Kundalini and Ramana?

[Guest guest]

Dear All,

I want to ask a question relating to Kundalini and Ramana.

As far as it is known Ramana never teached anything about Kundalini. I

can remember only one story when he instructed a man in Kundalini as

an exception.

Also his awakening seems to have nothing to do with the awakening of

Kundalini. There was a bodily experience also in his case which has

to do with the flow of energy (to the spiritual heart), but it seems

to have been of another kind.

Also I can't found in the recollections of his close devotees any

reports about the awakening of Kundalini though there are many

reports about energy experienced in his immediate presence. (The

stories are well known.)

And third also I for myself trying to follow the teachings of Ramana

have never had any such experience - with the flow of energy in the

heart-center yes, but not of this kind of K-energy. I never had come

in close contact with the subject until now, only here when I read the

reports and experiences of you.

 

Are there several possible ways which the energy takes in the process

of awakening? Why don't the teaching of Ramana lead to the experience

of K?

This is not only a theoretical question.

 

Gabriele

[Guest guest]

Gabriele Ebert wrote:

Dear

All,I want to ask a question

relating to Kundalini and Ramana.As

far as it is known Ramana never teached anything about Kundalini. I can

remember only one story when he instructed a man in Kundalini as an exception.Also

his awakening seems to have nothing to do with the awakening of Kundalini.

There was a bodily experience also in his case which has to do with the

flow of energy (to the spiritual heart), but it seems to have been of another

kind.Also I can't found

in the recollections of his close devotees any reports about the awakening

of Kundalini though there are many reports about energy experienced

in his immediate presence. (The stories are well known.)And

third also I for myself trying to follow the teachings of Ramana have never

had any such experience - with the flow of energy in the heart-center yes,

but not of this kind of K-energy. I never had come in close contact

with the subject until now, only here when I read the reports and experiences

of you. Are there

several possible ways which the energy takes in the process of awakening?

Why don't the teaching of Ramana lead to the experience of K?This

is not only a theoretical question. Gabriele

This is precisely the question I was

going to ask, thank you for putting it so much better

than I am capable!

Thank You

Mace

[Guest guest]

..5in">

-----Original

Message-----

Gabriele Ebert

[g.ebert (AT) gmx (DOT) de]

Saturday, February 23, 2002

4:03 AM

 

Kundalini and Ramana?

Dear

All,

windowtext">

I want

to ask a question relating to Kundalini and Ramana.

As far

as it is known Ramana never teached anything about Kundalini. I can remember

only one story when he instructed a man in Kundalini as an exception.

Also

his awakening seems to have nothing to do with the awakening of Kundalini.

There was a bodily experience also in his case which has to do with the flow of

energy (to the spiritual heart), but it seems to have been of another kind.

Also I

can't found in the recollections of his close devotees any reports about the

awakening of Kundalini though there are many reports about energy

experienced in his immediate presence. (The stories are well known.)

And

third also I for myself trying to follow the teachings of Ramana have never had

any such experience - with the flow of energy in the heart-center yes, but

not of this kind of K-energy. I never had come in close contact with the

subject until now, only here when I read the reports and experiences of you.

Are

there several possible ways which the energy takes in the process of

awakening? Why don't the teaching of Ramana lead to the experience of K?

This is

not only a theoretical question.

Gabriele

color:blue;font-weight:bold">Dear Gabriele,

color:blue;font-weight:bold">

color:blue;font-weight:bold">Sri Ramana did not explicitly emphasize

Kundalini. However, he stated that it is the same

power that works in whatever path one follows.

yes"> His words regarding Self-enquiry leading to the activation

of power are well known……something like…”A

yogi may have his special methods to

raise the Kundalini power, the one doing enquiry ends up doing the

same thing”….something

to that effect…..You can look it up in “Be As You Are”, a good summary of

conversations and talks.

color:blue;font-weight:bold">

color:blue;font-weight:bold">The arousal of the Kundalini Shakti does not

automatically lead to Self-Realization at all, but it can be a start.

It can also be dangerous without

preparation and guidance!

color:blue;font-weight:bold">

color:blue;font-weight:bold">One need not follow the Shakti path for

Self-Realization. However, if the

mind merges in Heart, the central power must get absorbed there as

well. In Nirvikalpa Samadhi, Mind,

Kundalini, body consciousness,

etc. merge in the Heart and Pure Self alone shines forward. The

conscious mind can be considered

one manifestation of the Shakti. Ultimately the Whole Mind and the Kundalini

Shakti are the same thing. Essentially

when we speak of the mixture of energy, consciousness, and patterns of movement

we speak of the Mind or Kundalini Shakti .

yes"> The manifestations differ due to differences in physical and

mental tendencies and makeup.

color:blue;font-weight:bold">

color:blue;font-weight:bold">Sri Ramana has said that, the one following the

Jnana path need not worry about charkas, kundalini,

yes"> etc. The one

following the yogic path ultimately must understand that the movement itself

(of mind and Shakti) becomes nonmovement after merging in the Heart.

