Guest guest Posted February 4, 2002 Report Share Posted February 4, 2002 Once again we're smack in the middle of that perennial debate, do we exist as individuals or don't we. For the one who only knows the Self, we don't. Still, even one such as this must handle a keyboard to tell us about it. For those whose minds continue to render the world as the world and a perspective on it, believing this to be delusion and knowing it to be delusion are not the same thing. The hallmark of NonDualThink is to take one to be the other. It is an unfortunate occurrance when a decision is made to formulate a belief in the absence of the understanding. The result is the installation of a worldview. Like an invading species of plant that crowds out the natives, this worldview replaces clarity, resulting in a mind bound by its ideas of being beyond ideas. Of course this all entails acceptance of the apparent reality of individuals who possess worldviews. Those who know there are no individuals can dismiss the above as meaningless. Those who think they know must dismiss it as well. Despite the seeming congruence of the rhetoric, these 'two' cases (if one is to believe in such silly things) are like night and day. One can stand at the foot of a mountain and say that there's snow on the peak, but only those on top will be able to feel the cold of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2002 Report Share Posted February 4, 2002 , "jodyrrr" <jodyrrr@h...> wrote: > For the one who only knows the Self, we don't. Still, > even one such as this must handle a keyboard to tell us > about it. A 'body-mind' handles a keyboard -- a mechanism. No denigration implied there, body-minds are very fancy, complex and graceful mechanisms, but mechanisms nonetheless. > For those whose minds continue to render the world as > the world and a perspective on it, believing this to > be delusion and knowing it to be delusion are not the > same thing. All beliefs are false, bar none. If you like, take that as a truism (just don't believe it). > The hallmark of NonDualThink is to take one to be the > other. It is an unfortunate occurrance when a decision > is made to formulate a belief in the absence of the > understanding. Yikes, we have another Tony here... Why not take up his term VNDism (Verbal Nondualism) instead, it's a bit more creative at least :-). > The result is the installation of a worldview. Like > an invading species of plant that crowds out the natives, > this worldview replaces clarity, resulting in a mind > bound by its ideas of being beyond ideas. You really seem to be an expert on this. Cheers, Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2002 Report Share Posted February 5, 2002 Thanks for the timely laugh. Love eric. Visit CompUSA! Don't miss out! AdvaitaThinkâ„¢ 1.0, with Language Option and NondualSpeakâ„¢ StyleChecker installed. Compatible with Windows and Macintosh versions of MS Word and WordPerfect, along with most E-mail software. Features include: -Automatic deletion or optional quotation of those pesky personal pronouns! -Automatic conversion of "I" to "here" and "you" to "there"! -Automatic quote marks for "real,unreal,exist,problem" and other illusory words! -Automatic all-caps rendering of THAT, THAT, AM, IS and any other nondual word! -For any adjective, include its antonym! -For any noun, or pronoun, automatically generate its "not-it" companion -Easily generate verbal either/or and neither/nor combinations Visit www.AdvaitaThink.com for trial package and free downloads! At 04:42 PM 2/5/02 +0000, dan330033 wrote: Clarity, as you say, won't be gained by having the supposedly "right" thought process, or having some kind of "advaita thinking" installed. /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2002 Report Share Posted February 5, 2002 Hi Jody -- Thanks for sharing your insight! As I understand this -- it's not really a debate, it's a matter of perception. And if the perception seems real, it seems real at the time that it does, regardless of what's said in a debate. What makes the perception (of a separate self-existence) seem real? Essentially, the distinction between "me" and "not-me" taken as an ongoing, determined fact. What's involved in seeing through this perrenial perceptual human distinction? Only clarity that such distinction can show up verbally, cognitively, and comparatively without ever actually being present. Clarity, as you say, won't be gained by having the supposedly "right" thought process, or having some kind of "advaita thinking" installed. Clarity is merely *presence* itself, as is. Prior to any thought, following any thought, and never impeded by any thought. The sense that there is an occlusion (or an individual, or separate things in a world) is just a perceptual distortion based on contradiction. That contradiction attempts to "have a life" but it never really can or does. (That's why it's a contradiction.) Nonetheless, the distinction between "me" and "not-me" will remain essential to language, communication, social norms, and perception that uses memory as a reference for definitions. So, clarity is "seeing through" appearances, not to something else, but *as* "what is" ... Namaste, Dan , "jodyrrr" <jodyrrr@h...