Guest guest Posted March 19, 2002 Report Share Posted March 19, 2002 Hi Andrew, you wrote: > God and person are two sides of the same coin. > If one exists the other must. > If. Andrew, the scriptures say otherwise. There are countless references in the Vedas that refer to Brahman (God, the Absolute, the Self) as the Dreamer, and to the world (including persons) as the dreamed. The Dreamer exists independent of and beyond His dreams, but the dreams exist only insofar as they are dreamed by the Dreamer. To put it another way, the Dreamer's existence does not necessitate dreams, but the converse is not true. In another frequently-used scriptural illustration God is likened to the ocean, and human beings (all creation, actually) to the waves. The ocean exists independent of any waves, but its waves cannot exist without the ocean. I have always found this illustration very beautiful and comforting. And it seems to be more real, too, than we may be inclined to think, as many of the saints and sages speak about their identity with all created things and beyond (the ocean!), including all bodies. Paramahansa Yogananda once said that sometimes he had to make an extra effort to remember which body he was supposed to keep moving. One of Sri Ramana Maharshi's devotees, an Indian university professor, told a similar story. One day after meditating with Sri Ramana, he saw himself as existing in many people; he noted with surprise that he did not feel any special predilection towards his own body. If anyone can remember where to find that story, it would be great to have a repost. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2002 Report Share Posted March 19, 2002 MikeSuesserott wrote: > > Hi Andrew, > > you wrote: > > God and person are two sides of the same coin. > > If one exists the other must. > > If. > > Andrew, the scriptures say otherwise. > > There are countless references in the Vedas that refer to Brahman (God, the > Absolute, the Self) as the Dreamer, and to the world (including persons) as > the dreamed. The Dreamer exists independent of and beyond His dreams, but > the dreams exist only insofar as they are dreamed by the Dreamer. To put it > another way, the Dreamer's existence does not necessitate dreams, but the > converse is not true. > > In another frequently-used scriptural illustration God is likened to the > ocean, and human beings (all creation, actually) to the waves. The ocean > exists independent of any waves, but its waves cannot exist without the > ocean. > > I have always found this illustration very beautiful and comforting. And it > seems to be more real, too, than we may be inclined to think, as many of the > saints and sages speak about their identity with all created things and > beyond (the ocean!), including all bodies. Paramahansa Yogananda once said > that sometimes he had to make an extra effort to remember which body he was > supposed to keep moving. > > One of Sri Ramana Maharshi's devotees, an Indian university professor, told > a similar story. One day after meditating with Sri Ramana, he saw himself as > existing in many people; he noted with surprise that he did not feel any > special predilection towards his own body. If anyone can remember where to > find that story, it would be great to have a repost. > > Michael > Michael, I don't want to interfere with your faith. Long ago, after my mother died, when I was sixteen, I spent some weeks alone, demanding something. One morning I woke and saw myself in the eyes of everyone I met. For a long time, that revelation was unbearable. We all have experiences, there are so many in every lifetime and there are so many scriptures, biblical, vedic, buddhist... Particular experiences like particular scriptures are grabbed onto, imbued with meaning. Faith is fragile. When it gets broken, do you turn to another faith or live with that broken faith? In the end, I live with the broken faith. There is nowhere else I can stand. A choice had to be made, between comfort and freedom. A shattered faith is far stronger than a whole one. Excuse me if I'm making no sense at all. andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2002 Report Share Posted March 19, 2002 andrew macnab [a.macnab] Tuesday, March 19, 2002 6:53 PM Re: God and Persons (was: Sigh...) Michael, I don't want to interfere with your faith. Long ago, after my mother died, when I was sixteen, I spent some weeks alone, demanding something. One morning I woke and saw myself in the eyes of everyone I met. For a long time, that revelation was unbearable. We all have experiences, there are so many in every lifetime and there are so many scriptures, biblical, vedic, buddhist... Particular experiences like particular scriptures are grabbed onto, imbued with meaning. Faith is fragile. When it gets broken, do you turn to another faith or live with that broken faith? In the end, I live with the broken faith. There is nowhere else I can stand. A choice had to be made, between comfort and freedom. A shattered faith is far stronger than a whole one. Excuse me if I'm making no sense at all. andrew ********************************** What you said is really beautiful Andrew. Really beautiful. I was about to withdraw the claims I made about reversing menopause in my third century best seller, "The Banana Principle." But I just can't. I don't give a hoot what the modern day science says. The Banana Principles are as alive and fresh today as they were 2000 years ago. Lots of love brother Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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