Guest guest Posted January 5, 2002 Report Share Posted January 5, 2002 I looked up three.... I challenge a few of you to look up a few more. Lets find out what the hoolaa is about these things called siddhis? Main Entry: clair·voy·ance Pronunciation: klar-'voi-&n(t)s, kler- Function: noun 1840 1 : the power or faculty of discerning objects not present to the senses 2 : ability to perceive matters beyond the range of ordinary perception : Main Entry: clair·au·di·ence Pronunciation: klar-'o-dE-&n(t)s, kler-, -'ä- Function: noun Etymology: clair- (as in clairvoyance) + audience (act of hearing) 1864 : the power or faculty of hearing something not present to the ear but regarded as having objective reality Main Entry: div·i·na·tion Pronunciation: "di-v&-'nA-sh&n Function: noun Etymology: Middle English divinacioun, from Latin divination-, divinatio, from divinare 14th century 1 : the art or practice that seeks to foresee or foretell future events or discover hidden knowledge usually by the interpretation of omens or by the aid of supernatural powers 2 : unusual insight : intuitive perception Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2002 Report Share Posted January 5, 2002 , "Lynette" <Lynette@k...> wrote: > I looked up three.... I challenge a few of you to look up a few more. Let= s > find out what the hoolaa is about these things called siddhis? The hoohaa is not as to whether such things exist. The point I'm making is that the current seers and departed sages of jnana are of one voice on siddhis. What that voice is saying is that siddhis are of no use to the jnani. At best they are mere parlor tricks, and at worst the most occluding sort of identification with the individual sense of self known to humanity. If I am a being of special powers, I am not the Self, which has no power and is beyond any such powers. So, it is of no use to claim to have siddhis in the context of a discussion of jnana yoga, and to do so without verifiable evidence can only be an indication of an attachment to identity as an individual (i.e. the one who has siddhis) exclusive of an understanding of ourselves as the Self. To belabor the existence of such siddhis without the evidence is to hammer this point home again and again. > Main Entry: clair·voy·ance > Pronunciation: klar-'voi-&n(t)s, kler- > Function: noun > 1840 > 1 : the power or faculty of discerning objects not present to the senses > 2 : ability to perceive matters beyond the range of ordinary perception := > > > > Main Entry: clair·au·di·ence > Pronunciation: klar-'o-dE-&n(t)s, kler-, -'ä- > Function: noun > Etymology: clair- (as in clairvoyance) + audience (act of hearing) > 1864 > : the power or faculty of hearing something not present to the ear but > regarded as having objective reality > > > Main Entry: div·i·na·tion > Pronunciation: "di-v&-'nA-sh&n > Function: noun > Etymology: Middle English divinacioun, from Latin divination-, divinatio,= > from divinare > 14th century > 1 : the art or practice that seeks to foresee or foretell future events o= r > discover hidden knowledge usually by the interpretation of omens or by th= e > aid of supernatural powers > 2 : unusual insight : intuitive perception Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2002 Report Share Posted January 5, 2002 My Dear Jody, you are entitled to your opinion and your perception and your concept.. Of course, without a doubt.... But dont you think the same consideration is due to those that think otherwise? Right or wrong? Is there such a thing? I see nothing extraordinary about siddhis or other gifts... Nothing extraordinary at all.... That is what I'm trying to point out.. Your point has very little to do with mine...... It is neither on the same train of thought, nor is it in direct conflict with mine..... Your point, is yours to make.. And it is heard. Do you insist I'm arguing by arguing back? I'm merely showing there is nothing special to these things called siddhis. Good night, Rest easy everyone. Love, Lynette - jodyrrr <jodyrrr <> Saturday, January 05, 2002 4:21 PM Re: definitions of some well-known "gifts" , "Lynette" <Lynette@k...> wrote: > I looked up three.... I challenge a few of you to look up a few more. Let= s > find out what the hoolaa is about these things called siddhis? The hoohaa is not as to whether such things exist. The point I'm making is that the current seers and departed sages of jnana are of one voice on siddhis. What that voice is saying is that siddhis are of no use to the jnani. At best they are mere parlor tricks, and at worst the most occluding sort of identification with the individual sense of self known to humanity. If I am a being of special powers, I am not the Self, which has no power and is beyond any such powers. So, it is of no use to claim to have siddhis in the context of a discussion of jnana yoga, and to do so without verifiable evidence can only be an indication of an attachment to identity as an individual (i.e. the one who has siddhis) exclusive of an understanding of ourselves as the Self. To belabor the existence of such siddhis without the evidence is to hammer this point home again and again. > Main Entry: clair·voy·ance > Pronunciation: klar-'voi-&n(t)s, kler- > Function: noun > 1840 > 1 : the power or faculty of discerning objects not present to the senses > 2 : ability to perceive matters beyond