Guest guest Posted February 7, 2002 Report Share Posted February 7, 2002 Hi Krishna, The Ceasing of Notions (A Zen Text from the Tun-Huang caves). Comments by Soko Morinaga Roshi. love eric [Only the first part of this message is displayed. The entire message has been turned into a text attachment, which you can retrieve by clicking the Download button. Once downloaded, open the file with a word processor or text editor and you will be able to read it.] Hi, I have been a silent reader of all contributions in this satsang. I enjoy every bit of it. I feel compelled to write today. Being an avid reader, I have a question for all of you........ WHICH BOOKS HAVE IMPACTED YOU THE MOST IN SPIRITUALITY/ NON DUALISM/ ADVAITA, etc.? For me it has been : 1. I am that...Nisargadatta Maharaj 2. Be as you are....David Godman 3. Self enquiry with Understanding.....Sir Shree Tejparkhiji. What have been books that have impacted you the most. Please share... Thanks, Krishna. [] Friday, February 08, 2002 10:53 AM Digest Number 1595 /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. ------ There are 17 messages in this issue. Topics in this digest: 1. Re: Music and Non-Dualism Bruce Morgen <editor (AT) juno (DOT) com> 2. Re: Music and Non-Dualism ErcAshfrd (AT) aol (DOT) com 3. an 8 year old wonder preacher "new7892001" <JB789 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> 4. Re: joke trade "fewtch" <coresite (AT) attbi (DOT) com> 5. More on NonDual Speak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2002 Report Share Posted February 8, 2002 Hi, I have been a silent reader of all contributions in this satsang. I enjoy every bit of it. I feel compelled to write today. Being an avid reader, I have a question for all of you........ WHICH BOOKS HAVE IMPACTED YOU THE MOST IN SPIRITUALITY/ NON DUALISM/ ADVAITA, etc.? For me it has been : 1. I am that...Nisargadatta Maharaj 2. Be as you are....David Godman 3. Self enquiry with Understanding.....Sir Shree Tejparkhiji. What have been books that have impacted you the most. Please share... Thanks, Krishna. > [This message contained attachments] ______________________ ______________________ Message: 3 Thu, 07 Feb 2002 19:11:42 -0000 "new7892001" <JB789 an 8 year old wonder preacher Hi, Seen a TV-program yesterday, on young preachers in the US.. The kind of preachers who exercise 'spiritual warfare' against the Devil, as they call it. A father and his two sons, travelling across the US for years, 'spreading the word of the Lord'... The film showed first the older kid at 8 .. he was full of confidence preaching, gesticulating, repeating loudly 'yes Lord, we have Poweeeer over the Devil' and the audience would reply 'Halleluia.. !' and so on. Another preacher, 46 years old came to be blessed by the kid. The reason was that after 30 some years of preaching, he was not doing so well, he was in a crises/depresion.. so the kid recommended 'faith and reading the Bible some more'.. and put his hand on the older preacher's head, who thereupon started to shake and speak in tongues and then collapsed. The father was proud of him. The child had no friends. Got no school education. As soon as he would be with other kids, he would ask 'what time is it' and go away .. he would hardly ever have eye contact with them. At 14, .. one day when preaching, a woman came to him with her hands up in the air, ready to be saved/healed .. the kid puts his hand on her forhead and asks the Lord to remove the Devil who, he thought, possesed her.. also said that this is because she does not go to church to hear the word of the Bible, often enough .. Now, she happened to be a local priest's wife ... and her husband was in the hall also. At one point, very upset he (the local priest) starts to yell at the kid, denouncing him as being a false/fake preacher .. The kid got very ofended and hurt, and while the local priest and his wife were walking towards the door, the kid-preacher started to yell: 'Remove this Demon from your house my Lord.. OUT of my Saviour's House you Deeeeevil !' ..while pointing his intensely vibrating finger. (Well, it worked, of course.. he was on the way out anyway.) Following this incident, the kid went behind the stage and with his finger vigorously pointing at, supposedly the Devil ...roared : "How Can Youuuu Do this to me ?!.. after soooo many years of me preaching.. and you Still put bad thoughts in my head !?.. I will Not let youuuuu ... be lost you Demon !!..".. on and on went the conversation and the threats. (I imagine that the Devil.. -If he was around.. which apparently 'Was' the case-,.. must've head a great time to see how he could affect a preacher ..) At 18, he was again interviewed .. he was hardly preaching any longer,..was alone mostly in his room, on his bed, sleeping much,.. but still travelling with the father. He was constantly depressed. No friends .. Asked how he was feeling, he said, faintly mumbling, that he "was tortured by the Devil" and sadly wondered "WHY would he do that to me ?!" His mother was also worried about him .. he would go around as if drunk with his eyes hardly open, and was incessantly touching his face and eyes, looking rather disturbed and damaged. His mother said, "he just needs a damn pair of glasses !, and he's gotta get a girlfriend like other boys and a job !",..but admitted that he and the father, were 'Obsessed with demons, the Devil and hell'. She said he was 'himself' and felt good only 1 out of 24 hours, while he was preaching. Even so, she was proud of her son being a preacher serving the Lord and to her, he was chosen by God. He was asked if he was happy. In a rather feeble and depressed tone of voice and rather reluctantly, he said '.. not really .. uuuhh I don't know ..' His younger brother (about 10 yrs. old) was also to be ordained as a preacher.. by another preacher .. On the way to the place, his father told him how proud he was to have him continue the spiritual warefare aginst the Devil,.. At one point the father asks the young son : "Son .. are you looking forwards to be Ordained ?!" And the son replies "Oh Yaaaaa !".. and two seconds later he adds : " .. What is 'Ordained' Daddy ?!" At the end of the documentary (I have to underline.. this was not a fiction-movie but a documentary) the older son, now 20, was asked what he would like in his life .. He replied "I would like a church, filled with 5.000 people, to whom I can talk and preach the word of the Lord .."