Guest guest Posted March 6, 2002 Report Share Posted March 6, 2002 Memory and Self-Realization In many circles, the absence of memory is considered equivalent to Self-Realization. We see that claim made by neo-nondualists in different variations. Absence of memory, in fact, can occur in many states. People get drunk and become quite forgetful of who they are and cannot remember things. Just because drinking alcohol on a long term basis undermines the memory, it need not be viewed as a path to Self-Realization. Absence of memory, or even undermining of memory as a construct through logic (logic, which necessarily relies on memory as an assumption) is not Self-Realization. Some people also lose memory due to accidents, illness, or disease. It can lead to much suffering. We do not refer to that as Self-Realization. Memory can temporarily disappear in either sleep or Nirvikalpa Samadhi. Even though memory is absent, the two states are not considered equivalent as in one, unconsciousness pervades, and in the other, there is fullness of pure consciousness. In only one type of absence of memory (Nirvikalpa Samadhi) can it be said that the Self has been Revealed or Recognized. In Sahaj Samadhi, the question of memory existing or not existing is completely moot. While the absence of memory may be correlated with Alzheimer's, it has little to do with Self-Realization. Love to all Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2002 Report Share Posted March 7, 2002 Dear Harsha -- I would like to share with you my view here. My memory functions relatively well, and logic of a sort, too. So, what I'm saying doesn't have anything to do promotion of memory impairment as a wonderful thing. I've found that clarity about the nature of memory opens a vista. Clarity about memory involves knowing its limits, and the vista now opens which can't be touched by memory. When I say untouched by memory, I mean that there is no sense whatsoever of something "past" being involved. There is no separation between past and present occurring, although memory requires the assumption of such a separation to function. So, memory operates, yet is known as illusory simultaneously. There is nothing inappropriate about memory functioning as it does. It just doesn't yield reality, register reality, nor bring reality forward into "the present." Although not truly expressible in words, for the sake of communicating, I would say reality is timeless. It doesn't move from past through present to future, but includes all time simultaneously, without separation of any apparent event from itself. Memory activity doesn't fool me, it just appropriately occurs, then dissolves. If someone asks me what the illusion of memory is (and this question isn't asked of me very frequently) I respond something along these lines: Memory involves an implied movement of experience becoming less "now" as it fades into memory images, and a movement in which memory can be applied in the present. In reality, no such movement occurs. Reality never becomes less now, and never is applied to something. Reality isn't derived from memory, and it isn't recalled, isn't experientially registered, nor brought forward as a remembered experience. Yet reality isn't opposed to memory. It allows memory, includes the potential for memory to be expressed. Memory is a way that images can be formulated, and an apparent life conferred to individuals, groups, cultures, and experiential worlds. I know memory for what it is. I am not in the contents of memory, but that doesn't mean memory can't do what it does. Memory's not an impairment to knowing reality as is, nor is it a help. All to love, Dan , "Harsha" wrote: > Memory and Self-Realization > In many circles, the absence of memory is considered equivalent to > Self-Realization. We see that claim made by neo-nondualists in different > variations. Absence of memory, in fact, can occur in many states. > People get drunk and become quite forgetful of who they are and cannot > remember things. Just because drinking alcohol on a long term basis > undermines the memory, it need not be viewed as a path to Self-Realization. > Absence of memory, or even undermining of memory as a construct through > logic (logic, which necessarily relies on memory as an assumption) is not > Self-Realization. > Some people also lose memory due to accidents, illness, or disease. It can > lead to much suffering. We do not refer to that as Self-Realization. > Memory can temporarily disappear in either sleep or Nirvikalpa Samadhi. Even > though memory is absent, the two states are not considered equivalent as in > one, unconsciousness pervades, and in the other, there is fullness of pure > consciousness. In only one type of absence of memory (Nirvikalpa Samadhi) > can it be said that the Self has been Revealed or Recognized. > In Sahaj Samadhi, the question of memory existing or not existing is > completely moot. > While the absence of memory may be correlated with Alzheimer's, it has > little to do with Self-Realization. > Love to all > Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2002 Report Share Posted March 7, 2002 On 3/7/02 at 11:42 AM Harvey Schneider wrote: Harsha wrote: "Memory can disappear in either sleep or Nirvikalpa Samadhi." I have heard that in sleep the sense of separateness disappears into the absolute, which, according to this understanding, accounts for the refreshment and renewal we experience on awakening from sleep. Question: What is the difference between