"Am I the body?"

February 9, 2002

This incident happened during Sri Ramanas last illness.

"Once the doctors were about to cut some tissue from the tumor so that tests could be done.

When they were about to inject a local anaesthetic to dull the pain, Bhagavan refused and told

the doctors to simply cut and take what they wanted.

The doctors protested, explaining to Bhagavan that the pain would be severe without the amaesthetic.

Bhagavan again refused and told them to just do it.

They cut into the tumor and Bhagavan winced in pain.

The doctors said:

'Bhagavan, we told you it would be painful.'

Bhagavan replied:

'Yes, the body experienced pain. But am I the body?'"

(Balarama Reddy: My Reminiscences, p. 106)

February 9, 2002

-

It was a good book, getting to know the very young K. Funny how Annie Besant

and the whole group thought he was being prepared thru this to be

their next world leader, and actaully he ended up leaving the

Theosophical Society because of what he learned.

Hi Gloria,

Two things : I love all your Hafiz postings, and have forwarded many

of them onto another list. Many there have expressed their delight in

them - thank you!

With respect, I would like to offer a differing opinion regarding K. I

strongly believe that he was indeed being groomed not as a "world

leader" but rather as a 'vehicle' for the world teacher (Maitreya)who

did overshadow him on several occasions

In 1945 Maitreya announced that he would instead come in person - when

certain conditions were met by humanity.

Blessings

Sai

February 9, 2002

This story reminds me of the time I had to have root canal work

on a molar, and the dentist couldn't kill the pain. I looked out

his back window and saw a glorious big tree, and it was full of little

deva life. I didn't see them with my eyes, but I felt them,

somehow saw them there. They said, "Come out to us!"

And I was out in the tree with all the little devas. I was

vaguely aware of the body back in the chair, and pain, the tears

running down the cheeks, but I wasn't there. I felt badly to let

others take the pain for me, but they said, "We can handle it

better." So I stayed until it was over. I had to go

back three more times, and the same thing happened every time.

This

incident happened during Sri Ramanas last illness.

"Once

the doctors were about to cut some tissue from the tumor so that tests

could be done.

When they

were about to inject a local anaesthetic to dull the pain, Bhagavan

refused and told

the doctors

to simply cut and take what they wanted.

The doctors

protested, explaining to Bhagavan that the pain would be severe

without the amaesthetic.

Bhagavan

again refused and told them to just do it.

They cut

into the tumor and Bhagavan winced in pain.

The doctors

said:

'Bhagavan,

we told you it would be painful.'

Bhagavan

replied:

'Yes, the

body experienced pain. But am I the body?'"

(Balarama

Reddy: My Reminiscences, p. 106)

February 9, 2002

Hi Sai,

With respect, I would like to offer a differing opinion regarding K. I

strongly believe that he was indeed being groomed not as a "world

leader" but rather as a 'vehicle' for the world teacher (Maitreya)who

did overshadow him on several occasions

In 1945 Maitreya announced that he would instead come in person - when

certain conditions were met by humanity.

I have wondered whether in this Age of Aquarius, Maitreya/Christ may

come/be coming in group formation, in more than one person...

Aquarius is the sign of group consciousness.

Hi Dharma

I believe you're right in saying that Aquarious is the sign of group consciousness

I also believe that indeed Maitreya/Christ is coming in group

formation - in the sense that he is bringing with him the rest of the

Masters. Not only that, but that he is here already! - working hard

behind the scenes, awaiting the most opportune moment for his outward

mission to begin.

If you're interested in reading about an American diplomats

experiences, i recommend this book to you

http://www.waynepeterson.com/index.html

Not since Atlantean times have the Masters been openly amongst

us...amazing times we're living in!

Blessings

Sai/join

All paths go

somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions,

and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back

into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than

the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of

Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It

is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the

Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of

Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self.

Welcome all to a.Your use of is subject

to the

February 10, 2002

Dharma, the Ramana posters and Friends,

In keeping with the theme of "Pain, yet Not the Body", I'm reminded

of Mary Luytens observations of Krishnamurti's Kundalini agonies in

Ojai, CA that preceded his enlightenment. She watched him go into

trances where he was led away by various beings, (The White

Brotherhood, Buddha etc.)or at least appeared to vacate the body, and

the body protested, or more accurately, an intelligence with limited

powers of verbal communication that seemed to be the intelligence of

the body, protested of the protracted anguish and anxiety of it's

condition.

During the same period, when K. could not leave his body, but had to

endure the same trance conditions in situ, K himself gave frequent

utterance to the same almost intolerable phenomena, and could later

give a simplified account of his process.

While his memories of his "astral travels" was frequently dimmed or

garbled, as I remember it when he reported back after being "away",

he would not report remembering suffering any pain, even though

his "body" protested or groaned the whole time he was gone.

