: how you are speking

about yourself. That causes confrontations.

But nevertheless, there is a lot of truth in what you say: it is all love and surrender.

As always I have here a Ramana-story:

 

"Two visitors came to Bhagavan and one of them said:

'My friend has taken as his guru a man who is not even a sadhu. I

brought him here so that he would give up this guru and follow you,

Bhagavan. Please make him do so.'

Bhagavan replied sternly:

'Who are you to say who is the right guru for him? By what power can

you make out what a man really is? And are you sure that the guru

counts so much? All depends on the disciple. Even if you worship a

stone with great devotion it will be seen as God." (Ganesan: Moments

Remembered, p. 20)

 

 

Love (and I bow to your true self)

Gabriele

[Guest guest]

Thank you again, my dear Gabriele, for your response.

 

And again, I concur with much of how you understand ...

Your way of reading is very generous to the way I write and express myself,

therefore you glean my intent very well. Thank you.

 

I am indeed often a 'naughty one' like your Seshadri, or the way Krishna was

so often. There can be great benefit in being the 'hofnar' (Dutch) or

'clown', or... what's the word? Ah...the 'fool' !

>>> You say, that these gifts make them "realized". <<<

 

Let me say a little more are about the meaning of 'gift'. Gifts originally

meant 'givens... data, as in "It is a given that...", or "Given that this is

such... then ..."

The Latin word for giving is 'do' (dedi, datum, dare). 'Do' also points to

the giver 'Da' (Deus, benefactor of deeds) as illustrated by the originating

words from Sanskrit 'da' or 'dha'. (There is much beautiful material on

this.)

 

I was at some point a guru (Oh yes in 1975 :-) with 'Da' (as in 'adi da' or

'da free john') in front of my usual appellation... hehehe.

I was jokingly (?) called "da Wim"

(duh :-)

 

A very beautiful Latin first name is Deodata or Deodatus, to indicate that a

child is a gift of God, and that 'it goes without saying', we just have to

recognize it and express gratitude. Deus (God), Zeus, or Jupiter or 'Dio

Pater'... means 'God is the father' of 'this child' or in a larger view

'humankind'. That is why I put so much emphasis on the fact that we are

reclaiming our divinity... No need to attain it...

It is of course an absolute given that Ma is the mother...

 

One could say that at the moment of ecstasy in intercourse the lover is the

representative of divine gifts and graces... Cupi-do (I give pleasure to

desire, I satisfy desire)

>>> Clearly said, a realized being must have such gifts. <<<

 

It is a 'given' that realized beings have them...

How he or she disperses them, is fully and freely dependant on how they see

fit to urge fellow human beings to 'expeditiously' remember, recover and

reclaim their divinity...

 

The gifts can be seen as signs or marks of realization, but real masters or

mistresses at this, will quickly obliterate those signs, they 'kick the

pedestal' to also prevent dependency by devotees.

>>> To calm the mind of people through mere presence - as in the case of

Ramana - this we can also call a siddhi - in your understanding. Is that

correct? <<<

 

Yes

>>> And this "siddhi" is one of the most rare and to the most benefit for

others. <<<

 

It still depends quite a bit on 'humorous and freeing' expediency and

preparatory work...

But yes... when WE succeed (the giver-gift-and-given, the

lover-love-and-beloved) after some expedient trickery, WE fully merge in the

calmness of one, communion, the glorious dynamic-state of love.

>>> Seshadri was playful (or it seems he was. There is also the opinion,

that he wanted to hide his true realization with his strange behaviour. We

never will know...)- Ramana was not playful. Ramana felt no need to display

this gifts. <<<

 

He allowed Seshadri... one has to prime the pump... choke the motor...

 

One should see that the 'single and enigmatic Ramana' is fully surrounded by

a culture that provides a lot of preparation... A devotee just does not come

out of the blue to see the master..

Here in the West that is so different... I do a lot of the prep myself...

and then... "the harmonious calm" strikes... (hmmm). With some it goes very

fast..., with some not so, it all depends very much on the layers of hurt

that has to be cut through...

>>> He did not He had no intentions. It only happened very naturally. The

power of his being revealed itself. That was all.<<<

 

Of course, but, as I said, do not overlook the surrounding culture...

 

I wrote:

>>> one may as well surrender to me..., it does not matter, in the long run

one will surrender to the real self...<<<

 

You answered:

>>>Well, Wim, hope you have nothing against if I/we keep on to give our

surrender to Sri Ramana and not to you. (LOL)<<<

 

Of course not, hehehe.

But you know I am here... you can touch me... :-)... we can hug...

Ramana? Not...

By the way, the 24th of February is my birthday.

Punarvasu - Bhagavan's Birth Star celebration in 2002 is on Feb 24.

>>> Ah yes, that is what I meant in my criticism: how you are speaking

about yourself. That causes confrontations.<<<

 

There is a method to my madness... as you are starting to see... :-)))

>>>Bhagavan replied sternly: 'Who are you to say who is the right guru for

him? By what power can you make out what a man really is? And are you sure

that the guru counts so much? All depends on the disciple. Even if you

worship a stone with great devotion it will be seen as God." (Ganesan:

Moments Remembered, p. 20) <<<

 

As I wrote to Hellman:

>>> Most people don't even know themselves, how can they possibly tell a

talker and charismatic from a realised? <<<

 

So surrender to a goat, a cow, nandi, me, a lingam or a pissing post... it

makes no difference... as it is self rendering self... eventually 'one falls

in love' again

 

Thank you my dear Gabriele, Wim

 

PS

A bit about your name, there is more, but later...

 

"Gabr"

In Amsterdam Jewish slang a 'gabber' is a 'man'.

Gab is 'strong man'. Gab means strength. Gabriel is "strength of God".

Gabr-El or God-Man, the divine human.

(It is not for nothing that Gabriel was involved with Mary who gave birth to

Jesus (Deodatus, Joshua), Immanuel, 'God is with us' or God / Man)

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Does she? Really? Better you don't believe...

LOL

Gabriele

 

, "vioricail" <viorica@z...> wrote:

>

> a P.S. to Gever-I-El = Gabriel

>

> as far as i can see Gabriele fulfills her name