> wrote: > Once again we're smack in the middle of that perennial > debate, do we exist as individuals or don't we. > > For the one who only knows the Self, we don't. Still, > even one such as this must handle a keyboard to tell us > about it. > > For those whose minds continue to render the world as > the world and a perspective on it, believing this to > be delusion and knowing it to be delusion are not the > same thing. > > The hallmark of NonDualThink is to take one to be the > other. It is an unfortunate occurrance when a decision > is made to formulate a belief in the absence of the > understanding. > > The result is the installation of a worldview. Like > an invading species of plant that crowds out the natives, > this worldview replaces clarity, resulting in a mind > bound by its ideas of being beyond ideas. > > Of course this all entails acceptance of the apparent > reality of individuals who possess worldviews. Those > who know there are no individuals can dismiss the above > as meaningless. Those who think they know must dismiss > it as well. Despite the seeming congruence of the rhetoric, > these 'two' cases (if one is to believe in such silly > things) are like night and day. > > One can stand at the foot of a mountain and say that > there's snow on the peak, but only those on top will > be able to feel the cold of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2002 Report Share Posted February 5, 2002 Visit CompUSA! Don't miss out! AdvaitaThink™ 1.0, with Language Option and NondualSpeak™ StyleChecker installed. Compatible with Windows and Macintosh versions of MS Word and WordPerfect, along with most E-mail software. Features include: -Automatic deletion or optional quotation of those pesky personal pronouns! -Automatic conversion of "I" to "here" and "you" to "there"! -Automatic quote marks for "real,unreal," "exist,problem" and other illusory words! -Automatic all-caps rendering of THAT, THAT, AM, IS and any other nondual word! -For any adjective, include its antonym! -For any noun, or pronoun, automatically generate its "not-it" companion -Easily generate verbal either/or and neither/nor combinations Visit www.AdvaitaThink.com for trial package and free downloads! At 04:42 PM 2/5/02 +0000, dan330033 wrote: Clarity, as you say, won't be gained by having the supposedly "right" thought process, or having some kind of "advaita thinking" installed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2002 Report Share Posted February 5, 2002 Fewtch, Jodyrrr & Friends, You can say what you like about Tony, but Vndism is a great concept and deserves it's own consideration. I, for one, think it hits a certain mode of thinking right on cue. yours in the bonds, eric , "fewtch" <coresite@a...> wrote: > , "jodyrrr" <jodyrrr@h...> wrote: > > For the one who only knows the Self, we don't. Still, > > even one such as this must handle a keyboard to tell us > > about it. > > A 'body-mind' handles a keyboard -- a mechanism. No denigration > implied there, body-minds are very fancy, complex and graceful > mechanisms, but mechanisms nonetheless. > > > For those whose minds continue to render the world as > > the world and a perspective on it, believing this to > > be delusion and knowing it to be delusion are not the > > same thing. > > All beliefs are false, bar none. If you like, take that as a truism > (just don't believe it). > > > The hallmark of NonDualThink is to take one to be the > > other. It is an unfortunate occurrance when a decision > > is made to formulate a belief in the absence of the > > understanding. > > Yikes, we have another Tony here... Why not take up his term VNDism > (Verbal Nondualism) instead, it's a bit more creative at least :-). > > > The result is the installation of a worldview. Like > > an invading species of plant that crowds out the natives, > > this worldview replaces clarity, resulting in a mind > > bound by its ideas of being beyond ideas. > > You really seem to be an expert on this. > > Cheers, > > Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2002 Report Share Posted February 5, 2002 Hey eric, I agree with you! I think VNDism is a great concept! It's right up there with other phenomena and accusations such as Advaita Shuffle and Nondual Police and Lucknow Disease and "Translation-not-Transformation"! Not only does VNDism pinpoint a certain kind of thinking, but it allows people to poke fun at themselves! --Greg At 07:17 PM 2/5/02 +0000, eblack101 wrote: >Fewtch, Jodyrrr & Friends, > >You can say what you like about Tony, but Vndism is a great concept >and deserves it's own consideration. I, for one, think it hits a >certain mode of thinking right on cue. > >yours in the bonds, >eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2002 Report Share Posted February 5, 2002 Hey, Greg! This is most excellent! LOL!! Count on you to notice the computer metaphor, take it, and run with it! What we really need is a chip to install in the head, with connection to nerve sensors in the mouth and