... but his tone of voice was still revealing his depression and also the lack of confidence and eagerness, he used to have, at the age of 8. God and the Devil.. responsible for everything .. a tragedy of extreme dualism ? And the fight/warfare against the Devil, .. did _the fight_ create the Devil ? A case of intense conditioning, with no possibility for realease from it claws ? Apparently so... Would there be a 'Devil' if there was no 'God'.. and viceversa ? And is this conditioning, The 'devil' itsself ? His father was asked by the interviewer, in connection with the kids bad state : 'should'nt you just have him stop doing all this, and let him have a normal life ?' The father replied : 'Well, some doctor said he might be autistic, but they do not really know .. No, no,.. my son has been chosen to do the work of the Lord'. Apparently, _both_ of His sons. And he divorced his wife, and continued traveling, spreading the word and hoping one day, to have his own church. regards, Jb PS. In a way, the kid-preacher, is an enviable position .. a position where one can exercize power, one can send anyone whom one does not like to hell while others applaud, one is listened to and gets Hallluia feedbacks, one can indulge in desires for personal fame and success, one is never contradicted, one receives gifts from the congregation, one can channelize one's anger by projecting the Devil on the object of hatred, one can do swing on the emotional universe as one pleases, one can feel the strength generated by the attention of the yes-sayers listening, one can escape from one's depressions, one can freely judge another, one can generate fear in another (the Fear of God), one can regard oneself as a kind of a Superman fighting the Whole world's evil ones.. one has a meaning for the duration of one's whole life, ...and all this with the 'guarrantee' that in the end, one will be victorious .. and succesful .. and all this, in the name of the Lord. I mean,.. to win with one's opinion over another's, or a phylosophical/political dispute, must be sheer and fragile peanuts, compared to the 'joy the Lord can give' and the guarrantee for winning, while in his service. As a matter of fact, I know a bit about that joyful feeling of 'speaking for the Absolute Truth'.. (.. you too ?!) but alás, it does'nt last long .. _Some_ ignorant ! fool, comes along, and puts a needle into my bloated of self-worth and confidence baloon .. But then,.. they would Not dare to do such an evil thing, IF I was an Authorized speaker,.. would they ?! """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" ______________________ ______________________ Message: 4 Thu, 07 Feb 2002 19:31:50 -0000 "fewtch" <coresite Re: joke trade , Ed <edjason@b...> wrote: > Nasrudin sat on a river bank when someone > shouted to him from the other bank: > "Hey! how do I get across?" > "You are across!" Nasrudin shouted back. Jesus sat on a river bank when someone shouted to him from the other bank: "Hey! how do I get a cross?" :-P Cheers, Tim ______________________ ______________________ Message: 5 Thu, 7 Feb 2002 20:35:45 +0100 MikeSuesserott More on NonDual Speak (was: occlusion) Greg, thank you for the "computer program" and the witty analysis of ND Speak. I also appreciated your fairness in mentioning reason #7 below which may be easy to overlook. Take care, Michael -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- Von: Gregory Goode [goode] Gesendet: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 07:55 An: ; Betreff: More on NonDual Speak (was: occlusion) <snip> 7. But this too. Some people have actually told me that for them, it is a sincere practice and de/re-conditioning exercise: speak the "I" less often and in time, fewer of its mental representations will arise. Try to get that number down to zero, and they'll have a behavioral parallel to the end of the "I-sense." And that is significant to them. [This message contained attachments] ______________________ ______________________ Message: 6 Thu, 07 Feb 2002 19:50:29 -0000 "fewtch" <coresite Re: BHAGAVAD GITA -That which possesses the body is eternal. , "jb" <janb@a...> wrote: > I haven't heard of an illness that increases appetite apart from > bulimia... If its victims would only eat oranges and tangerines at > an attack, it wouldn't be a problem... > The logic, to decide that because colds and flu cause salty mucus to > leave from nose and throat, salt has to be added to food is quite a > laugh: when consuming cooked food without salt, the mucus no longer > is salty, which using the same logic, implies, no addition of salt > to food is required But when consuming raw food containing > little protein, only the functional mucus is formed and illness > ceases. For many, starting to fast will enable the above > observations. Consuming raw food containing little protein is not fasting (by definition). > The detoxing phase, flooded with salty mucus brings tiredness and > irritation, sometimes even an itchy rash. A healthy body can "handle" a wide variety of toxins... the evidence, 20 year olds living on a diet of pizza, beer and cigarettes, and perfectly healthy :-). An unhealthy body, perhaps not... mind-body are connected though, so often an unhealthy body is connected to "unhealthy" thinking. > That is the so called "allergy" > for fruits as some are powerful detoxing agents, like pineapple. > Hence, fasting is NOT for cowards! There are other ways, if fasting isn't an option. Simply decreasing intake of food to a minimum and eating "healthy" is one. That's what would happen anyway, if "hunger" and "appetite" are not confused. Tim ______________________ ______________________ Message: 7 Thu, 7 Feb 2002 15:11:29 EST GCWein1111 Re: BHAGAVAD GITA -That which possesses the body is eternal. In a message dated 2/6/02 11:37:02 PM Pacific Standard Time, deva writes: > > >> So sorry to hear things have not improved. My situation is not the > >> same >> as yours, in that my body does not in itself seem to cause emotions >> as you >> describe. Yet, for other reasons, l think the net result is similar to >> yours. After being besieged by debilitating problems for so long, >> including the fact that any attempt to do spiritual practice only >> increases the energy and greatly exacerbates these problems, l have long >> sensed that the only thing l can do is open my heart. Nothing else feels >> relevant. Of course, it's not the easiest thing to do. ) > > > If you mean in relation to other people you're in contact with, that > will > be easier for me when I can be with other people again. Right now, I'm > pretty isolated. I hope soon to be better enough to write more to the list > and to friends and get out, at least to a support group and maybe church > and so on. > > > If you mean something different, could you say more? > > > Love, > Hi Dharma, l think alot of my meaning was expressed in the poem Mazie just