Valid cognition

January 7, 2002

Hi:

Does Valid Cognition just apply to each person's construction of the

world or does it imply an objective world where one is right or wrong?

If I see my own ego interact in my mentally constructed universe, is

that not valid cognition? Does that imply an objective world? or a

totally subjective world?

Since cogition is distinctly mental it must be a part of the

constructed picture of reality.

Each person has a universe or world structure in which they place any

new information or cognition. If a person holds contradictory ideas

(ie, double standard) on an issue, accurate cogniton of information

under that heading is impossible. New info on the subject is

relegated to possible pertinence or unsubstantiated information, both

of which are clutter.

The beauty of Jnana Yoga is that it reduces conflicting viewpoints

allowing accurate cognition. It does this by improving

discrimination between the Self and the not-self, the abstract and

concrete, the relative and absolute, providing distinction between

similars. That is, Jnana Yoga centers on achieving understanding

rather than a practice such as breath control which may lead on to

realization also.

With Jnana Yoga one begins to adopt a picture of the world, inner and

outer, as a mental structure unaffecting the real self.

It is my understanding that reducing clutter is difficult

philosophically or mentally. It requires a fitness that other

disciplines are designed to provide.

It is good to keep in mind that non-dualism is difficult to

understand for some. I believe this list provides a clear aide to

this difficult subject.

My thanks and love to all.

LOve

Bobby G.

January 7, 2002

Valid cognition is a Buddhist technical term that applies to a certain level of

unmistaken-ness in the way a mind cognizes an object. Valid cognition is not

such a useful term in Jnana Yoga, where the path is not to hone and sharpen

one's cognition, but to intuit/see/be the Truth beyond all cognition. Actually,

the very notion of "accurate" is one of the main stumbling blocks, which a good

Jnana Yoga teacher/teaching can help with.

Nevertheless, Jnana Yoga does indulge in quite a bit of philosophy, but only in

a destructive sense. It proceeds at every level by piercing holes in the

student's most dearly held notions.

Love,

--Greg

At 09:09 PM 1/7/02 +0000, texasbg2000 wrote:

>Hi:

>

>Does Valid Cognition just apply to each person's construction of the

>world or does it imply an objective world where one is right or wrong?

>

>If I see my own ego interact in my mentally constructed universe, is

>that not valid cognition? Does that imply an objective world? or a

>totally subjective world?

>

>Since cogition is distinctly mental it must be a part of the

>constructed picture of reality.

>

>Each person has a universe or world structure in which they place any

>new information or cognition. If a person holds contradictory ideas

>(ie, double standard) on an issue, accurate cogniton of information

>under that heading is impossible. New info on the subject is

>relegated to possible pertinence or unsubstantiated information, both

>of which are clutter.

>

>The beauty of Jnana Yoga is that it reduces conflicting viewpoints

>allowing accurate cognition. It does this by improving

>discrimination between the Self and the not-self, the abstract and

>concrete, the relative and absolute, providing distinction between

>similars. That is, Jnana Yoga centers on achieving understanding

>rather than a practice such as breath control which may lead on to

>realization also.

>

>With Jnana Yoga one begins to adopt a picture of the world, inner and

>outer, as a mental structure unaffecting the real self.

>

>It is my understanding that reducing clutter is difficult

>philosophically or mentally. It requires a fitness that other

>disciplines are designed to provide.

>

>It is good to keep in mind that non-dualism is difficult to

>understand for some. I believe this list provides a clear aide to

>this difficult subject.

>My thanks and love to all.

>

>LOve

>Bobby G.

>

>/join

>

>All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights,

perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back

into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean,

all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does

not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is.

Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee

relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into

It Self. Welcome all to a.

>

>Your use of is subject to

January 7, 2002

On 1/7/02 at 9:09 PM texasbg2000 wrote:

ºHi:

º

ºDoes Valid Cognition just apply to each person's construction of the

ºworld or does it imply an objective world where one is right or wrong?

[...]

>From one perspective, terms like valid/invalid, right/wrong,

subjective/objective could be

called subjective - what is invalid for one, is invalid for another, etc...

And that shows the uselessness of such terminology: the paradox that

the objective is subjective. When everything is objective

(neither am i the mind, nor the senses, nor the body), the term 'objective'

is in relation to the observer of it - who isn't there as an 'entity'.

When everything is subjective (everything is God), the term 'subjective'

doesn't apply because there can't be an observer separate from God to

distinguish between 'subjective' or objective'.

