Guest guest Posted January 4, 2002 Report Share Posted January 4, 2002 When the shadows of ownership arise in the act of sharing the gift of life, all illuminations of giving and receiving, fade quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2002 Report Share Posted January 4, 2002 The following is quintessential... When there is any form of doubt, either inward or outward, or a variation on the theme of doubt (e.g. scepticism, questioning, mistrust) in a person (e.g. you), that person has not really dealt with the subjective self inquiry "Who am I?" as proposed by Ramana. I understand what you are saying. May I put it in laymans terms? If you think of feng shui for your home property, for the best feng shui, we must show our property lines -- where our property ends, and the neighbors start -- including both front and back yards. It can be done with a fence, rocks/stones, plants, trees, etc. At that point, there is no question of who's who. With feng shui for the self, we do the same thing. As we discover who we are -- make our boundary lines, so to speak, we have no doubts of who we are. Just like planting trees, rocks, etc. around your property line, this could take some time. :-) That person (e.g. you) may have considered the inquiry, may even be in the process of considering it, but has not really addressed it, as that person (e.g. you) is still directed outside him or herself and still dealing with "who the other is." Such a person (e.g. you) has invariably been deeply traumatized by a person other than him or herself, who doubted or questioned the value of or even the justification for his or her being (e.g. your being). I don't know about traumatized in all cases. Just haven't figured out our boundaries (who we are) -- what brings us to our peaceful quiet center. Jody, it is time to really start dealing with Ramana's question... Sweet Heart Wim... there must be a better way that doesn't sound so accusatory. You two are talking the same thing, but talking different languages. To wonder about the authenticity of someone else's believability, someone other than the original questioner of your being, (usually father, mother or both) is only a protracting activity that keeps you away from dealing with your most essential question... This is gobbledygook. I'm not speaking your language here as I'm having to read it over and over to reinterpret into my layman's terms. English please! Although it looks like (and your are habitually positioning yourself that way) that you are justifiably questioning the truth and authenticity of someone other than yourself in the world at large, you are really only doubting yourself. I doubt that. :-) Jody knows who he is. When you figure yourself out -- make your own boundaries - find your center of who you are, and not living with your head in the clouds, not only will you know Jody knows, but you will know you know. You know? LOL But... but... but... the good thing is, that you don't have to blame yourself for that dubious stance, as that doubt was projected onto you and instilled into you under duress by a person or persons who were either manipulating you for their own use or abuse, or who had a need to reject you as they *might have thought* that you were manipulating them for your own use or abuse. Nahhhh. It's like you said... We don't know who we are. So, there you go, Jody... I could not have said it more succinctly... Hmmm? Actually I could have... Did you ever take the question "Who am I?' seriously? Yeesh, Wim, we gotta teach you some manners here! This way of communicating only brings jousting wars. Love, xxxtg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2002 Report Share Posted January 4, 2002 Dear Jody, The following is quintessential... When there is any form of doubt, either inward or outward, or a variation on the theme of doubt (e.g. scepticism, questioning, mistrust) in a person (e.g. you), that person has not really dealt with the subjective self inquiry "Who am I?" as proposed by Ramana. That person (e.g. you) may have considered the inquiry, may even be in the process of considering it, but has not really addressed it, as that person (e.g. you) is still directed outside him or herself and still dealing with "who the other is." Such a person (e.g. you) has invariably been deeply traumatized by a person other than him or herself, who doubted or questioned the value of or even the justification for his or her being (e.g. your being). Jody, it is time to really start dealing with Ramana's question... To wonder about the authenticity of someone else's believability, someone other than the original questioner of your being, (usually father, mother or both) is only a protracting activity that keeps you away from dealing with your most essential question... Although it looks like (and