posted, about the Rough Lover. l was partly referring to the way in which this agonizing process has contributed to my becoming more heart centered and compassionate. l've been pretty isolated myself, so it's not something that is actualized externally as much as l'd like it to be. l'm still hoping to change that. Also, though, l think the heart opening quality of this experience offers the best hope for acceptance -- hopefully transcendance. l imagine you've felt this too in some way. For 10 yrs l've been offered so much advice from all the experts and would-be experts -- so many have tried to help, only harming instead, despite good intentions. l've managed to retain faith in little else but love, compassion and basic goodness -- and these are the only things l ask from others. This probly ain't much help -- best l can do right now. ) love, jerry [This message contained attachments] ______________________ ______________________ Message: 8 Thu, 07 Feb 2002 20:54:32 -0000 "eblack101" <EBlackstead Re: Music and Non-Dualism Eric, Ed & Friends, In my college years I remember stumbling on a small book in which the sayings of many different poets were collected, all to the effect that "all poetry aspires to music". I wish I had managed to keep it, but almost all my college books are gone. Really music is the supreme art. Almost everything that can be said of Consciousness or Love can also be said about music, if one can overlook the fact that all the music in this physical world eminates from a physical instrument. Still, once it's in the air... Further, as so many have pointed out, not all music is of this physical world... yours in the bonds, eric ______________________ ______________________ Message: 9 Thu, 07 Feb 2002 14:16:55 -0800 "Mazie Lane" <sraddha54 I Wish I Could Speak Like Music - Hafiz Dear Friends, Like Hafiz says here - I wish I could speak like music. I wish I could put the swaying splendor Of the fields into words So that you could hold Truth Against your body And dance. I am trying the best I can With this crude brush, the tongue, To cover you with light. I wish I could speak like divine music. I want to give you the sublime rhythms Of this earth and the sky's limbs As they joyously spin and surrender, Surrender Against God's luminous breath. Hafiz wants you to hold me Against your precious Body And dance, Dance. >From "The Gift" by Hafiz, translated by Daniel Ladinsky Love, Peace, Mazie _______________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ______________________ ______________________ Message: 10 Thu, 07 Feb 2002 22:30:23 -0000 "eblack101" <EBlackstead Re: an 8 year old wonder preacher JB & Friends, In closing his interesting story about a Hellfire and brimstone preaching family, JB suggests that the once manic but now depressed child prodigy of devil combat can..."swing on the emotional universe as (he) pleases"..and ..."one can escape from one's depressions". JB, as you can see from the details of the story you have just told us, our young preacher cannot swing on the emotional universe as he would like, nor can he "escape from (his) depressions". As you might also sense between the lines, our young hero is in very bad straits, and may require some sort of intervention himself, at the very least, from a psychologist. If you're sincerely interested in depression and exorcism and how they interact, I can recommend one book highly: Hostage to the Devil by Malachi Martin. As it says on the back cover of the paperback edition, "Malachi Martin is a former Jesuit Professor at the Pontifical Biblical Institute in Rome. He is the author of more than a dozen books including Vatican, King of Kings, The Final Conclave and Jesus Now. It's published by Harper and Row Perennial Library and is recommended by many Catholic clerics to be the definitive modern work on the subject, which is how it came to my attention. It had as much impact on me, although in a much narrower orbit, as the Gospels of Ramakrishna, and created it's powerful impact in much the same fashion. Malachi got all his information from interviews with priests chosen by the Catholic Church to perform these exorcisms and literal live recordings made of them as they were carried out, one of which even involves another Catholic priest as the central subject. It's not word for word, as M's gospel of Ramakrishna, and the author certainly brings a well honed dramatic sense to his material, but the sense of personal participation and veresimilitude is palpable, and at least to me, convincing. Malachi has also included his own interpretation of the original latin Roman Rite of Exorcism, which will carry it's own interest for some of us. Finally, if you are one of us with a personal interest and, perhaps, belief in Karma and certain possibilities of reincarnation, I can tell you that you will find this material positively intriguing. The clear and numerous indications that this dramatis personnae have known and worked with one another before in previous life scenarios is almost overwhelming. The prior relationship between exorcist and client is also palpable in at least 2 of these cases. If you are susceptible to beliefs involving the concept of Leela, similar thoughts on the workings of a personal god, or subtle archetypes or archetypal beings, this may be the most interesting and provocative work you will read in a long time. It is certainly the most powerful argument against certain Catholic doctrines concerning the one-time opportunity offered by human incarnation, as well as the one time and eternally binding choice of participation in Heaven or Hell. All of which creates an even more powerful impression from emerging strictly from live recordings of the actual exorcisms. Finally, to end on a note of bathos and bring us back to the happy world of the present, Reader's Digest has given this book the imprimature of the suburbs by being the first to publish it in hard cover in America before it was reprinted, also in hard cover, by Harper and Row. yours in the bonds, eric .. , "new7892001" <JB789@h...