Fw: "If you give up all desires what remains is only moksha"

[Guest guest]

- Gabriele Ebert

RamanaMaharshi

Wednesday, February 27, 2002 11:00 PM

"If you give up all desires what remains is only moksha"

"Once, a lady devotee, with great eagerness in her face and without hesitation,

approached the sofa of Bhagavan and asked:

"Swami, I have only one desire. May I tell you what it is?"

"Yes", said Bhagavan, "what do you want?"

"I want moksha (deliverance)," she said.

"Oh, is that so?" remarked Bhagavan.

"Yes, Swamiji! I do not want anything else. It is enough if you give me moksha."

She was bold enough to add:

"It will not do if you say that you will give it some time later. You must give it to me

here and now."

Bhagavan smiled.

She said: "I must be going. Will you give it now?"

Bhagavan nodded.

As soon as she left the Hall, Bhagavan burst out laughing.

Subbalakshmamma in the Hall took up the thread and said:

"We have also come here only for moksha. We do not want anything.

It is enough if you will give us moksha."

On the subject of moksha Bhagavan would typically say:

"What is moksha? Who attains it? Unless there is bondage, how can there be moksha?

Who has that bondage? Who really are you?"

But on that occasion Bhagavan said serenely:

"If you give up all the desires that you have, what remains is only moksha.

What is there for others to give you?

Is not craving for moksha itself a desire?

Give up that too. It is always there with you.

What is is only That."

(V. Ganesan: Purushottama Ramana, p. (42)

[Guest guest]

On 2/27/02 at 11:02 PM Gabriele Ebert wrote:

- Gabriele Ebert

RamanaMaharshi

Wednesday, February 27, 2002 11:00 PM

"If you give up all desires what remains is only moksha"

"Once, a lady devotee, with great eagerness in her face and without hesitation,

approached the sofa of Bhagavan and asked:

"Swami, I have only one desire. May I tell you what it is?"

"Yes", said Bhagavan, "what do you want?"

"I want moksha (deliverance)," she said.

"Oh, is that so?" remarked Bhagavan.

"Yes, Swamiji! I do not want anything else. It is enough if you give me moksha."

She was bold enough to add:

"It will not do if you say that you will give it some time later. You must give it to me

here and now."

Bhagavan smiled.

She said: "I must be going. Will you give it now?"

Bhagavan nodded.

As soon as she left the Hall, Bhagavan burst out laughing.

Subbalakshmamma in the Hall took up the thread and said:

"We have also come here only for moksha. We do not want anything.

It is enough if you will give us moksha."

On the subject of moksha Bhagavan would typically say:

"What is moksha? Who attains it? Unless there is bondage, how can there be moksha?

Who has that bondage? Who really are you?"

But on that occasion Bhagavan said serenely:

"If you give up all the desires that you have, what remains is only moksha.

What is there for others to give you?

Is not craving for moksha itself a desire?

Give up that too. It is always there with you.

What is is only That."

(V. Ganesan: Purushottama Ramana, p. (42)

There are several stories, illustrating the impossibility to give up all desires:

like on homeless yogis, having renounced everything, yet using a brick for a pillow.

Others are on yogis, with a desire to eat before going into a long

samadhi and returning

from it, with the fist thought: "a meal!!"

The point,

1. how to recognize desire?

2. prolonged samadhi only temporarily suspends desires.

Giving up every desire obviously isn't easy.

When completely disillusioned with what life has to offer, no desire remains, when

the desire to leave life leaves too.

Likewise, when knowing "Peace", desires can become a nuisance:

then, ignoring them is easy.

Hence, the term 'nirvana' once was coined to indicate that the potential

to desire, no longer exists. All humans are born with such a (tenacious)

potential to desire, hence it won't be a surprise to understand it won't "just" leave

by desiring so

Jan

[Guest guest]

Hi Jan,

 

, "jb" <janb@a...> wrote:

> Giving up every desire obviously isn't easy.

> When completely disillusioned with what life has to offer, no

> desire remains, when the desire to leave life leaves too.

> Likewise, when knowing "Peace", desires can become a nuisance:

> then, ignoring them is easy.

 

i would go further, to say that desires are always a nuisance. The

desire to leave life still arises 'here' from time to time... the

mind is the burden, not the body. Life has nothing to offer at all,

so why the burden of "automatic thinking?" Some sort of action is

necessary while the body lives, whether mental or physical (unless

sitting in a chair 24/7 gazing at the wall) -- perhaps i will take up

hiking or bicycling this summer :-)

> Hence, the term 'nirvana' once was coined to indicate that the

> potential to desire, no longer exists. All humans are born with

> such a (tenacious) potential to desire, hence it won't be a

> surprise to understand it won't "just" leave by desiring so

 

Agreed, it doesn't "just evaporate" -- apperception or no

apperception.

 

Tim

[Guest guest]

On 2/28/02 at 10:33 PM fewtch wrote:

 

ºHi Jan,

º

º, "jb" <janb@a...> wrote:

º> Giving up every desire obviously isn't easy.

º> When completely disillusioned with what life has to offer, no

º> desire remains, when the desire to leave life leaves too.

º> Likewise, when knowing "Peace", desires can become a nuisance:

º> then, ignoring them is easy.

º

ºi would go further, to say that desires are always a nuisance. The

ºdesire to leave life still arises 'here' from time to time... the

ºmind is the burden, not the body. Life has nothing to offer at all,

ºso why the burden of "automatic thinking?" Some sort of action is

ºnecessary while the body lives, whether mental or physical (unless

ºsitting in a chair 24/7 gazing at the wall) -- perhaps i will take up

ºhiking or bicycling this summer :-)

 

When at the job, i used to listen to airborne radio and it was always

possible to predict the skies above big Indian cities: smoke!

Which means, breathing there, even 12 years ago, must have been pretty hard.

Seemingly that kindles a desire for clean air to breathe, which isn't a desire

because no creature is equipped with the hardware to enjoy breathing polluted

air.

Likewise, with food: every body is equipped with a mechanism to detect the

proper food hence the desire for pure, unprocessed natural food isn't a desire.

 

Another matter is wanting an ice cream, wanting to skip breakfast,

wanting to go by car for just a few miles: those desires indicate

disease/improper functioning. The same with "entertainment only"

movies and TV series: when one day after viewing, unable to make

a summary, that shows its value:)

 

Still another matter is indicated by the Upanishads: it wasn't unusual

then to be 'initiated' in the knowledge of Atman and Brahman by a parent.

That already shows, family life once was natural too, not an impediment

or even a 'slow-down' as compared to the solitary life of a hermit.

º

º> Hence, the term 'nirvana' once was coined to indicate that the

º> potential to desire, no longer exists. All humans are born with

º> such a (tenacious) potential to desire, hence it won't be a

º> surprise to understand it won't "just" leave by desiring so

º

ºAgreed, it doesn't "just evaporate" -- apperception or no

ºapperception.

º

ºTim

 

Apperception can be a foundation:

despite being still able to feel fear, guilt, shame, embarrassment etc. these

can be withstood,

in a sense as not to react, but to respond sensibly. Such behavior opens the

doors to Love

and once opened, life-energy flows effortlessly.

Apperception could be called the only 'true' tool regarding sensibility because

of the ability

to both discriminate (buddhi) and apply in an unselfish manner.

Hence, that has to be the basis for any self-sustaining intelligent species

but when not, it will self-destroy.

 

Jan