That is when it is understood that

Shakti reveals Herself to be Pure Consciousness.

yes"> After being absorbed in the Heart, Shakti becomes the Heart.

Everything is Heart only. That is why Sri Ramana has said that

Shakti, Heart, Self, all mean the same thing.

yes"> It is a deep truth.

color:blue;font-weight:bold">

color:blue;font-weight:bold">Love to all

color:blue;font-weight:bold">Harsha

[Guest guest]

..5in">

 

Harsha wrote:

"Everything

is Heart only."

 

Thank You

 

Profound and yet remarkably simple!

Mace

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

..

[Guest guest]

On 2/23/02 at 10:03 AM Gabriele Ebert wrote:

Dear All,

I want to ask a question relating to Kundalini and Ramana.

As far as it is known Ramana never teached anything about Kundalini. I

can remember only one story when he instructed a man in Kundalini as

an exception.

 

Couldn't that be a matter of choice too? What has been recorded from Ramana's talks

surely doesn't consist of all answers given. Matters on K. can sound rather strange for

those, unfamiliar with it.

 

Also his awakening seems to have nothing to do with the awakening of

Kundalini. There was a bodily experience also in his case which has

to do with the flow of energy (to the spiritual heart), but it seems

to have been of another kind.

 

Isn't that indicative of the turmoil, K. related issues can cause?

Because, what is the reason, why a perfectly healthy mind-body

suddenly undergoes a transforming death-related experience?

Kundalini is but a term for incomprehensible but yet felt movements

of energy (and the often caused sensory phenomena).

 

Also I can't found in the recollections of his close devotees any

reports about the awakening of Kundalini though there are many

reports about energy experienced in his immediate presence. (The

stories are well known.)

And third also I for myself trying to follow the teachings of Ramana

have never had any such experience - with the flow of energy in the

heart-center yes, but not of this kind of K-energy. I never had come

in close contact with the subject until now, only here when I read the

reports and experiences of you.

 

The classical sequence is "Self-realization first, K. later" as also suggested in the Kathopanishad.

Apparently you didn't read some personal notes from Paul Brunton who

was in awe over his K. awakening

(mentioned as creeping ants over the back), because he was leading a

life of sensual pleasure which

is said to be non-conducive to that. So he was quite grateful.

 

Are there several possible ways which the energy takes in the process

of awakening? Why don't the teaching of Ramana lead to the experience

of K?

This is not only a theoretical question.

 

Gabriele

[Guest guest]

, "Harsha" wrote:

> Sri Ramana has said that, the one following the Jnana path need not

> worry about chakras, kundalini, etc.

 

Sri Ramana was a great reformer, as Shankara was.

 

The 'ancient path' of Jnani consisted of Viveka-Vairagya

(discrimination/dispassion). This path is poorly understood in

modern times and is rarely followed.

 

Viveka is discrimination between the 'real' and the 'unreal' and can

involve such inquiries as "Am I the body? Who am I?" etc.

 

Vairagya is an absolutely necessary component that is usually

neglected on modern paths. It involves unattachment, dispassion and

disinterest in 'the world'.

 

Vairagya encourages more viveka, and viveka encourages vairagya.

It's a kind of catalystic path in that each of these increases the

other. And both (especially vairagya) encourage surrender.

 

Very few 'modern' sages mention vairagya anymore, because

the "modern" householder won't have time for it, nor the absolute

dedication, "readiness to die for the truth" required (everyday

duties are considered more important). So it often morphs into

a "slow" devotional path.

 

As for the devotional paths, each may draw their own conclusions as

to the 'efficacy' of such a path. Seen here, suffering (longing for

the Beloved) will only increase, until willingness to die (surrender)

happens... then the fruit is ripe. A "slow path" indeed... the more

suffering & longing, the "slower" it 'becomes'!

 

Namaste,

 

Tim

[Guest guest]

P.S... a discourse by Svami Sivananda on vairagya:

 

http://www.sivanandadlshq.org/discourse/aug2001.htm

 

Namaste,

 

Tim

[Guest guest]

Somehow, a part of the message wasn't sent (computer here a bit unstable) so a retry:

 

Are there several possible ways which the energy takes in the process

of awakening? Why don't the teaching of Ramana lead to the experience

of K?

This is not only a theoretical question.

 

Gabriele

 

At NDS, a few times i referred to 'mere' K. awakening as a ride in an astral Disneyland.

That may sound funny but reflects the possible consequences: attached to the more subtle

pleasures of a less dense material realm.

The only guarantee for this not to happen is: Self-realization first.

Energy can take many ways in awakening but that is what it seems:

books like the NT or Padma Sambhava's biography show a few

road marks, or 'stations' the energy does have to pass, giving rise to

side-effects and 'audio-visual welcomes' that when *known*, always are recognized,

no matter how (veiled) described. Lalla and even the Buddha left such road marks too.

Sankara and Ramana were no exception: it shows in what often is referred

to as the "devotional phase', like Ramana's work on Arunachala.