> wrote: > Hi, > > Seen a TV-program yesterday, on young preachers in the US.. The kind > of preachers who exercise 'spiritual warfare' against the Devil, as > they call it. A father and his two sons, travelling across the US for > years, 'spreading the word of the Lord'... > > The film showed first the older kid at 8 .. he was full of confidence > preaching, gesticulating, repeating loudly 'yes Lord, we have > Poweeeer over the Devil' and the audience would reply 'Halleluia.. !' > and so on. > Another preacher, 46 years old came to be blessed by the kid. The > reason was that after 30 some years of preaching, he was not doing so > well, he was in a crises/depresion.. so the kid recommended 'faith > and reading the Bible some more'.. and put his hand on the older > preacher's head, who thereupon started to shake and speak in tongues > and then collapsed. > > The father was proud of him. > The child had no friends. Got no school education. > As soon as he would be with other kids, he would ask 'what time is > it' and go away .. he would hardly ever have eye contact with them. > > At 14, .. one day when preaching, a woman came to him with her hands > up in the air, ready to be saved/healed .. the kid puts his hand on > her forhead and asks the Lord to remove the Devil who, he thought, > possesed her.. also said that this is because she does not go to > church to hear the word of the Bible, often enough .. > Now, she happened to be a local priest's wife ... > and her husband was in the hall also. > At one point, very upset he (the local priest) starts to yell at the > kid, denouncing him as being a false/fake preacher .. > The kid got very ofended and hurt, and while the local priest and his > wife were walking towards the door, the kid-preacher started to > yell: 'Remove this Demon from your house my Lord.. OUT of my > Saviour's House you Deeeeevil !' ..while pointing his intensely > vibrating finger. > (Well, it worked, of course.. he was on the way out anyway.) > > Following this incident, the kid went behind the stage and with his > finger vigorously pointing at, supposedly the Devil ...roared : > "How Can Youuuu Do this to me ?!.. after soooo many years of me > preaching.. and you Still put bad thoughts in my head !?.. I will Not > let youuuuu ... be lost you Demon !!..".. on and on went the > conversation and the threats. > (I imagine that the Devil.. -If he was around.. which > apparently 'Was' the case-,.. must've head a great time to see how he > could affect a preacher ..) > > At 18, he was again interviewed .. he was hardly preaching any > longer,..was alone mostly in his room, on his bed, sleeping much,.. > but still travelling with the father. He was constantly depressed. No > friends .. > Asked how he was feeling, he said, faintly mumbling, that he "was > tortured by the Devil" and sadly wondered "WHY would he do that to > me ?!" > > His mother was also worried about him .. he would go around as if > drunk with his eyes hardly open, and was incessantly touching his > face and eyes, looking rather disturbed and damaged. > His mother said, "he just needs a damn pair of glasses !, and he's > gotta get a girlfriend like other boys and a job !",..but admitted > that he and the father, were 'Obsessed with demons, the Devil and > hell'. She said he was 'himself' and felt good only 1 out of 24 > hours, while he was preaching. > Even so, she was proud of her son being a preacher serving the Lord > and to her, he was chosen by God. > > He was asked if he was happy. > In a rather feeble and depressed tone of voice and rather > reluctantly, he said > '.. not really .. uuuhh I don't know ..' > > His younger brother (about 10 yrs. old) was also to be ordained as a > preacher.. by another preacher .. > On the way to the place, his father told him how proud he was to have > him continue the spiritual warefare aginst the Devil,.. > > At one point the father asks the young son : > "Son .. are you looking forwards to be Ordained ?!" > And the son replies "Oh Yaaaaa !".. > and two seconds later he adds : > " .. What is 'Ordained' Daddy ?!" > > At the end of the documentary (I have to underline.. this was not a > fiction-movie but a documentary) the older son, now 20, was asked > what he would like in his life .. > He replied "I would like a church, filled with 5.000 people, to whom > I can talk and preach the word of the Lord .."... > but his tone of voice was still revealing his depression and also the > lack of confidence and eagerness, he used to have, at the age of 8. > > > God and the Devil.. responsible for everything .. > a tragedy of extreme dualism ? > And the fight/warfare against the Devil, .. did _the fight_ create > the Devil ? > A case of intense conditioning, with no possibility for realease from > it claws ? > Apparently so... > Would there be a 'Devil' if there was no 'God'.. > and viceversa ? > And is this conditioning, The 'devil' itsself ? > > His father was asked by the interviewer, in connection with the kids > bad state : > 'should'nt you just have him stop doing all this, and let him have a > normal life ?' > The father replied : > 'Well, some doctor said he might be autistic, but they do not really > know .. No, no,.. my son has been chosen to do the work of the Lord'. > Apparently, _both_ of His sons. > And he divorced his wife, and continued traveling, spreading the word > and hoping one day, to have his own church. > > regards, > Jb > PS. In a way, the kid-preacher, is an enviable position .. > a position where one can exercize power, one can send anyone whom one > does not like to hell while others applaud, one is listened to and > gets Hallluia feedbacks, one can indulge in desires for personal fame > and success, one is never contradicted, one receives gifts from the > congregation, one can channelize one's anger by projecting the Devil > on the object of hatred, one can do swing on the emotional universe > as one pleases, one can feel the strength generated by the attention > of the yes-sayers listening, one can escape from one's depressions, > one can freely judge another, one can generate fear in another (the > Fear of God), one can regard oneself as a kind of a Superman fighting > the Whole world's evil ones.. one has a meaning for the duration of > one's whole life, > ..and all this with the 'guarrantee' that in the end, > one will be victorious .. and succesful .. > and all this, in the name of the Lord. > > > I mean,.. to win with one's opinion over another's, or a > phylosophical/political dispute, must be sheer and fragile peanuts, > compared to the 'joy the Lord can give' and the guarrantee for > winning, while in his service. > > As a matter of fact, I know a bit about that joyful feeling > of 'speaking for the Absolute Truth'.. > (.. you too ?!) > but alás, it does'nt last long .. > _Some_ ignorant ! fool, comes along, and puts a needle into my > bloated of self-worth and confidence baloon .. > > But then,.. they would Not dare to do such an evil thing, IF I was an > Authorized speaker,.. > would they ?! > > """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" ______________________ ______________________ Message: 11 Thu, 7 Feb 2002 17:55:02 EST ErcAshfrd Re: Re: an 8 year old wonder preacher Dear Eric, I am the emotinal body of a father (an