sleep and Nirvikalpa Samadhi. During sleep, all cognition stops, the mind shuts down which can be observed too, at the risk of being catapulted to full awareness from the 'between awake and sleeping'. Whereas during Nirvikalpa Samadhi, functioning of mind and senses is suspended while the potential to function fully remains, contrary to sleep where that potential is switched off. I have never had any memory of consciousness during sleep although someone, probably on some list or other, reported training himself to be aware during sleep. I'm not sure whether that is possible. Does anyone have any knowledge or experience that would bear on this point? In Tibetan Buddhism some can be found on dream yoga. After a successful practice, there is experience with lucid dreams, and also that awareness continues. The main advantage of such practice is to be aware in dreams as to 'who you are'. Read some on Gaudapa who concluded there isn't a fundamental difference between dreaming and waking: after a successful practice of dream yoga you'll agree. Having lend the only book on the subject i had, i can't give the title. Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2002 Report Share Posted March 7, 2002 Wow Dan. The left hemisphere of your brain must be huge. Love David (intricate) , "dan330033" <dan330033> wrote: > Dear Harsha -- > > I would like to share with you my view here. > > My memory functions relatively well, and logic > of a sort, too. So, what I'm saying doesn't > have anything to do promotion of memory impairment > as a wonderful thing. > > I've found that clarity about the nature of memory > opens a vista. Clarity about memory involves > knowing its limits, and the vista now opens which > can't be touched by memory. > > When I say untouched by memory, I mean that there > is no sense whatsoever of something "past" being > involved. There is no separation between past > and present occurring, although memory requires > the assumption of such a separation to function. > > So, memory operates, yet is known as illusory simultaneously. > There is nothing inappropriate about memory functioning > as it does. It just doesn't yield reality, register > reality, nor bring reality forward into "the present." > > Although not truly expressible in words, for the > sake of communicating, I would > say reality is timeless. It doesn't move from past > through present to future, but includes > all time simultaneously, without separation > of any apparent event from itself. > > Memory activity doesn't fool me, it just > appropriately occurs, then dissolves. > > If someone asks me what the illusion of memory is > (and this question isn't asked of me very frequently) > I respond something along these lines: > Memory involves an implied movement of experience > becoming less "now" as it fades into memory images, > and a movement in which memory can be applied > in the present. > > In reality, no such movement occurs. > > Reality never becomes less now, and never is applied > to something. > > Reality isn't derived from memory, and it > isn't recalled, isn't experientially registered, nor brought > forward as a remembered experience. > > Yet reality isn't opposed to memory. It allows memory, > includes the potential for memory to be expressed. > Memory is a way that images can be formulated, > and an apparent life conferred to individuals, > groups, cultures, and experiential worlds. > > I know memory for what it is. > > I am not in the contents of memory, but > that doesn't mean memory can't do what it does. > > Memory's not an impairment to knowing reality as is, > nor is it a help. > > All to love, > Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2002 Report Share Posted March 7, 2002 , "Harvey Schneider" <harvey_s@h...> wrote: > Question: What is the difference between sleep and Nirvikalpa > Samadhi. > > I have never had any memory of consciousness during sleep although > someone, probably on some list or other, reported training himself > to be aware during sleep. I'm not sure whether that is possible. > Does anyone have any knowledge or experience that would bear on this > point? Hi Harvey, I lucid dream regularly. I don't recall the percentage of folks who do, but I think it's around a third. I did not train for it. It has happened to me since being a young boy. Though over time, dealing with the experience becomes refined. (like motor-coordination) Regular lucid dreaming is when the observer is not identified with anything concrete but not so all-encompasing as Nirvikalpa Samadhi. A regular lucid dream can, however, lead to NS. I am aware of folks increasing the likelihood of lucid dreaming through techiniques employed by the lucicidity institute. http://www.lucidity.com/ As to the possibility of lucid dreaming even occuring it has been scientifically substansiated by the Lucidity Institute for those who have never experienced it. I can also add that none of the samadhis, (Nirvikalpa included) were the result of my conscious intending. Blessings, David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2002 Report Share Posted March 8, 2002 , "david bozzi" <david.bozzi@n...> wrote: > Wow Dan. > The left hemisphere > of your brain > must be huge. > > Love David > (intricate) Yes, David, it is rather. It has lots of lovely shades of pink, gray and slightly purplish colors, too. I enjoy its pulsations. Love Dan (interwoven) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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