your are habitually positioning yourself that way) that you are justifiably questioning the truth and authenticity of someone other than yourself in the world at large, you are really only doubting yourself. But... but... but... the good thing is, that you don't have to blame yourself for that dubious stance, as that doubt was projected onto you and instilled into you under duress by a person or persons who were either manipulating you for their own use or abuse, or who had a need to reject you as they *might have thought* that you were manipulating them for your own use or abuse. So, there you go, Jody... I could not have said it more succinctly... Hmmm? Actually I could have... Did you ever take the question "Who am I?' seriously? In love, Jody, and with compassionate patience and deep understanding, Wim. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.306 / Virus Database: 166 - Release 12/4/2001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2002 Report Share Posted January 4, 2002 Dear Wim, *Any* form of doubt? Isn't that's a bit strong? Imagine for example one of our NDS readers. He has done self inquiry as you say. He experiences no doubt or uncertainty at all as to who he is, who others are, what the world is. that "he", "others," and the entire world is anything at all is just radiant consciousness. This is how he experiences, all the time. So one day he goes to the grocery store. He picks up a couple pounds of tomatoes ($1.79 per pound), takes them to the cash register. They get weighed, and the total price comes up as 45 cents. He says, "Hmm, I doubt if that's the right price." Love, --Greg At 07:21 AM 1/4/02 -0800, Wim Borsboom wrote: >Dear Jody, > >The following is quintessential... > >When there is any form of doubt, either inward or outward, or a variation on >the theme of doubt (e.g. scepticism, questioning, mistrust) in a person >(e.g. you), that person has not really dealt with the subjective self >inquiry "Who am I?" as proposed by Ramana. >That person (e.g. you) may have considered the inquiry, may even be in the >process of considering it, but has not really addressed it, as that person >(e.g. you) is still directed outside him or herself and still dealing with >"who the other is." Such a person (e.g. you) has invariably been deeply >traumatized by a person other than him or herself, who doubted or questioned >the value of or even the justification for his or her being (e.g. your >being). > >Jody, it is time to really start dealing with Ramana's question... > >To wonder about the authenticity of someone else's believability, someone >other than the original questioner of your being, (usually father, mother or >both) is only a protracting activity that keeps you away from dealing with >your most essential question... > >Although it looks like (and your are habitually positioning yourself that >way) that you are justifiably questioning the truth and authenticity of >someone other than yourself in the world at large, you are really only >doubting yourself. But... but... but... the good thing is, that you don't >have to blame yourself for that dubious stance, as that doubt was projected >onto you and instilled into you under duress by a person or persons who were >either manipulating you for their own use or abuse, or who had a need to >reject you as they *might have thought* that you were manipulating them for >your own use or abuse. > >So, there you go, Jody... > >I could not have said it more succinctly... >Hmmm? Actually I could have... Did you ever take the question "Who am I?' >seriously? > >In love, Jody, and with compassionate patience and deep understanding, >Wim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2002 Report Share Posted January 4, 2002 , Wim Borsboom <wim@a...> wrote: > Dear Jody, > > The following is quintessential... > > When there is any form of doubt, either inward or outward, or a variation on > the theme of doubt (e.g. scepticism, questioning, mistrust) in a person > (e.g. you), that person has not really dealt with the subjective self > inquiry "Who am I?" as proposed by Ramana. So, if someone approaches me on the street and asks for money, promising to return it threefold, my doubting this is an indication of my incomplete self-inquiry? Very convenient thinking for those who claim to have siddhis, aura machines, and conversations with dead sages. > That person (e.g. you) may have considered the inquiry, may even be in the > process of considering it, but has not really addressed it, as that person > (e.g. you) is still directed outside him or herself and still dealing with > "who the other is." Such a person (e.g. you) has invariably been deeply > traumatized by a person other than him or herself, who doubted or questioned > the value of or even the justification for his or her being (e.g. your > being). Now *that* is the quintessence of psychobabble. > Jody, it is time to really start dealing with Ramana's question... > > To wonder about the authenticity of someone else's believability, someone > other than the original questioner of your being, (usually father, mother or > both) is only a protracting activity that keeps you away from dealing with > your most essential question... I don't question those who aren't making extraordinary claims. Ramana never said to chuck reason in the face of unbelieveable statements, as you are proposing I do, but I suppose it gets you off the hook. > Although it looks like (and your are habitually positioning yourself that > way) that you are justifiably questioning the truth and authenticity of > someone other than yourself in the world at large, you are really only > doubting yourself. But... but... but... the good thing is, that you don't > have to blame yourself for that dubious stance, as that doubt was projected > onto you and instilled into you under duress by a person or persons who were > either manipulating you for their own use or abuse, or who had a need to > reject you as they *might have thought* that you were manipulating them for > your own use or abuse. > > So, there you go, Jody... Essential psychobabble by Wim by way of an attack on Jody's motivation so as to deflect the light of reason brought to bear on Wim's fantastic claims of siddhis, aura machines, and conversations with dead sages. > I could not have said it more succinctly... > Hmmm? Actually I could have... Did you ever take the question "Who am I?' > seriously? > > In love, Jody, and with compassionate patience and deep understanding, > Wim. And a motive to get the heat taken off of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2002 Report Share Posted January 4, 2002 Dear Greg, You wrote: >>>*Any* form of doubt? Isn't that's a bit strong? Imagine for example one of our NDS readers. He has done self inquiry as you say. He experiences no doubt or uncertainty at all as to who he is, who others are, what the world is. that "he", "others," and the entire world is anything at all is just radiant consciousness. This is how he experiences, all the time. So one day he goes to the grocery store. He picks up a couple pounds of tomatoes ($1.79 per pound), takes them to the cash register. They get weighed, and the total price comes up as 45 cents. He says, "Hmm, I doubt if that's the right price." >>> Well Greg, we can babble on (Babylon) or stick with the quintessential... But hey, just for fun, Greg... Such an accomplished NDSer as you describe :-) will not likely use the word 'doubt'. He or she will say that price is not right and with the help of the cashier they will get it figured out. Radiating all the time... Otherwise, Greg, just protraction. We can spend ages on all this, and it could be quite fun... In fact, mankind (unkind men mostly :-) has spend ages on all this and is still discussing euros, dollars, pennies and rupees, etc...and anything related as far as energy exchange goes.... Love, Greg and jestfully yours... (radiating tomatoes and all...) --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.306 / Virus Database: 166 - Release 12/4/2001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2002 Report Share Posted January 4, 2002 My dear Jody, >>>Very convenient thinking for those who claim to have siddhis, aura machines, and conversations with dead sages.<<< Those? Who are those...? I don't claim to have siddhis, I have them... I don't have aura machines, I have just one... I don't have conversations with dead sages, I am one... No, actually... I am quite here... Last time I pinched myself... (((((((((((:-))))))))))) Do you actually read well enough, Jody? It might be all 'innuendo' that you read into things...? >>> but I suppose it gets you off the hook.<<< I'm not on any hook... >>> And a motive to get the heat taken off of you.<<< I'm not in any heat, Jody Protraction Jody, get with it... Lovingly, Jody, Wim... --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.306 / Virus Database: 166 - Release 12/4/2001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2002 Report Share Posted January 4, 2002 , Wim Borsboom <wim@a...> wrote: > My dear Jody, > > >>>Very convenient thinking for those who claim to have siddhis, aura > machines, and conversations with dead sages.<<< > > Those? Who are those...? > > I don't claim to have siddhis, I have them... > I don't have aura machines, I have just one... > I don't have conversations with dead sages, I am one... > No, actually... I am quite here... Last time I pinched myself... > (((((((((((:-))))))))))) > > Do you actually read well enough, Jody? It might be all 'innuendo' that you > read into things...? > > >>> but I suppose it gets you off the hook.