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God and Persons (was: Sigh...)

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Dear Andrew,

 

neither do I want to interfere with your shattered faith. :-)

Though I would ask you this question -

why not give

the universe another chance?

 

In any case, we can always wish each other well, can't we?

 

Warmly,

 

Michael

 

> -----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----

> Von: andrew macnab [a.macnab]

> Gesendet: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 00:53

> An:

> Betreff: Re: God and Persons (was: Sigh...)

>

>

> MikeSuesserott wrote:

> >

> > Hi Andrew,

> >

> > you wrote:

> > > God and person are two sides of the same coin.

> > > If one exists the other must.

> > > If.

> >

> > Andrew, the scriptures say otherwise.

> >

> > There are countless references in the Vedas that refer to

> Brahman (God, the

> > Absolute, the Self) as the Dreamer, and to the world

> (including persons) as

> > the dreamed. The Dreamer exists independent of and beyond His

> dreams, but

> > the dreams exist only insofar as they are dreamed by the

> Dreamer. To put it

> > another way, the Dreamer's existence does not necessitate

> dreams, but the

> > converse is not true.

> >

> > In another frequently-used scriptural illustration God is likened to the

> > ocean, and human beings (all creation, actually) to the waves. The ocean

> > exists independent of any waves, but its waves cannot exist without the

> > ocean.

> >

> > I have always found this illustration very beautiful and

> comforting. And it

> > seems to be more real, too, than we may be inclined to think,

> as many of the

> > saints and sages speak about their identity with all created things and

> > beyond (the ocean!), including all bodies. Paramahansa

> Yogananda once said

> > that sometimes he had to make an extra effort to remember which

> body he was

> > supposed to keep moving.

> >

> > One of Sri Ramana Maharshi's devotees, an Indian university

> professor, told

> > a similar story. One day after meditating with Sri Ramana, he

> saw himself as

> > existing in many people; he noted with surprise that he did not feel any

> > special predilection towards his own body. If anyone can

> remember where to

> > find that story, it would be great to have a repost.

> >

> > Michael

> >

>

>

> Michael,

>

> I don't want to interfere with your faith.

>

> Long ago, after my mother died, when I was sixteen,

> I spent some weeks alone, demanding something.

> One morning I woke and saw myself in the eyes of everyone I met.

> For a long time, that revelation was unbearable.

>

> We all have experiences,

> there are so many in every lifetime

> and there are so many scriptures,

> biblical, vedic, buddhist...

> Particular experiences like particular scriptures

> are grabbed onto, imbued with meaning.

>

> Faith is fragile.

> When it gets broken,

> do you turn to another faith

> or live with that

> broken faith?

>

> In the end, I live with the broken faith.

> There is nowhere else I can stand.

> A choice had to be made, between comfort and freedom.

>

> A shattered faith is

> far stronger than a whole one.

>

> Excuse me if I'm making no sense at all.

>

> andrew

>

>

> /join

>

>

>

>

>

> All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places,

> sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and

> exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves

> rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from

> Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come

> and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart

> Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A

> true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge,

> spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to

> a.

>

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

>

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Dear Michael,

 

There's a working relationship

and that's enough.

 

And yes we can, and I do, and am glad to know that you do too.

 

andrew

 

 

 

 

 

 

MikeSuesserott wrote:

>

> Dear Andrew,

>

> neither do I want to interfere with your shattered faith. :-)

> Though I would ask you this question -

> why not give

> the universe another chance?

>

> In any case, we can always wish each other well, can't we?

>

> Warmly,

>

> Michael

>

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