Irish Jew), and A Catholic mother. Yet born in the land of the English. This book you speak of may be well worth a read. Have you got the ISBN number and Publishers details? love eric. > JB & Friends, > > In closing his interesting story about a Hellfire and brimstone > preaching family, JB suggests that the once manic but now depressed > child prodigy of devil combat can..."swing on the emotional universe > as (he) pleases"..and ..."one can escape from one's depressions". > > JB, as you can see from the details of the story you have just told > us, our young preacher cannot swing on the emotional universe as he > would like, nor can he "escape from (his) depressions". > > As you might also sense between the lines, our young hero is in very > bad straits, and may require some sort of intervention himself, at > the very least, from a psychologist. > > If you're sincerely interested in depression and exorcism and how > they interact, I can recommend one book highly: Hostage to the Devil > by Malachi Martin. As it says on the back cover of the paperback > edition, "Malachi Martin is a former Jesuit Professor at the > Pontifical Biblical Institute in Rome. He is the author of more than > a dozen books including Vatican, King of Kings, The Final Conclave > and Jesus Now. It's published by Harper and Row Perennial Library and > is recommended by many Catholic clerics to be the definitive modern > work on the subject, which is how it came to my attention. > > It had as much impact on me, although in a much narrower orbit, as > the Gospels of Ramakrishna, and created it's powerful impact in much > the same fashion. Malachi got all his information from interviews > with priests chosen by the Catholic Church to perform these exorcisms > and literal live recordings made of them as they were carried out, > one of which even involves another Catholic priest as the central > subject. It's not word for word, as M's gospel of Ramakrishna, and > the author certainly brings a well honed dramatic sense to his > material, but the sense of personal participation and veresimilitude > is palpable, and at least to me, convincing. > > Malachi has also included his own interpretation of the original > latin Roman Rite of Exorcism, which will carry it's own interest for > some of us. > > Finally, if you are one of us with a personal interest and, perhaps, > belief in Karma and certain possibilities of reincarnation, I can > tell you that you will find this material positively intriguing. The > clear and numerous indications that this dramatis personnae have > known and worked with one another before in previous life scenarios > is almost overwhelming. The prior relationship between exorcist and > client is also palpable in at least 2 of these cases. If you are > susceptible to beliefs involving the concept of Leela, similar > thoughts on the workings of a personal god, or subtle archetypes or > archetypal beings, this may be the most interesting and provocative > work you will read in a long time. It is certainly the most powerful > argument against certain Catholic doctrines concerning the one-time > opportunity offered by human incarnation, as well as the one time and > eternally binding choice of participation in Heaven or Hell. All of > which creates an even more powerful impression from emerging strictly > from live recordings of the actual exorcisms. > > Finally, to end on a note of bathos and bring us back to the happy > world of the present, Reader's Digest has given this book the > imprimature of the suburbs by being the first to publish it in hard > cover in America before it was reprinted, also in hard cover, by > Harper and Row. > > yours in the bonds, > eric > > > > > . > , "new7892001" <JB789@h...> wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Seen a TV-program yesterday, on young preachers in the US.. The kind > > of preachers who exercise 'spiritual warfare' against the Devil, as > > they call it. A father and his two sons, travelling across the US > > for years, 'spreading the word of the Lord'... > > > > The film showed first the older kid at 8 .. he was full of > confidence > > preaching, gesticulating, repeating loudly 'yes Lord, we have > > Poweeeer over the Devil' and the audience would > reply 'Halleluia.. !' > > and so on. > > Another preacher, 46 years old came to be blessed by the kid. The > > reason was that after 30 some years of preaching, he was not doing > so > > well, he was in a crises/depresion.. so the kid recommended 'faith > > and reading the Bible some more'.. and put his hand on the older > > preacher's head, who thereupon started to shake and speak in > tongues > > and then collapsed. > > > > The father was proud of him. > > The child had no friends. Got no school education. > > As soon as he would be with other kids, he would ask 'what time is > > it' and go away .. he would hardly ever have eye contact with them. > > > > At 14, .. one day when preaching, a woman came to him with her > hands > > up in the air, ready to be saved/healed .. the kid puts his hand on > > her forhead and asks the Lord to remove the Devil who, he thought, > > possesed her.. also said that this is because she does not go to > > church to hear the word of the Bible, often enough .. > > Now, she happened to be a local priest's wife ... > > and her husband was in the hall also. > > At one point, very upset he (the local priest) starts to yell at > the > > kid, denouncing him as being a false/fake preacher .. > > The kid got very ofended and hurt, and while the local priest and > his > > wife were walking towards the door, the kid-preacher started to > > yell: 'Remove this Demon from your house my Lord.. OUT of my > > Saviour's House you Deeeeevil !' ..while pointing his intensely > > vibrating finger. > > (Well, it worked, of course.. he was on the way out anyway.) > > > > Following this incident, the kid went behind the stage and with his > > finger vigorously pointing at, supposedly the Devil ...roared : > > "How Can Youuuu Do this to me ?!.. after soooo many years of me > > preaching.. and you Still put bad thoughts in my head !?.. I will > Not > > let youuuuu ... be lost you Demon !!..".. on and on went the > > conversation and the threats. > > (I imagine that the Devil.. -If he was around.. which > > apparently 'Was' the case-,.. must've head a great time to see how > he > > could affect a preacher ..) > > > > At 18, he was again interviewed .. he was hardly preaching any > > longer,..was alone mostly in his room, on his bed, sleeping much,.. > > but still travelling with the father. He was constantly depressed. > No > > friends .. > > Asked how he was feeling, he said, faintly