an 8 year old wonder preacher

February 7, 2002

I am the emotinal body of a father (an Irish Jew), and A Catholic mother.

Yet born in the land of the English.

This book you speak of may be well worth a read.

Have you got the ISBN number and Publishers details?

love

eric.

JB & Friends,

In closing his interesting story about a Hellfire and brimstone

preaching family, JB suggests that the once manic but now depressed

child prodigy of devil combat can..."swing on the emotional universe

as (he) pleases"..and ..."one can escape from one's depressions".

JB, as you can see from the details of the story you have just told

us, our young preacher cannot swing on the emotional universe as he

would like, nor can he "escape from (his) depressions".

As you might also sense between the lines, our young hero is in very

bad straits, and may require some sort of intervention himself, at

the very least, from a psychologist.

If you're sincerely interested in depression and exorcism and how

they interact, I can recommend one book highly: Hostage to the Devil

by Malachi Martin. As it says on the back cover of the paperback

edition, "Malachi Martin is a former Jesuit Professor at the

Pontifical Biblical Institute in Rome. He is the author of more than

a dozen books including Vatican, King of Kings, The Final Conclave

and Jesus Now. It's published by Harper and Row Perennial Library and

is recommended by many Catholic clerics to be the definitive modern

work on the subject, which is how it came to my attention.

It had as much impact on me, although in a much narrower orbit, as

the Gospels of Ramakrishna, and created it's powerful impact in much

the same fashion. Malachi got all his information from interviews

with priests chosen by the Catholic Church to perform these exorcisms

and literal live recordings made of them as they were carried out,

one of which even involves another Catholic priest as the central

subject. It's not word for word, as M's gospel of Ramakrishna, and

the author certainly brings a well honed dramatic sense to his

material, but the sense of personal participation and veresimilitude

is palpable, and at least to me, convincing.

Malachi has also included his own interpretation of the original

latin Roman Rite of Exorcism, which will carry it's own interest for

some of us.

Finally, if you are one of us with a personal interest and, perhaps,

belief in Karma and certain possibilities of reincarnation, I can

tell you that you will find this material positively intriguing. The

clear and numerous indications that this dramatis personnae have

known and worked with one another before in previous life scenarios

is almost overwhelming. The prior relationship between exorcist and

client is also palpable in at least 2 of these cases. If you are

susceptible to beliefs involving the concept of Leela, similar

thoughts on the workings of a personal god, or subtle archetypes or

archetypal beings, this may be the most interesting and provocative

work you will read in a long time. It is certainly the most powerful

argument against certain Catholic doctrines concerning the one-time

opportunity offered by human incarnation, as well as the one time and

eternally binding choice of participation in Heaven or Hell. All of

which creates an even more powerful impression from emerging strictly

from live recordings of the actual exorcisms.

Finally, to end on a note of bathos and bring us back to the happy

world of the present, Reader's Digest has given this book the

imprimature of the suburbs by being the first to publish it in hard

cover in America before it was reprinted, also in hard cover, by

Harper and Row.

yours in the bonds,

eric

..

, "new7892001" <JB789@h...> wrote:

> Hi,

>

> Seen a TV-program yesterday, on young preachers in the US..

> The kind of preachers who exercise 'spiritual warfare' against the

> Devil, as they call it.

> A father and his two sons, travelling across the US for

> years, 'spreading the word of the Lord'...

>

> The film showed first the older kid at 8 .. he was full of

confidence

> preaching, gesticulating, repeating loudly 'yes Lord, we have

> Poweeeer over the Devil' and the audience would

reply 'Halleluia.. !'

> and so on.

> Another preacher, 46 years old came to be blessed by the kid. The

> reason was that after 30 some years of preaching, he was not doing

so

> well, he was in a crises/depresion.. so the kid recommended 'faith

> and reading the Bible some more'.. and put his hand on the older

> preacher's head, who thereupon started to shake and speak in

tongues

> and then collapsed.

>

> The father was proud of him.

> The child had no friends. Got no school education.