If you want to check it out for yourselves, the book

is "Krishnamurti, the Years of Awakening" by Mary Luytens, and my

copy is a cheap Avon paperback.

yours in the bonds,

eric

, Dharma <deva@L...> wrote:

> This story reminds me of the time I had to have root canal work on

a

> molar, and the dentist couldn't kill the pain. I looked out his

back

> window and saw a glorious big tree, and it was full of little deva

> life. I didn't see them with my eyes, but I felt them, somehow saw

> them there. They said, "Come out to us!" And I was out in the

tree

> with all the little devas. I was vaguely aware of the body back in

> the chair, and pain, the tears running down the cheeks, but I

wasn't

> there. I felt badly to let others take the pain for me, but they

> said, "We can handle it better." So I stayed until it was over. I

> had to go back three more times, and the same thing happened every

> time.

>

> >This incident happened during Sri Ramanas last illness.

> >

> >"Once the doctors were about to cut some tissue from the tumor so

> >that tests could be done.

> >When they were about to inject a local anaesthetic to dull the

pain,

> >Bhagavan refused and told

> >the doctors to simply cut and take what they wanted.

> >The doctors protested, explaining to Bhagavan that the pain would

be

> >severe without the amaesthetic.

> >Bhagavan again refused and told them to just do it.

> >They cut into the tumor and Bhagavan winced in pain.

> >The doctors said:

> >'Bhagavan, we told you it would be painful.'

> >

> >Bhagavan replied:

> >'Yes, the body experienced pain. But am I the body?'"

> >

> >(Balarama Reddy: My Reminiscences, p. 106)

February 10, 2002

Hi Eric,

Ah, so someone else has read that book. At first, it seemed wierd that K.

might not remember either the physical pain, nor much of what

transpired in other realms when he was "away" from his body. How could it

be making any difference if he didn't have any consciousness of the process?

Then it dawned on me it was thru his willingness to undergo it all, that the real

transformation happened. He was so surrendered. We don't need to understand all

that happens.

It was a good book, getting to know the very young K. Funny how Annie Besant

and the whole group thought he was being prepared thru this to be

their next world leader, and actaully he ended up leaving the

Theosophical Society because of what he learned. You could really

feel the undeniable bravery in that move, as he was so purposefully

groomed by them and thus unprepared for any independent life.

Love,

Gloria

- eblack101

Sunday, February 10, 2002 4:07 PM

Re: "Am I the body?"

Dharma, the Ramana posters and Friends,In keeping with the theme of

"Pain, yet Not the Body", I'm reminded of Mary Luytens observations

of Krishnamurti's Kundalini agonies in Ojai, CA that preceded his

enlightenment. She watched him go into trances where he was led away

by various beings, (The White Brotherhood, Buddha etc.)or at least

appeared to vacate the body, and the body protested, or more

accurately, an intelligence with limited powers of verbal

communication that seemed to be the intelligence of the body,

protested of the protracted anguish and anxiety of it's

condition.During the same period, when K. could not leave his body,

but had to endure the same trance conditions in situ, K himself gave

frequent utterance to the same almost intolerable phenomena, and

could later give a simplified account of his process.While his

memories of his "astral travels" was frequently dimmed or garbled, as

I remember it when he reported back after being "away", he would not

report remembering suffering any pain, even though his "body"

protested or groaned the whole time he was gone.If you want to check

it out for yourselves, the book is "Krishnamurti, the Years of

Awakening" by Mary Luytens, and my copy is a cheap Avon

paperback.yours in the bonds,eric, Dharma

<deva@L...> wrote:> This story reminds me of the time I had to have

root canal work on a > molar, and the dentist couldn't kill the pain.

I looked out his back > window and saw a glorious big tree, and it

was full of little deva > life. I didn't see them with my eyes, but

I felt them, somehow saw > them there. They said, "Come out to us!"

And I was out in the tree > with all the little devas. I was vaguely

aware of the body back in > the chair, and pain, the tears running

down the cheeks, but I wasn't > there. I felt badly to let others

take the pain for me, but they > said, "We can handle it better." So

I stayed until it was over. I > had to go back three more times, and

the same thing happened every > time.> > >This incident happened

during Sri Ramanas last illness.> >> >"Once the doctors were about to

cut some tissue from the tumor so > >that tests could be done.> >When

they were about to inject a local anaesthetic to dull the pain, >

>Bhagavan refused and told> >the doctors to simply cut and take what

they wanted.> >The doctors protested, explaining to Bhagavan that the

pain would be > >severe without the amaesthetic.> >Bhagavan again

refused and told them to just do it.> >They cut into the tumor and

Bhagavan winced in pain.> >The doctors said:> >'Bhagavan, we told you

it would be painful.'> >> >Bhagavan replied:> >'Yes, the body

experienced pain. But am I the body?'"> >> >(Balarama Reddy: My

Reminiscences, p.

106)/join