Self-realization is a matter of de-conditioning as indicated by neti-neti:

it has to be lived up to.

What can follow is love for Love, the devotional/compassionate/mystical phase of life.

This can burn out the potential for all feelings of separation/otherness/'me & you'

That is what 'nonduality' once was about

 

Jan

[Guest guest]

Thank you for all your insightful answers. The most important hint for

me was your comment, Harsha, that the whole Mind and Kundalini Shakti

are ultimately the same thing. This gives a wider understanding of

K. The mixtures of energy are indeed not easily understandable and

may differ in the way of expression. The most consoling with Ramana

is, that he says, everything merge in the Heart.

Gabriele

[Guest guest]

I have read with interest the various thoughts on K and the teachings

of Ramana and would like to share mine.

Some time ago I got interested in the teachings of Sai Baba who has

rarely mentioned Kundalini however I felt that I was guided to go to

the late Guruji (Dr Goels) in India and received Shaktipat from him.

I was shown letters that he received from Baba encouraging him in his

work of awakening K in those who came to him.

Guruji taught that self enquiry as advocated by Ramana was a very

important part of becoming realized and that all the great masters

had awakened this way. He said that God lived in the heart and if I

remember correctly implied that the maleShiva and female Shakti

aspect of God would at sometime after K awakened meet at the third

eye which was "our" original residence and that is where the kingdom

of heaven lies not in the mind. At some point in this process the ego

dissolves completely and the crown chakra and third eye chakra become

as one.

Guriji said that once K was awakened you had been accepted by God and

were making your way home in the taxi driven by Shakti Kundalini you

would be fully awakened in this or your next life.

He also as I remember stated that in order to become realized

regardless of the path if even only in the final moments K had to

awaken and arise. Realization could not be complete with out this.

He documented his own awakening fully in two books which I read sometime back.

 

In the UK there is The Kundalini Foundation for Self Realization which

was started through his teachings and has currently about 400 members

throughout the world. Not on a web or e mail but working away

quietly. Since one of the founder members June died recent leaving

Desmond to finish her book. I am reluctant to over load him with

enquiries by giving the address here.

 

I now find that the most "practical" teaching that I am drawn to is

from "The Power of Now" Eckhart Tolles book. Who states that

suffering is no longer necessary if we voluntarily step in to the new

consciousness that is coming through. Eckhart also says (my words) to

let go of all concepts and that you are already complete so live in

the Now.

 

With love & respect

Chris

[Guest guest]

..5in">

-----Original

Message-----

AnneChris

[am009a8716 (AT) blueyonder (DOT) co.uk]

Sunday, February 24, 2002

5:11 AM

Re:

Kundalini and Ramana?

I have

read with interest the various thoughts on K and the teachings of Ramana and

would like to share mine.

Some

time ago I got interested in the teachings of Sai Baba who has rarely mentioned

Kundalini however I felt that I was guided to go to the late Guruji (Dr

Goels) in India and received Shaktipat from him. I was shown letters that he

received from Baba encouraging him in his work of awakening K in those

who came to him.

mso-color-alt:windowtext">

Guruji

taught that self enquiry as advocated by Ramana was a very important part of

becoming realized and that all the great masters had awakened this way. He said

that God lived in the heart and if I remember correctly implied that the

maleShiva and female Shakti aspect of God would at sometime after K

awakened meet at the third eye which was "our" original residence and

that is where the kingdom of heaven lies not in the mind. At some point in this

process the ego dissolves completely and the crown chakra and third eye chakra

become as one.

mso-color-alt:windowtext">

Guriji

said that once K was awakened you had been accepted by God and were making your

way home in the taxi driven by Shakti Kundalini you would be fully awakened in

this or your next life.

mso-color-alt:windowtext">

He also

as I remember stated that in order to become realized regardless of the path if

even only in the final moments K had to awaken and arise. Realization could not

be complete with out this.

He

documented his own awakening fully in two books which I read sometime back.

In the

UK there is The Kundalini Foundation for Self Realization which was started

through his teachings and has currently about 400 members throughout the world.

Not on a web or e mail but working away quietly. Since one of the founder

members June died recent leaving Desmond to finish her book. I am reluctant to

over load him with enquiries by giving the address here.

I now

find that the most "practical" teaching that I am drawn to is from

"The Power of Now" Eckhart Tolles book. Who states that suffering is

no longer necessary if we voluntarily step in to the new consciousness

that is coming through. Eckhart also says (my words) to let go of all

concepts and that you are already complete so live in the Now.

With

love & respect

mso-color-alt:windowtext">

Chris

color:navy;font-weight:bold">

color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext;font-weight:bold">

mso-ascii-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-hansi-font-family:"Times New Roman";

mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";font-weight:bold">That is what we say

here too Chris.

mso-ascii-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-hansi-font-family:"Times New Roman";

mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";font-weight:bold">

mso-ascii-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-hansi-font-family:"Times New Roman";

mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";font-weight:bold">Love

mso-ascii-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-hansi-font-family:"Times New Roman";

mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";font-weight:bold">Harsha