mumbling, that he "was > > tortured by the Devil" and sadly wondered "WHY would he do that to > > me ?!" > > > > His mother was also worried about him .. he would go around as if > > drunk with his eyes hardly open, and was incessantly touching his > > face and eyes, looking rather disturbed and damaged. > > His mother said, "he just needs a damn pair of glasses !, and he's > > gotta get a girlfriend like other boys and a job !",..but admitted > > that he and the father, were 'Obsessed with demons, the Devil and > > hell'. She said he was 'himself' and felt good only 1 out of 24 > > hours, while he was preaching. > > Even so, she was proud of her son being a preacher serving the Lord > > and to her, he was chosen by God. > > > > He was asked if he was happy. > > In a rather feeble and depressed tone of voice and rather > > reluctantly, he said > > '.. not really .. uuuhh I don't know ..' > > > > His younger brother (about 10 yrs. old) was also to be ordained as > a > > preacher.. by another preacher .. > > On the way to the place, his father told him how proud he was to > have > > him continue the spiritual warefare aginst the Devil,.. > > > > At one point the father asks the young son : > > "Son .. are you looking forwards to be Ordained ?!" > > And the son replies "Oh Yaaaaa !".. > > and two seconds later he adds : > > " .. What is 'Ordained' Daddy ?!" > > > > At the end of the documentary (I have to underline.. this was not a > > fiction-movie but a documentary) the older son, now 20, was asked > > what he would like in his life .. > > He replied "I would like a church, filled with 5.000 people, to > whom > > I can talk and preach the word of the Lord .."... > > but his tone of voice was still revealing his depression and also > the > > lack of confidence and eagerness, he used to have, at the age of 8. > > > > > > God and the Devil.. responsible for everything .. > > a tragedy of extreme dualism ? > > And the fight/warfare against the Devil, .. did _the fight_ create > > the Devil ? > > A case of intense conditioning, with no possibility for realease > from > > it claws ? > > Apparently so... > > Would there be a 'Devil' if there was no 'God'.. > > and viceversa ? > > And is this conditioning, The 'devil' itsself ? > > > > His father was asked by the interviewer, in connection with the > kids > > bad state : > > 'should'nt you just have him stop doing all this, and let him have > a > > normal life ?' > > The father replied : > > 'Well, some doctor said he might be autistic, but they do not > really > > know .. No, no,.. my son has been chosen to do the work of the > Lord'. > > Apparently, _both_ of His sons. > > And he divorced his wife, and continued traveling, spreading the > word > > and hoping one day, to have his own church. > > > > regards, > > Jb > > PS. In a way, the kid-preacher, is an enviable position .. a > > position where one can exercize power, one can send anyone whom > one > > does not like to hell while others applaud, one is listened to and > > gets Hallluia feedbacks, one can indulge in desires for personal > fame > > and success, one is never contradicted, one receives gifts from the > > congregation, one can channelize one's anger by projecting the > Devil > > on the object of hatred, one can do swing on the emotional universe > > as one pleases, one can feel the strength generated by the > attention > > of the yes-sayers listening, one can escape from one's depressions, > > one can freely judge another, one can generate fear in another (the > > Fear of God), one can regard oneself as a kind of a Superman > fighting > > the Whole world's evil ones.. one has a meaning for the duration of > > one's whole life, > > ..and all this with the 'guarrantee' that in the end, > > one will be victorious .. and succesful .. > > and all this, in the name of the Lord. > > > > > > I mean,.. to win with one's opinion over another's, or a > > phylosophical/political dispute, must be sheer and fragile peanuts, > > compared to the 'joy the Lord can give' and the guarrantee for > > winning, while in his service. > > > > As a matter of fact, I know a bit about that joyful feeling > > of 'speaking for the Absolute Truth'.. > > (.. you too ?!) > > but alás, it does'nt last long .. > > _Some_ ignorant ! fool, comes along, and puts a needle into my > > bloated of self-worth and confidence baloon .. > > > > But then,.. they would Not dare to do such an evil thing, IF I was > an > > Authorized speaker,.. > > would they ?! > > > > """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" > > > > /join > > > > > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, > perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside > back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than > the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of > Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is > Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality > of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, > spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to > a. > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > > [This message contained attachments] ______________________ ______________________ Message: 12 Thu, 7 Feb 2002 23:58:09 +0100 "Gabriele Ebert" <g.ebert when Jnana dawns Ranganathan: "When, after making some efforts for a job at Madras, I returned to Bhagavan he said, "You told me you had provided for your wife and children. Your elder brother told me they are undergoing hardship." I did not reply, for Bhagavan knows all and is also all powerful. I again went to Madras, and finding my efforts for a job there were in vain, returned to Bhagavan and stayed with him for some time. During that time, one night, when I was sleeping outside on a double cot that was lying there, Bhagavan suddenly came and sat near my feet. Seeing this I got up. Bhagavan asked me, "What is the matter with you? Are you restless and not getting sleep because of your family troubles? Would it be enough for you if you get rupees 10,000?" I kept silent. Once when Bhagavan and I were going round the hill he said, "There are herbs on this hill which could transmute base metals into gold." Then also I kept silent. Bhagavan used often to joke with me and laugh asking "Oh! Are you suffering very much?" He then told me, "When a man sleeps he dreams he is being beaten and that he is suffering terribly. All that would be quite real at that time. But when he wakes up he knows it was only a dream. Similarly when Jnana dawns, all the miseries of this world would appear to be merely a dream." In a few days, I returned to Madurai and through a friend got a manager's job in a motor