> As soon as he would be with other kids, he would ask 'what time is

> it' and go away .. he would hardly ever have eye contact with them.

>

> At 14, .. one day when preaching, a woman came to him with her

hands

> up in the air, ready to be saved/healed .. the kid puts his hand on

> her forhead and asks the Lord to remove the Devil who, he thought,

> possesed her.. also said that this is because she does not go to

> church to hear the word of the Bible, often enough ..

> Now, she happened to be a local priest's wife ...

> and her husband was in the hall also.

> At one point, very upset he (the local priest) starts to yell at

the

> kid, denouncing him as being a false/fake preacher ..

> The kid got very ofended and hurt, and while the local priest and

his

> wife were walking towards the door, the kid-preacher started to

> yell: 'Remove this Demon from your house my Lord.. OUT of my

> Saviour's House you Deeeeevil !' ..while pointing his intensely

> vibrating finger.

> (Well, it worked, of course.. he was on the way out anyway.)

>

> Following this incident, the kid went behind the stage and with his

> finger vigorously pointing at, supposedly the Devil ...roared :

> "How Can Youuuu Do this to me ?!.. after soooo many years of me

> preaching.. and you Still put bad thoughts in my head !?.. I will

Not

> let youuuuu ... be lost you Demon !!..".. on and on went the

> conversation and the threats.

> (I imagine that the Devil.. -If he was around.. which

> apparently 'Was' the case-,.. must've head a great time to see how

he

> could affect a preacher ..)

>

> At 18, he was again interviewed .. he was hardly preaching any

> longer,..was alone mostly in his room, on his bed, sleeping much,..

> but still travelling with the father. He was constantly depressed.

No

> friends ..

> Asked how he was feeling, he said, faintly mumbling, that he "was

> tortured by the Devil" and sadly wondered "WHY would he do that to

> me ?!"

>

> His mother was also worried about him .. he would go around as if

> drunk with his eyes hardly open, and was incessantly touching his

> face and eyes, looking rather disturbed and damaged.

> His mother said, "he just needs a damn pair of glasses !, and he's

> gotta get a girlfriend like other boys and a job !",..but admitted

> that he and the father, were 'Obsessed with demons, the Devil and

> hell'. She said he was 'himself' and felt good only 1 out of 24

> hours, while he was preaching.

> Even so, she was proud of her son being a preacher serving the Lord

> and to her, he was chosen by God.

>

> He was asked if he was happy.

> In a rather feeble and depressed tone of voice and rather

> reluctantly, he said

> '.. not really .. uuuhh I don't know ..'

>

> His younger brother (about 10 yrs. old) was also to be ordained as

a

> preacher.. by another preacher ..

> On the way to the place, his father told him how proud he was to

have

> him continue the spiritual warefare aginst the Devil,..

>

> At one point the father asks the young son :

> "Son .. are you looking forwards to be Ordained ?!"

> And the son replies "Oh Yaaaaa !"..

> and two seconds later he adds :

> " .. What is 'Ordained' Daddy ?!"

>

> At the end of the documentary (I have to underline.. this was not a

> fiction-movie but a documentary) the older son, now 20, was asked

> what he would like in his life ..

> He replied "I would like a church, filled with 5.000 people, to

whom

> I can talk and preach the word of the Lord .."...

> but his tone of voice was still revealing his depression and also

the

> lack of confidence and eagerness, he used to have, at the age of 8.

>

> God and the Devil.. responsible for everything ..

> a tragedy of extreme dualism ?

> And the fight/warfare against the Devil, .. did _the fight_ create

> the Devil ?

> A case of intense conditioning, with no possibility for realease

from

> it claws ?

> Apparently so...

> Would there be a 'Devil' if there was no 'God'..

> and viceversa ?

> And is this conditioning, The 'devil' itsself ?

>

> His father was asked by the interviewer, in connection with the

kids

> bad state :

> 'should'nt you just have him stop doing all this, and let him have

a

> normal life ?'

> The father replied :

> 'Well, some doctor said he might be autistic, but they do not

really

> know .. No, no,.. my son has been chosen to do the work of the

Lord'.