the range of ordinary perception := > > > > Main Entry: clair·au·di·ence > Pronunciation: klar-'o-dE-&n(t)s, kler-, -'ä- > Function: noun > Etymology: clair- (as in clairvoyance) + audience (act of hearing) > 1864 > : the power or faculty of hearing something not present to the ear but > regarded as having objective reality > > > Main Entry: div·i·na·tion > Pronunciation: "di-v&-'nA-sh&n > Function: noun > Etymology: Middle English divinacioun, from Latin divination-, divinatio,= > from divinare > 14th century > 1 : the art or practice that seeks to foresee or foretell future events o= r > discover hidden knowledge usually by the interpretation of omens or by th= e > aid of supernatural powers > 2 : unusual insight : intuitive perception /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2002 Report Share Posted January 5, 2002 Good, sober definitions, in this and your other post. These things are acknowledged in many spiritual traditions, even Christianity. The point is, what do they have to do with Enlightenment? The Self is the only Siddhi. So what is the spiritual gain in claiming clairvoyance or denying it? There are fakirs and yogis and scoundrels and infomercial stars who have have the siddhis mentioned in your two helpful posts. Love, --Greg At 03:47 PM 1/5/02 -0600, Lynette wrote: >I looked up three.... I challenge a few of you to look up a few more. Lets >find out what the hoolaa is about these things called siddhis? > .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2002 Report Share Posted January 6, 2002 , "jodyrrr" <jodyrrr@h...> wrote: > , "Lynette" <Lynette@k...> wrote: > > I looked up three.... I challenge a few of you to look up a few > > more. Let= > s > > find out what the hoolaa is about these things called siddhis? > > The hoohaa is not as to whether such things exist. The point I'm > making is that the current seers and departed sages of jnana are > of one voice on siddhis. What that voice is saying is that siddhis > are of no use to the jnani. At best they are mere parlor tricks, > and at worst the most occluding sort of identification with the > individual sense of self known to humanity. This isn't only limited to Jnana as defined by Vedanta. Ask a Zen Buddhist Roshi about it and you'll get the same response... siddhis aren't to be resisted, but are unimportant and in fact best ignored entirely. Self-Realization as a siddhi is an interesting notion, but if so, that is also to be ignored entirely (contemplate that). > If I am a being of special powers, I am not the Self, which has > no power and is beyond any such powers. The Self? Infinite power in the form of "potential to become," inexhaustible possibility and potentiality -- but manifesting spontaneously. The idea of "control" is mind-made only. > So, it is of no use to claim to have siddhis in the context of > a discussion of jnana yoga, and to do so without verifiable > evidence can only be an indication of an attachment to identity > as an individual (i.e. the one who has siddhis) exclusive of an > understanding of ourselves as the Self. Wim has already made clear that he identifies as an individual, and feels no guilt nor has any problem with it. Although such identification constitutes an illusion, i truly respect his sincerity and freedom from guilt and shame. This is a "large step" beyond many of the obsessive controlling tendencies floating around some of these lists. > To belabor the existence of such siddhis without the evidence is to > hammer this point home again and again. The interesting point, seen here, is that Wim himself doesn't seem to mind, yet everyone else is objecting. Why people can't attend to themselves and "The Self" as strongly recommended again and again by Ramana ("why do you ask about this person, that thing... attend to the Self") is a bit of a mystery. Happiness, Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2002 Report Share Posted January 6, 2002 Dear Jody, I have pretty well said everything I have to say on this... (Altogether now... a sigh of relief... :-) I don't have much more to add. Nothing to defend, nothing to prove, nothing to lose, nothing to gain. Jody, what you are referring to, when talking 'siddhis', has nothing to do with me... I don't do parlour tricks, dog and pony shows... You actually never really wanted to find out what I did, what those gifts were specifically. No, instead of that, you always asked for proof... and... when I did tell you what the matter really was, you 'gobbledegooked' it over with your "psycho babble" retorts. I have given you proof, as you know very well yourself... You asked for it, and I gave it to you and, as you know, the nail got hit right on the head, and that is what you are still reacting to... Why don't you say to the list that what I wrote to you is true, what is holding you back, who are you protecting and why? I have no problem with what gifts come with realization, you do... I may be your problem, but you are not mine. You can keep the doubt up as long as you think you need to ignore the "original cause" of your doubt in yourself and the world at large. To deny or ignore that, does not heal, just as much as doubt does not heal..., doubt does not do anything but... spreading doubt.... doubt is a mind game. You are under its spell... Curious, that, even in view of proof, that your doubt has maintained itself, that you decided to keep playing the doubt card. Now you are just on the lookout for a different subject for that stance, protracting your subjective self inquiry once more. With love, Jody, Wim PS I still hope to visit you one time... you might want to get into the particulars of the 'matter', to see how you can clear it up... --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.306 / Virus Database: 166 - Release 12/4/2001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2002 Report Share Posted January 6, 2002 >>Wim: PS I still hope to visit you one time... you might want to get into the particulars of the 'matter', to see how you can clear it up...