company. Later, I was also appointed as an agent for the sale of buses in Ramnad and Madurai by another company, with a commission of 5 percent on all sales effected by me. From this and in other ways I got rupees 10,000; and I spent them on the marriages of two of my daughters and for clearing off debts. I never used to mention my family troubles to Bhagavan, nor ask Him for anything. He was himself looking after me and my family, so why should I make any requests for this or that in particular? I left everything to him. I used to tell Bhagavan frequently, "I have entrusted my body, possessions, soul, all to Bhagavan. The entire burden of my family is hereafter yours. I am hereafter only your servant, doing only your behests. I am a puppet moved by your strings." Bhagavan used to laugh and say "Oh, Oh." It never occurred to me to ask him for any wealth. "" (The Maharshi, No. 1 1997) [This message contained attachments] ______________________ ______________________ Message: 13 Thu, 07 Feb 2002 23:20:44 -0000 "dan330033" <dan330033 Re: More on NonDual Speak (was: occlusion) If you're speaking sincerely, great. When you're speaking to show you accept everyone, you don't. When you're sincere, you're clear. No point to analyze your speech to try to show whether it's dual, nondual, beyond nondual, or whatever. If you speak to me with an ulterior motive, to show me that you're in-the-know, you're not. If you speak to me to indicate that you're more in-the-know than those who think they're in-the-know, you're not. When you speak to show you're doing a spiritual practice, you're not. When you speak to be kind to everyone, you're not. When you're speaking unkindly to show you're superior, you're not. Just speak your truth however it is for you. I'll just be open to your truth -- however it comes out! Simple. Love, Dan ______________________ ______________________ Message: 14 Thu, 07 Feb 2002 23:24:55 -0000 "mumblecat2000" <mumblecat Re: BHAGAVAD GITA -That which possesses the bodyis eternal. I'm sorry to hear about your recent resurgence of CSF Dharma ! I hope you will be able to keep your faith if the CSF doesn't pass you by in a short while, or that the question of faith becomes moot during the time the CSF lasts. I suspect everyone that manifests Kundalini at some point experience phsyical and mental fatigue, lasting long or short and find that they have to reduce involvement in the world while that is going on. I do hope yours will pass soon. Warm regards, Amanda. ______________________ ______________________ Message: 15 Thu, 07 Feb 2002 23:35:44 -0000 "mumblecat2000" <mumblecat Re: Music and Non-Dualism > Further, as so many have pointed out, not all music is of this > physical world... Yes some music, especially drums and rythms, have the vibrational power to reach deep inside the mindbody and transform parts of it, even to the extent of making the listeners feel that the music is a part of their body and inside their bodies generated by themselves. It doesn't look as if the music has to be particularly serene to do that, it just requires a certain speed and sequence of varying speed (and vibration = tone) to do that. Love, Amanda. ______________________ ______________________ Message: 16 Thu, 7 Feb 2002 20:23:50 EST ErcAshfrd Re: Re: More on NonDual Speak (was: occlusion) Good non-duel speak Dan. > <If you're speaking sincerely, great. > > When you're speaking to show you accept everyone, > you don't. When you're sincere, you're clear. > > No point to analyze your speech to try to > show whether it's dual, nondual, > beyond nondual, or whatever. > > If you speak to me with an ulterior motive, > to show me that you're in-the-know, you're not. > If you speak to me to indicate that you're more in-the-know > than those who think they're in-the-know, you're not. > > When you speak to show you're doing a spiritual > practice, you're not. > > When you speak to be kind to > everyone, you're not. > > When you're speaking unkindly > to show you're superior, you're not. > > Just speak your truth however it is for you. > > I'll just be open > to your truth -- however it comes out! > > Simple. > > Love, > Dan > > > > /join > > > > > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, > perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside > back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than > the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of > Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is > Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality > of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, > spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to > a. > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > [This message contained attachments] ______________________ ______________________ Message: 17 Fri, 8 Feb 2002 07:10:36 +0200 "viorica weissman" <viorica Maharshi - Real asana Real asana Real asana is "being established" in the Self-Reality or the Source. Sit in your Self. Where can the Self go and sit? Everything sits in the Self. Find out the source of the "I" and sit there. Don't have the idea that the Self cannot be realized without the help of asanas, etc. They are not at all necessary. The chief thing is to enquire and reach the source of the ego. The details such as posture, etc. may distract the mind towards them or to the body. Sri Ramana Maharshi from www.sentient.org [This message contained attachments] ______________________ ______________________ Your use of is subject to This message and any attachment(s) is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) and may contain information that is PRIVILEGED and CONFIDENTIAL. If you are not the intended addressee(s), you are hereby notified that any use, distribution, disclosure or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please erase all copies of the message and its attachment(s) and notify the sender or Kanbay postmaster immediately. (PostMaster) Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender. 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Guest guest Posted February 8, 2002 Report Share Posted February 8, 2002 , Krishna Iyer <keiyer@k...> wrote: [snip] > What have been books that have impacted you the most. The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna and Kali's Child by Jeff Kripal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2002 Report Share Posted February 8, 2002 Great question! I've read a lot lot lot all my life, so there are several: THE EGO AND ITS OWN (Max Stirner), THE NATURE OF THOUGHT (Brand Blanshard), TREATISE CONCERNING THE PRINCIPLES OF KNOWLEDGE (George Berkeley, 1710), CONSCIOUSNESS SPEAKS (Balsekar), ATMA DARSHAN (Sri Atmananda), THE FUNDAMENTAL WISDOM OF THE MIDDLE WAY (MULAMADHYAMAKAKARIKA) Love, --Greg At 06:08 AM 2/8/02 +0000, jodyrrr wrote: >, Krishna Iyer <keiyer@k...