> Apparently, _both_ of His sons.

> And he divorced his wife, and continued traveling, spreading the

word

> and hoping one day, to have his own church.

>

> regards,

> Jb

> PS. In a way, the kid-preacher, is an enviable position ..

> a position where one can exercize power, one can send anyone whom

one

> does not like to hell while others applaud, one is listened to and

> gets Hallluia feedbacks, one can indulge in desires for personal

fame

> and success, one is never contradicted, one receives gifts from the

> congregation, one can channelize one's anger by projecting the

Devil

> on the object of hatred, one can do swing on the emotional universe

> as one pleases, one can feel the strength generated by the

attention

> of the yes-sayers listening, one can escape from one's depressions,

> one can freely judge another, one can generate fear in another (the

> Fear of God), one can regard oneself as a kind of a Superman

fighting

> the Whole world's evil ones.. one has a meaning for the duration of

> one's whole life,

> ..and all this with the 'guarrantee' that in the end,

> one will be victorious .. and succesful ..

> and all this, in the name of the Lord.

>

> I mean,.. to win with one's opinion over another's, or a

> phylosophical/political dispute, must be sheer and fragile peanuts,

> compared to the 'joy the Lord can give' and the guarrantee for

> winning, while in his service.

>

> As a matter of fact, I know a bit about that joyful feeling

> of 'speaking for the Absolute Truth'..

> (.. you too ?!)

> but alás, it does'nt last long ..

> _Some_ ignorant ! fool, comes along, and puts a needle into my

> bloated of self-worth and confidence baloon ..

>

> But then,.. they would Not dare to do such an evil thing, IF I was

an

> Authorized speaker,..

> would they ?!

>

> """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

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the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always

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to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the

Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It

Self. Welcome all to a.

Your use of is subject to

February 7, 2002

Hi,

Seen a TV-program yesterday, on young preachers in the US..

The kind of preachers who exercise 'spiritual warfare' against the

Devil, as they call it.

A father and his two sons, travelling across the US for

years, 'spreading the word of the Lord'...

The film showed first the older kid at 8 .. he was full of confidence

preaching, gesticulating, repeating loudly 'yes Lord, we have

Poweeeer over the Devil' and the audience would reply 'Halleluia.. !'

and so on.

Another preacher, 46 years old came to be blessed by the kid. The

reason was that after 30 some years of preaching, he was not doing so

well, he was in a crises/depresion.. so the kid recommended 'faith

and reading the Bible some more'.. and put his hand on the older

preacher's head, who thereupon started to shake and speak in tongues

and then collapsed.

The father was proud of him.

The child had no friends. Got no school education.

As soon as he would be with other kids, he would ask 'what time is

it' and go away .. he would hardly ever have eye contact with them.

At 14, .. one day when preaching, a woman came to him with her hands

up in the air, ready to be saved/healed .. the kid puts his hand on

her forhead and asks the Lord to remove the Devil who, he thought,

possesed her.. also said that this is because she does not go to

church to hear the word of the Bible, often enough ..

Now, she happened to be a local priest's wife ...

and her husband was in the hall also.

At one point, very upset he (the local priest) starts to yell at the

kid, denouncing him as being a false/fake preacher ..

The kid got very ofended and hurt, and while the local priest and his

wife were walking towards the door, the kid-preacher started to

yell: 'Remove this Demon from your house my Lord.. OUT of my

Saviour's House you Deeeeevil !' ..while pointing his intensely

vibrating finger.

(Well, it worked, of course.. he was on the way out anyway.)

Following this incident, the kid went behind the stage and with his

finger vigorously pointing at, supposedly the Devil ...roared :

"How Can Youuuu Do this to me ?!.. after soooo many years of me

preaching.. and you Still put bad thoughts in my head !?.. I will Not

let youuuuu ... be lost you Demon !!..".. on and on went the

conversation and the threats.

(I imagine that the Devil.. -If he was around.. which

apparently 'Was' the case-,.. must've head a great time to see how he

could affect a preacher ..)