hands (to allow for appropriate gestures so that NondualSpeak looks natural and true). This will give a whole new meaning to the Advaitathink concept: "I speak, but there is no choosing entity involved" :-) Love, Dan >>Greg: >>Visit CompUSA! Don't miss out! AdvaitaThink™ 1.0, with Language Option and NondualSpeak™ StyleChecker installed. Compatible with Windows and Macintosh versions of MS Word and WordPerfect, along with most E-mail software. Features include: -Automatic deletion or optional quotation of those pesky personal pronouns! -Automatic conversion of "I" to "here" and "you" to "there"! -Automatic quote marks for "real,unreal,exist,problem" and other illusory words! -Automatic all-caps rendering of THAT, THAT, AM, IS and any other nondual word! -For any adjective, include its antonym! -For any noun, or pronoun, automatically generate its "not-it" companion -Easily generate verbal either/or and neither/nor combinations Visit www.AdvaitaThink.com for trial package and free downloads! At 04:42 PM 2/5/02 +0000, dan330033 wrote: Clarity, as you say, won't be gained by having the supposedly "right" thought process, or having some kind of "advaita thinking" installed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2002 Report Share Posted February 5, 2002 That's it, the NonDual Cortical ChipSet. Other than possibly the "one" who installs it :-), from then on, it's strictly no entity choosing from then on!! Love, --Greg At 08:00 PM 2/5/02 +0000, dan330033 wrote: >Hey, Greg! > >This is most excellent! > >LOL!! > >Count on you to notice the computer metaphor, > take it, and run with it! > >What we really need is a chip to install > in the head, with connection to nerve sensors > in the mouth and hands (to allow for appropriate gestures > so that NondualSpeak looks natural and true). > >This will give a whole new meaning to the > Advaitathink concept: > "I speak, but there is no choosing entity involved" :-) > >Love, >Dan > > > > > > >>>Greg: >>>Visit CompUSA! Don't miss out! AdvaitaThink™ 1.0, with Language >Option and NondualSpeak™ StyleChecker installed. Compatible with >Windows and Macintosh versions of MS Word and WordPerfect, along with >most E-mail software. Features include: > >-Automatic deletion or optional quotation of those pesky personal >pronouns! >-Automatic conversion of "I" to "here" and "you" to "there"! >-Automatic quote marks for "real,unreal,exist,problem" and >other illusory words! >-Automatic all-caps rendering of THAT, THAT, AM, IS and any other >nondual word! >-For any adjective, include its antonym! >-For any noun, or pronoun, automatically generate its "not-it" >companion >-Easily generate verbal either/or and neither/nor combinations > >Visit www.AdvaitaThink.com for trial package and free downloads! > >At 04:42 PM 2/5/02 +0000, dan330033 wrote: > > >Clarity, as you say, won't be gained by having > the supposedly "right" thought process, or > having some kind of "advaita thinking" installed. > > > >/join > > > > > >All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. > > > >Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2002 Report Share Posted February 5, 2002 Thanks for the laugh Greg - what could be so interesting in 'nondual talk' that some keep doing so for the major part of life? 1. Some will respond to that with quotes 2. Others with analogies 3. Still others with personal stories, the quotes to be 4. Some will say 'don't know' 5. Others will say 'stupid question' 6. Still others will try to prove the question is irrelevant by: a. quotes b. analogies c. personal stories, the quotes to be 7. Some will comment to one or all of the above 8. Others will comment on those comments 9. Still others will try to prove that the issue is neither relevant nor irrelevant but non-existing. 10. Some will find another hobby, neither agreeing nor not agreeing but just being bored with both issues and non-issues, irrespective of their (ir)relevance On 2/5/02 at 12:02 PM Gregory Goode wrote: Visit CompUSA! Don't miss out! AdvaitaThink™ 1.0, with Language Option and NondualSpeak™ StyleChecker installed. Compatible with Windows and Macintosh versions of MS Word and WordPerfect, along with most E-mail software. Features include:-Automatic deletion or optional quotation of those pesky personal pronouns!-Automatic conversion of "I" to "here" and "you" to "there"!-Automatic quote marks for "real,unreal,exist,problem" and other illusory words! -Automatic all-caps rendering of THAT, THAT, AM, IS and any other nondual word!-For any adjective, include its antonym!-For any noun, or pronoun, automatically generate its "not-it" companion-Easily generate verbal either/or and neither/nor combinationsVisit www.AdvaitaThink.com for trial package and free downloads!At 04:42 PM 2/5/02 +0000, dan330033 wrote: Clarity, as you say, won't be gained by having the supposedly "right" thought process, or having some kind of "advaita thinking" installed.http://groups../join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a.Your use of is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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