Guest guest Posted April 14, 2002 Report Share Posted April 14, 2002 Like hate and war Love is to the death but it is also beyond it. The inability to distinguish between the uselessness of the former and the necessity of the latter may be the single greatest tragedy of the human condition. .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2002 Report Share Posted April 14, 2002 On 4/14/02 at 5:19 PM viorica_weissman wrote: [...]º º yes , Jan , appication indeed. º Love in real life battle fields. º That reminds me the Bhagavad Gita. º What we are talking about - turned º in real life in any circumstances. º That is the real challenge. º º Thank you for answering, º º vicki. º What the Bhagavad Gita doesn't mention is the experiential knowledge, that sentient life is loved unconditionally. This fundamental facet is hidden deeply... How else could life continue, even when the outlook on it is dark? Reflect on that as to make it a 'live' presence and a different mode of action will 'open up': Even if sentient life could be labeled "a bag of pain" yet is loved dearly and unconditionally. Acting from this knowledge is what makes up "consistency". º º> Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2002 Report Share Posted April 14, 2002 On 4/15/02 at 1:07 AM viorica_weissman wrote: ºdear Jan , º what do you mean by this love for sentient life loved so dearly and º unconditionally ? º º Is it one's love for life , for living ? Sentience is love itself - tasted "best", undefiled by a sense of "I". Hence it will last as long as the potential to feel remains - and as a rule, that is the mind-body's allotted lifespan. º Because if one loves life too much that is an obstacle º that has to be given up. º The unconditional love is of the one whose ego vanished. º The conditional love ends up in pain and frustration. Since even scientifically, "ego" (here defined as the sense of doership) doesn't exist, why would i give any attention to a fata morgana perceived by some mind-bodies? º º Bhagavad Gita mentions love of God that ultimately dissolves º one's limited self . And with it unconditional love cames. Krishna doesn't mention the possibility of a mind-body without the potential to feel pain (hence pleasure as well). The Buddha shortly mentioned that possibility, from his experience of it. From that perspective, Love also is pain because the undifferentiated somehow, seemingly gets differentiated as "sentient life". Hence unconditional love could be termed the purest exponent of it. º º you say acting from this knowledge , º I would say acting from behind the mind ; º that intelligence that springs from behind the mind º has nothing to do with our knowledge built on thoughts; º and they can't be compared. º or perhaps that intelligence impells us to act through º the force of a thought sometimes , a thought º that we don't know where it arrived from; There have to be quite a number of quotes stating the mind is the Self too: as there is nothing but the Self. Hence any attempt to put the "undesirable" into an entity called "mind" could be called "evasive action" for the sake of explanation in the same sense that some will divide the mind into "higher" (intelligence) and "lower"(instincts). Arguably, the number zero doesn't have to be mentioned at the mention of a non-zero number. When ultimately, everything is Self/God/Love, the same applies. As any functioning requires mind, it will be clear that mind functions in sages too, irrespective the "explanation" they (are expected to) give. The difference, the mind of a sage is "at Peace" irrespective functioning, whether functioning or not.. Jan º º º ~~~ vicki º º> What the Bhagavad Gita doesn't mention is the experiential ºknowledge, º> that sentient life is loved unconditionally. This fundamental facet ºis hidden º> deeply... How else could life continue, even when the outlook on it ºis dark? º> Reflect on that as to make it a 'live' presence and a different ºmode of action º> will 'open up': Even if sentient life could be labeled "a bag of ºpain" yet is loved º> dearly and unconditionally. Acting from this knowledge is what ºmakes up º> "consistency". º> º º> º> Jan º º º º/join º º º º º ºAll paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, ºperceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and ºsubside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not ºdifferent than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the ºnature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. ºIt is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the ºFinality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of ºSelf-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome ºall to a. º º º ºYour use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2002 Report Share Posted April 15, 2002 On 4/15/02 at 3:03 AM viorica_weissman wrote: º> º> Sentience is love itself - tasted "best", undefiled by a sense ºof "I". º> Hence it will last as long as the potential to feel remains - and as º> a rule, that is the mind-body's allotted lifespan. º º º dear Jan, º º you say sentience is love itself. º