At 18, he was again interviewed .. he was hardly preaching any

longer,..was alone mostly in his room, on his bed, sleeping much,..

but still travelling with the father. He was constantly depressed. No

friends ..

Asked how he was feeling, he said, faintly mumbling, that he "was

tortured by the Devil" and sadly wondered "WHY would he do that to

me ?!"

His mother was also worried about him .. he would go around as if

drunk with his eyes hardly open, and was incessantly touching his

face and eyes, looking rather disturbed and damaged.

His mother said, "he just needs a damn pair of glasses !, and he's

gotta get a girlfriend like other boys and a job !",..but admitted

that he and the father, were 'Obsessed with demons, the Devil and

hell'. She said he was 'himself' and felt good only 1 out of 24

hours, while he was preaching.

Even so, she was proud of her son being a preacher serving the Lord

and to her, he was chosen by God.

He was asked if he was happy.

In a rather feeble and depressed tone of voice and rather

reluctantly, he said

'.. not really .. uuuhh I don't know ..'

His younger brother (about 10 yrs. old) was also to be ordained as a

preacher.. by another preacher ..

On the way to the place, his father told him how proud he was to have

him continue the spiritual warefare aginst the Devil,..

At one point the father asks the young son :

"Son .. are you looking forwards to be Ordained ?!"

And the son replies "Oh Yaaaaa !"..

and two seconds later he adds :

" .. What is 'Ordained' Daddy ?!"

At the end of the documentary (I have to underline.. this was not a

fiction-movie but a documentary) the older son, now 20, was asked

what he would like in his life ..

He replied "I would like a church, filled with 5.000 people, to whom

I can talk and preach the word of the Lord .."...

but his tone of voice was still revealing his depression and also the

lack of confidence and eagerness, he used to have, at the age of 8.

God and the Devil.. responsible for everything ..

a tragedy of extreme dualism ?

And the fight/warfare against the Devil, .. did _the fight_ create

the Devil ?

A case of intense conditioning, with no possibility for realease from

it claws ?

Apparently so...

Would there be a 'Devil' if there was no 'God'..

and viceversa ?

And is this conditioning, The 'devil' itsself ?

His father was asked by the interviewer, in connection with the kids

bad state :

'should'nt you just have him stop doing all this, and let him have a

normal life ?'

The father replied :

'Well, some doctor said he might be autistic, but they do not really

know .. No, no,.. my son has been chosen to do the work of the Lord'.

Apparently, _both_ of His sons.

And he divorced his wife, and continued traveling, spreading the word

and hoping one day, to have his own church.

regards,

Jb

PS. In a way, the kid-preacher, is an enviable position ..

a position where one can exercize power, one can send anyone whom one

does not like to hell while others applaud, one is listened to and

gets Hallluia feedbacks, one can indulge in desires for personal fame

and success, one is never contradicted, one receives gifts from the

congregation, one can channelize one's anger by projecting the Devil

on the object of hatred, one can do swing on the emotional universe

as one pleases, one can feel the strength generated by the attention

of the yes-sayers listening, one can escape from one's depressions,

one can freely judge another, one can generate fear in another (the

Fear of God), one can regard oneself as a kind of a Superman fighting

the Whole world's evil ones.. one has a meaning for the duration of

one's whole life,

...and all this with the 'guarrantee' that in the end,

one will be victorious .. and succesful ..

and all this, in the name of the Lord.

I mean,.. to win with one's opinion over another's, or a

phylosophical/political dispute, must be sheer and fragile peanuts,

compared to the 'joy the Lord can give' and the guarrantee for

winning, while in his service.

As a matter of fact, I know a bit about that joyful feeling

of 'speaking for the Absolute Truth'..

(.. you too ?!)

but alás, it does'nt last long ..

_Some_ ignorant ! fool, comes along, and puts a needle into my

bloated of self-worth and confidence baloon ..

But then,.. they would Not dare to do such an evil thing, IF I was an

Authorized speaker,..

would they ?!

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

February 7, 2002