> wrote: > >[snip] > >> What have been books that have impacted you the most. > >The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna and Kali's Child by Jeff Kripal. > > > > >/join > > > > > >All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. > > > >Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2002 Report Share Posted February 8, 2002 Hi David, forgot 'Hitch hikers' and ACIM. Yep those to. Maybe Johnathan Livingstone Seagull should get a plug also. smiles eric. The Adventure Of Self-Discovery - Stanislav Grof Parallel Universes - Fred Alan Wolf A Course In Miracles The Healing Brain - Robert Ornstein & David Sobel The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Universe Trilogy - Douglas Adams Hormonal Health - Michael Colgan Optimum Sports Nutrition - Michael Colgan The New Nutrition - Michael Colgan Krishnamurti's stuff The Art Of Dreaming - Carlos Castaneda How To Read ------------------------ Sponsor ---------------------~--> Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial Click Here! ---~-> /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2002 Report Share Posted February 8, 2002 Hello Greg, I was so surprised to find Stirner's book on your list. Though it has been a long time that I last read it, I remember it very well. My impression had been that the author's "solipsism" constitutes a glorification of the "I" that, to me at least, smacks more of Nietzsche than of Ramana. Brilliantly written, though. In the German original, the title, "Der Einzige und sein Eigentum", literally means, "The Only One [a person!] and That Which He Owns." As the translator seems to have taken such great liberty with that title, one wonders about the rest of the translation. If you care to tell I'd be interested to know in what way this very unusual, somewhat anarchic book has been important to you. Thanks and kindest regards, Michael > -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- > Von: Gregory Goode [goode] > Gesendet: Friday, February 08, 2002 16:07 > An: ; > Betreff: Re: Re: The best books you have read > > > Great question! I've read a lot lot lot all my life, so there > are several: > > THE EGO AND ITS OWN (Max Stirner), > THE NATURE OF THOUGHT (Brand Blanshard), > TREATISE CONCERNING THE PRINCIPLES OF KNOWLEDGE (George Berkeley, 1710), > CONSCIOUSNESS SPEAKS (Balsekar), > ATMA DARSHAN (Sri Atmananda), > THE FUNDAMENTAL WISDOM OF THE MIDDLE WAY (MULAMADHYAMAKAKARIKA) > > Love, > > --Greg > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2002 Report Share Posted February 8, 2002 The Adventure Of Self-Discovery - Stanislav Grof Parallel Universes - Fred Alan Wolf A Course In Miracles The Healing Brain - Robert Ornstein & David Sobel The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Universe Trilogy - Douglas Adams Hormonal Health - Michael Colgan Optimum Sports Nutrition - Michael Colgan The New Nutrition - Michael Colgan Krishnamurti's stuff The Art Of Dreaming - Carlos Castaneda How To Read Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2002 Report Share Posted February 8, 2002 Hi Michael, You are the only person I recall who ever heard of Max Stirner, not including a few academic colleagues! What Stirner's book did for me was to globally deconstruct the world of my youthful idealism. I had formed a very tight philosophy, which took years to build up, through my teens and early 20's. I saw the world as a systematic unity, where logic, metaphysics, ethics, political truths were totally coherent. But Stirner helped explode that to fragments. And I can tell you, once a person experiences one global deconstruction, the other kinds (Structuralism, Behaviorism, Advaita, etc.) are merely different flavors. It is thought that Nietzcshe read Stirner in school. Stirner said "God is dead" about 40 years before Nietzsche. Before reading Stirner's unique book in the early 70's, I was a true believer in the eternity of love, reason, and the rational nature of man. I truly and deeply believed that Aristotelian logic was the basis of the entire structure of the universe. I believed that mysticism and religion and emotion were harmful irratio and led to the worst horrors in the world. In short, I was an Objectivist, a Randian, a follower of Ayn Rand and Nathaniel Branden. I was married to a fellow Objectivist. We divorced, which according to Objectivism is never supposed to happen when both people value reason above all else. I was devastated, horrified, depressed, and alone. So I re-examined all the philosophies I had digested. I saw some logical flaws in Rand, inconsistent with her own premises. Later, from reading various texts on Libertarianism and political philosophy, I came across a reference to Stirner. I ordered and read the book and was amazed. Taking a few basic things for granted (e.g., a subjective center of experience), he deconstructed everything else in a way, as you know, has never been done before or since. The results of this deconstruction, the rippling effects, were no intellectual game. I really threw myself wholeheartedly into the whole enchilada. Stirnerism wasn't a process of acquiring new beliefs, but of beliefs being gleefully ridiculed and joyously left in the dust. It's like I was being deprogrammed to the cellular level. It didn't permit any other forms of intellectualized idealism to take root again in me! During grad school in Philosophy, about 12 years after I first read Stirner, I spent a year at the Universitaet zu Koeln studying him and other things. There were other chapters after that, but that's why I liked his book! Love, --Greg At 09:04 PM 2/8/02 +0100, MikeSuesserott wrote: >Hello Greg, > >I was so surprised to find Stirner's book on your list. Though it has been a >long time that I last read it, I remember it very well. My impression had >been that the author's "solipsism" constitutes a glorification of the "I" >that, to me at least, smacks more of Nietzsche than of Ramana. Brilliantly >written, though. > >In the German original, the title, "Der Einzige und sein Eigentum", >literally means, "The Only One [a person!] and That Which He Owns." As the >translator seems to have taken such great liberty with that title, one >wonders about the rest of the translation. > >If you care to tell I'd be interested to know in what way this very unusual, >somewhat anarchic book has been important to you. > >Thanks and kindest regards, > >Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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