>From another perspective, the above notions only are 'living' in the mind

as thought. Perception without any thought isn't utopia but the 'natural

state' and then, the above terms are meaningless.

Jan

January 7, 2002

Spellcheck makes lazy and doesn't correct some typos:

[...]

what is valid for one, is invalid for another, etc...

[...]

ºJan

January 8, 2002

Dear Greg:

I'm afraid I'm not able to hold a thread on the list right now as I

have to access from the local library while my computer is down.

I will bow to your superior experience on what Jnana is or is not.

Thank you.

> Valid cognition is a Buddhist technical term that applies to a

certain level of unmistaken-ness in the way a mind cognizes an

object. Valid cognition is not such a useful term in Jnana Yoga,

where the path is not to hone and sharpen one's cognition, but to

intuit/see/be the Truth beyond all cognition.

Discarding false notions would rightly fall under the teaching of

Raja Yoga. Patanjali presents valid cognition as on of the five

fluctuations of consciousness.

>Actually, the very notion of "accurate" is one of the main

stumbling blocks, which a good Jnana Yoga teacher/teaching can help

with.

> Nevertheless, Jnana Yoga does indulge in quite a bit of philosophy,

but only in a destructive sense. It proceeds at every level by

piercing holes in the student's most dearly held notions.

Recently I have been inspecting thought threads that occur to me

trying to see which mental attribute is being utilized.(Memory,

dreaming, logic, intuition, or imagination.) It seems I dream a

lot. I think a lot of what my career will bring, what I may do, and

what may happen. Several years ago I was more interested in memory.

These tendencies of the mind I think of as my karma.

If, by way of noticing it, I discard a dream I am having, another

takes its place after a short time. This does not leave me barren

but convinces me of the truth of what you just wrote.

Accuracy or validity of thought is not an issue in Jnana Yoga.

I think I was right about it being difficult.

Love,

Bobby G.

>

> Love,

>

> --Greg

>

> At 09:09 PM 1/7/02 +0000, texasbg2000 wrote:

> >Hi:

> >

> >Does Valid Cognition just apply to each person's construction of

the

> >world or does it imply an objective world where one is right or

wrong?

> >

> >If I see my own ego interact in my mentally constructed universe,

is

> >that not valid cognition? Does that imply an objective world? or

a

> >totally subjective world?

> >

> >Since cogition is distinctly mental it must be a part of the

> >constructed picture of reality.

> >

> >Each person has a universe or world structure in which they place

any

> >new information or cognition. If a person holds contradictory

ideas

> >(ie, double standard) on an issue, accurate cogniton of

information

> >under that heading is impossible. New info on the subject is

> >relegated to possible pertinence or unsubstantiated information,

both

> >of which are clutter.

> >

> >The beauty of Jnana Yoga is that it reduces conflicting viewpoints

> >allowing accurate cognition. It does this by improving

> >discrimination between the Self and the not-self, the abstract and

> >concrete, the relative and absolute, providing distinction between

> >similars. That is, Jnana Yoga centers on achieving understanding

> >rather than a practice such as breath control which may lead on to

> >realization also.

> >

> >With Jnana Yoga one begins to adopt a picture of the world, inner

and

> >outer, as a mental structure unaffecting the real self.

> >

> >It is my understanding that reducing clutter is difficult

> >philosophically or mentally. It requires a fitness that other

> >disciplines are designed to provide.

> >

> >It is good to keep in mind that non-dualism is difficult to

> >understand for some. I believe this list provides a clear aide to

> >this difficult subject.

> >My thanks and love to all.

> >

> >LOve

> >Bobby G.

> >

> >/join

> >

> >All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places,

sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist

in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising

are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness

are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is

always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know

the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee

relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from

within into It Self. Welcome all to a.

> >

> >Your use of is subject to

January 8, 2002

, "jb" <kvy9@l...> wrote:

> On 1/7/02 at 9:09 PM texasbg2000 wrote:

>

> ºHi:

> º

> ºDoes Valid Cognition just apply to each person's construction of

the

> ºworld or does it imply an objective world where one is right or

wrong?

> [...]

> From one perspective, terms like valid/invalid, right/wrong,

subjective/objective could be

> called subjective - what is invalid for one, is invalid for

another, etc...

> And that shows the uselessness of such terminology: the paradox that

> the objective is subjective. When everything is objective

> (neither am i the mind, nor the senses, nor the body), the

term 'objective'

> is in relation to the observer of it - who isn't there as

an 'entity'.