<< ----- quote ----- Who starts a cult? Some cult leaders are unequivocally psychopaths and con-artists, but others spring from more complex roots. The late British psychiatrist Anthony Storr published a book (Feet of Clay) that discusses common attributes in those who become cult leaders. There often appears in their backgrounds some kind of serious psychological crisis that they have surmounted by interpreting it as a special calling to some higher purpose. Even those gurus who start out believing they are on an inspired mission to improve the lives of others usually succumb to the seductions of unbridled adoration and privilege, resulting ultimately in disaster. It is as Lord Acton so wisely admonished: “Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.” - Barry Beyerstein ~Barry Beyerstein is professor of neuropsychology at Simon Fraser University in Canada. He is a leading skeptic, on the Executive Council of the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal (CSICOP), and a frequent contributor to The Skeptical Inquirer.~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2002 Report Share Posted January 6, 2002 Yes, Greg, and all I can do is smile )) And say so? Love, Lynette - Gregory Goode <goode <>; <> Saturday, January 05, 2002 4:37 PM Re: definitions of some well-known "gifts" > Good, sober definitions, in this and your other post. These things are acknowledged in many spiritual traditions, even Christianity. > > The point is, what do they have to do with Enlightenment? The Self is the only Siddhi. So what is the spiritual gain in claiming clairvoyance or denying it? There are fakirs and yogis and scoundrels and infomercial stars who have have the siddhis mentioned in your two helpful posts. > > Love, > > --Greg > > At 03:47 PM 1/5/02 -0600, Lynette wrote: > >I looked up three.... I challenge a few of you to look up a few more. Lets > >find out what the hoolaa is about these things called siddhis? > > > ... > > > > /join > > > > > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. > > > > Your use of is subject to > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2002 Report Share Posted January 6, 2002 , Wim Borsboom <wim@a...> wrote: [snip] > Jody, what you are referring to, when talking 'siddhis', has nothing to do > with me... I don't do parlour tricks, dog and pony shows... > You actually never really wanted to find out what I did, what those gifts > were specifically. No, instead of that, you always asked for proof... and... > when I did tell you what the matter really was, you 'gobbledegooked' it over > with your "psycho babble" retorts. You said you were talking to Buddha and Ramana, so there was no need to ask what your gifts were. You haven't told me anything in terms of this matter. You have professed gifts but have failed to prove them, and you have tried to make the whole matter my issue when it is obvious to most that it is yours. > > I have given you proof, as you know very well yourself... You asked for it, > and I gave it to you and, as you know, the nail got hit right on the head, > and that is what you are still reacting to... Why don't you say to the list > that what I wrote to you is true, what is holding you back, who are you > protecting and why? I won't say what you wrote is true simply because it isn't Wim, as much as you appear to be hoping otherwise. > I have no problem with what gifts come with realization, you do... I may be > your problem, but you are not mine. You can keep the doubt up as long as you > think you need to ignore the "original cause" of your doubt in yourself and > the world at large. To deny or ignore that, does not heal, just as much as > doubt does not heal..., doubt does not do anything but... spreading > doubt.... doubt is a mind game. You are under its spell... > Curious, that, even in view of proof, that your doubt has maintained itself, > that you decided to keep playing the doubt card. > Now you are just on the lookout for a different subject for that stance, > protracting your subjective self inquiry once more. > > With love, Jody, Wim Once again you've attempted to turn the tables. Nothing has been resolved here except a) you haven't proven anything and b) you want us to believe you have special powers. I'd take up Gloria on her suggestion to refrain from advertising yourself and your "services." > PS > I still hope to visit you one time... you might want to get into the > particulars of the 'matter', to see how you can clear it up... You are not welcome to come visit me. However, I wish you the best in your life. Take care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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