<<< > > I'm not on any hook... > > >>> And a motive to get the heat taken off of you.<<< > > I'm not in any heat, Jody > > Protraction Jody, get with it... > > Lovingly, Jody, Wim... And thus Wim preserves his lavish self image as a being in possession of special powers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2002 Report Share Posted January 4, 2002 Ah, Jody... >>> And thus Wim preserves his lavish self image as a being in possession of special powers. <<< So serious, Jody. See if you are in possession of that special power of... a sense of humour. I have that one in addition to the other powers of being humanly divine. Laughingly... Wim (You are a hoot, Jody) --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.306 / Virus Database: 166 - Release 12/4/2001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2002 Report Share Posted January 4, 2002 , "Lynette" <Lynette@k...> wrote: > > > > > And thus Wim preserves his lavish self image as a being > > in possession of special powers. > > > And Jody, you assume, that you do not? Or that the norm does not... It is > thinking like that, that will keep you from experiencing such. > > Love and Hugs, > Lynette I have no desire for power of any sort. But as an individual I do have goals. One of them is to prevent other individuals from coming under the spell of powers and the expectation of them. It is the expectation that Self realization brings powers that can prevent the blessing's manifestation in a life. Wim's somewhat reckless disclosure of his supposed powers could cause another to come to expect their own powers. Those I have been blessed to recognize as realized don't have these powers for the most part. Therefore, I will continue to question Wim's undemonstrated claims of siddhis in the hopes of preventing these expectations from become manifest. Ramakrisha had a vision of a beautiful courtesan who slowly become covered in a filthy slime. He said the slime was siddhis, and that they were as desirable as the filth they were represented by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2002 Report Share Posted January 4, 2002 , Wim Borsboom <wim@a...> wrote: > Ah, Jody... > > >>> And thus Wim preserves his lavish self image as a being in possession of > special powers. <<< > > So serious, Jody. See if you are in possession of that special power of... a > sense of humour. > I have that one in addition to the other powers of being humanly divine. > > Laughingly... Wim > (You are a hoot, Jody) Yet another deflection Wim. I'm not trying to be funny at the moment, but I'm glad you're laughing anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2002 Report Share Posted January 4, 2002 Dear Jody, You are welcome to what you do, I have no need to prevent you from any such endeavour. Mind you, why is it, and what is it exactly, that you always respond to with the words 'psycho babble'? Deflections? Protractions... In Dutch we call these things 'schermutselingen'... skirmishes. I leads nowhere... so let's get with it... You have made your point a few times already, successfully or not, it does not matter to me. People can do with it as they see fit... Now, let's get with it... Who am I? Lovingly, Wim (and still smiling) --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.306 / Virus Database: 166 - Release 12/4/2001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2002 Report Share Posted January 4, 2002 On Fri, 04 Jan 2002 18:53:15 -0000 "jodyrrr" <jodyrrr writes: > , Wim Borsboom <wim@a...> wrote: > > Ah, Jody... > > > > >>> And thus Wim preserves his lavish self image as a being in > possession of > > special powers. <<< > > > > So serious, Jody. See if you are in possession of that special > power of... a > > sense of humour. > > I have that one in addition to the other powers of being humanly > divine. > > > > Laughingly... Wim > > (You are a hoot, Jody) > > Yet another deflection Wim. I'm not trying to be funny at the > moment, but I'm glad you're laughing anyway. > There does seem to be a certain nervous, almost frantic edge to Wim's "lighten up" advice -- sort of like "Don't be afraid of my super-powers, I can still laugh like an ordinary human, see?" I'm sure he can come up with some psychobabblish explanation of how and why my observation is "projection" or otherwise indicative of a less- than-sagacious perceptual state, but there it is. Wim, I find myself in agreement with Jody regarding what he notes as your "lavish self-image," for whatever such an agreement is worth -- take it, leave it, or explain it away as you please. Much love -- Bruce http://come.to/realization http://www.atman.net/realization http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm ______________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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