> When everything is subjective (everything is God), the

term 'subjective'

> doesn't apply because there can't be an observer separate from God

to

> distinguish between 'subjective' or objective'.

>

> From another perspective, the above notions only are 'living' in

the mind

> as thought. Perception without any thought isn't utopia but

the 'natural

> state' and then, the above terms are meaningless.

>

> Jan

Dear Jan:

How right you are!

Your mini-essay is as good as I've ever seen.

It's like a car

that never moves yet takes me where I've never been.

LOve

Bobby G.

January 8, 2002

Dear Greg,

You wrote:

>>> Nevertheless, Jnana Yoga does indulge in quite a bit of philosophy, but

only in a destructive sense. It proceeds at every level by piercing holes

in the student's most dearly held notions.

You are so right, as long as one is convinced that one has special and

personal reasons to hold on to one's personal beliefs in any variation of

privilege and/or draw back, advantage or disadvantage..., beliefs so often

held dear to one's heart, one will not recover one's innate and authentic

freedom.

And also, as long as one looks for release and freedom that is based on the

relinquishment of conditional prerequisites one lives and maintains a life

of illusion and suffering.

Conundrum...?

Nope!

Lovingly...

Wim

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January 8, 2002

Jody ???!!!

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January 8, 2002

, Wim Borsboom <wim@a...> wrote:

[snip]

> You are so right, as long as one is convinced that one has special and

> personal reasons to hold on to one's personal beliefs in any variation of

> privilege and/or draw back, advantage or disadvantage..., beliefs so often

> held dear to one's heart, one will not recover one's innate and authentic

> freedom.

Equally true would be the statement:

As long as one is convinced that one has special powers, one will

not recover their innate and authentic freedom.

[snip]

January 8, 2002

, "Gloria Lee" <glee@c...> wrote:

>

> Uh... Jody, how about we make a deal that so long as Wim does not

> bring up his personal siddhas directly, no one else needs to either?

> At least until Harsha returns...

>

> We are hoping for a temporary peace in the meantime. It really isn't

> fair to tie Wim's hands and allow others to take shots at him.

>

> Wim, thanks for demonstrating your cooperation. Very much

> appreciated.

>

> Gloria

Fair enough.

My point is this: if there is one who enjoys special powers,

that one is bound, as freedom Itself has no power whatsoever.

[snip]

January 8, 2002

Uh... Jody, how about we make a deal that so long as Wim does not

bring up his personal siddhas directly, no one else needs to either?

At least until Harsha returns...

We are hoping for a temporary peace in the meantime. It really isn't

fair to tie Wim's hands and allow others to take shots at him.

Wim, thanks for demonstrating your cooperation. Very much appreciated.

Gloria

- jodyrrr

Tuesday, January 08, 2002 2:49 PM

Re: Valid cognition

, Wim Borsboom <wim@a...> wrote:[snip]> You

are so right, as long as one is convinced that one has special and>

personal reasons to hold on to one's personal beliefs in any

variation of> privilege and/or draw back, advantage or

disadvantage..., beliefs so often> held dear to one's heart, one will

not recover one's innate and authentic> freedom.Equally true would be

the statement:As long as one is convinced that one has special

powers, one will not recover their innate and authentic

freedom.[snip]/join

All paths go

somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions,

and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back

into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than

the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of

Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It

is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the

Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of

Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self.

Welcome all to a.Your use of is subject

to the

January 8, 2002

That's it -- if there's a one who ... then there is still a one. And where

there's one, there's two!

--Greg

At 08:23 PM 1/8/02 +0000, jodyrrr wrote:

>, "Gloria Lee" <glee@c...> wrote:

>>

>> Uh... Jody, how about we make a deal that so long as Wim does not

>> bring up his personal siddhas directly, no one else needs to either?

>> At least until Harsha returns...

>>

>> We are hoping for a temporary peace in the meantime. It really isn't

>> fair to tie Wim's hands and allow others to take shots at him.

>>

>> Wim, thanks for demonstrating your cooperation. Very much

>> appreciated.

>>

>> Gloria

>

>Fair enough.

>

>My point is this: if there is one who enjoys special powers,

>that one is bound, as freedom Itself has no power whatsoever.

>

>[snip]

>

>/join

>

>All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights,

perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back

into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean,

all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does

not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is.

Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee

relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into

It Self. Welcome all to a.

>

>Your use of is subject to

January 8, 2002

You are welcome...

Wim

Gloria Lee

[glee (AT) citlink (DOT) net]Tuesday, January 08, 2002 12:26 PMTo:

Subject: Re: Re: Valid

cognition