Let me ask you - how do you say this ? º you feel it ? Are you this love ? º I am asking because it is a long time by now that I live º with an acute feeling of the unreality of the world º which deepens continuosly. º And what is there moving as sentience in the world belongs to what º appears unreal. Dear Vicki, As a rule, I only write from experience and when quoting, the source is mentioned but always in the appropriate context (experiential). Like with the photos of the dog: I go on hikes with Funny, take care of her, notice her behavior/mood. I did not 'borrow' those pics... Whence a feeling of "unreal"? That means there has to be a feeling of "real" too... Whatever can be felt ultimately resolves into Love and this can be experienced. It will happen in the process of the dying mind-body but hidden deepest, it rarely shows at an NDE. As it will remain unknown what matter, energy, force fields really are, any statement judging them "unreal" is a laugh: unreal mind-bodies made up of them then, can not know what is "real", being unreal by definition. As long as caught up in the vrittis of the unruly mind, oscillating between feelings of like, dislike, real, unreal etc., Peace that passeth understanding remains an unknown, apart from an occasional occurrence, when the feelings subside. Such an occurrence that dispels all doubts is Self-realization/enlightenment/apperception: But the vrittis remain. º º> º> Since even scientifically, "ego" (here defined as the sense of ºdoership) º> doesn't exist, why would i give any attention to a fata morgana º> perceived by some mind-bodies? º º I think that's great - if you can give no attention to º a fata morgana. Such attention could be called 'acquired conditioning' and the dog, with her preference for cooked food, reminds how strong that is. Hence, the application of the knowledge that there isn't a "doer", will take long... º º> Krishna doesn't mention the possibility of a mind-body º> without the potential to feel pain (hence pleasure as well). º º then pain and pleasure belong to the fata morgana then. Feelings of 'real/unreal' too. º º º > Hence unconditional love º > could be termed the purest exponent of it. º º And so it is. With this all teachings agree. It even shows in nature as gravity - attracting only. º º º> There have to be quite a number of quotes stating the mind º> is the Self too: as there is nothing but the Self. º º Yes , I remember ; mind turned outwards is the world, º turned inwards is the Self. º So we know what we have to do. º º ````````` vicki For some, that turning inwards is spontaneous, without effort, no choice, hence no escape until the potential to suffer completely dissolves. That is rare though and often an effort has to made. Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2002 Report Share Posted April 15, 2002 On Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:59:31 -0000 "viorica_weissman" <viorica_weissman writes: > > dear Jan , dear Mazie , dear all, > > I forgot to say something. > > I promise not to take love's name in vain. > > I love the ugly, the poor, the cripple , > I love my killer. > Ah, wonderful -- you are saying that you love life, which of course is gradually killing that which we tend to mistake for who we actually are! http://come.to/realization http://www.atman.net/realization http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm ______________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2002 Report Share Posted April 15, 2002 On 4/15/02 at 2:36 PM vioricail wrote: º> Dear Vicki, º> º> As a rule, I only write from experience and when quoting, the ºsource º> is mentioned but always in the appropriate context (experiential). º> Like with the photos of the dog: I go on hikes with Funny, take ºcare of º> her, notice her behavior/mood. I did not 'borrow' those pics... º º dear Jan , º that must be very nice to go on hikes with Funny; º and love her and take care of her ; º I love very much dogs; now that you mentioned this º I think seriously to have a dog for my children ; º I'll think about it. º Thank you ! º º ```` vicki Dear Vicki, In my case, the dog choose her master - I never contemplated taking a dog, and the reason why I agreed is that few dogs show a sense of humor.. Like running ahead of me, and turning around, and wait until I am near enough. Which is interpreted by the tourists ahead (who don't see me) in unbelievable, usual threatening ways... Until I overtake them and they see that wherever I go, the dog goes, and their interpretation of the halting dog, threateningly staring at them was "dead wrong". So wrong that on seeing the simple "truth", some will burst out in laughter of relief. This dog apparently did a fairly good choice, whereas quite a few humans make a wrong choice, evidenced by the large number of abandoned dogs at the beginning of every holiday season. So I hope, you and your children make a good choice too, or leave the choice to the dog, who will undoubtedly signal the affection you can recognize. Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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