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Like hate and war

Love is to the death

but it is also beyond it.

The inability to distinguish

between the uselessness of the former

and the necessity of the latter

may be the single greatest tragedy

of the human condition.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 4/14/02 at 5:19 PM viorica_weissman wrote:

 

[...]º

º yes , Jan , appication indeed.

º Love in real life battle fields.

º That reminds me the Bhagavad Gita.

º What we are talking about - turned

º in real life in any circumstances.

º That is the real challenge.

º

º Thank you for answering,

º

º vicki.

º

What the Bhagavad Gita doesn't mention is the experiential knowledge,

that sentient life is loved unconditionally. This fundamental facet is hidden

deeply... How else could life continue, even when the outlook on it is dark?

Reflect on that as to make it a 'live' presence and a different mode of action

will 'open up': Even if sentient life could be labeled "a bag of pain" yet is

loved

dearly and unconditionally. Acting from this knowledge is what makes up

"consistency".

º

º> Jan

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On 4/15/02 at 1:07 AM viorica_weissman wrote:

 

ºdear Jan ,

º what do you mean by this love for sentient life loved so dearly and

º unconditionally ?

º

º Is it one's love for life , for living ?

 

Sentience is love itself - tasted "best", undefiled by a sense of "I".

Hence it will last as long as the potential to feel remains - and as

a rule, that is the mind-body's allotted lifespan.

 

º Because if one loves life too much that is an obstacle

º that has to be given up.

º The unconditional love is of the one whose ego vanished.

º The conditional love ends up in pain and frustration.

 

Since even scientifically, "ego" (here defined as the sense of doership)

doesn't exist, why would i give any attention to a fata morgana

perceived by some mind-bodies?

º

º Bhagavad Gita mentions love of God that ultimately dissolves

º one's limited self . And with it unconditional love cames.

 

Krishna doesn't mention the possibility of a mind-body

without the potential to feel pain (hence pleasure as well).

The Buddha shortly mentioned that possibility, from his

experience of it. From that perspective, Love also is pain

because the undifferentiated somehow, seemingly gets

differentiated as "sentient life". Hence unconditional love

could be termed the purest exponent of it.

º

º you say acting from this knowledge ,

º I would say acting from behind the mind ;

º that intelligence that springs from behind the mind

º has nothing to do with our knowledge built on thoughts;

º and they can't be compared.

º or perhaps that intelligence impells us to act through

º the force of a thought sometimes , a thought

º that we don't know where it arrived from;

 

There have to be quite a number of quotes stating the mind

is the Self too: as there is nothing but the Self. Hence any

attempt to put the "undesirable" into an entity called "mind"

could be called "evasive action" for the sake of explanation

in the same sense that some will divide the mind into "higher" (intelligence)

and "lower"(instincts). Arguably, the number zero doesn't have to be mentioned

at the mention of a non-zero number. When ultimately, everything is

Self/God/Love,

the same applies. As any functioning requires mind, it will be clear that

mind functions in sages too, irrespective the "explanation" they (are expected

to) give.

The difference, the mind of a sage is "at Peace" irrespective functioning,

whether functioning or not..

 

Jan

º

º

º ~~~ vicki

º

º> What the Bhagavad Gita doesn't mention is the experiential

ºknowledge,

º> that sentient life is loved unconditionally. This fundamental facet

ºis hidden

º> deeply... How else could life continue, even when the outlook on it

ºis dark?

º> Reflect on that as to make it a 'live' presence and a different

ºmode of action

º> will 'open up': Even if sentient life could be labeled "a bag of

ºpain" yet is loved

º> dearly and unconditionally. Acting from this knowledge is what

ºmakes up

º> "consistency".

º> º

º> º> Jan

º

º

º

º/join

º

º

º

º

º

ºAll paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights,

ºperceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and

ºsubside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not

ºdifferent than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the

ºnature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present.

ºIt is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the

ºFinality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of

ºSelf-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome

ºall to a.

º

º

º

ºYour use of is subject to

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On 4/15/02 at 3:03 AM viorica_weissman wrote:

 

º>

º> Sentience is love itself - tasted "best", undefiled by a sense

ºof "I".

º> Hence it will last as long as the potential to feel remains - and as

º> a rule, that is the mind-body's allotted lifespan.

º

º

º dear Jan,

º

º you say sentience is love itself.

º Let me ask you - how do you say this ?

º you feel it ? Are you this love ?

º I am asking because it is a long time by now that I live

º with an acute feeling of the unreality of the world

º which deepens continuosly.

º And what is there moving as sentience in the world belongs to what

º appears unreal.

 

Dear Vicki,

 

As a rule, I only write from experience and when quoting, the source

is mentioned but always in the appropriate context (experiential).

Like with the photos of the dog: I go on hikes with Funny, take care of

her, notice her behavior/mood. I did not 'borrow' those pics...

 

 

Whence a feeling of "unreal"? That means there has to be a feeling of "real"

too...

Whatever can be felt ultimately resolves into Love and this can be experienced.

It will happen in the process of the dying mind-body but hidden deepest, it

rarely

shows at an NDE.

 

As it will remain unknown what matter, energy, force fields really are,

any statement judging them "unreal" is a laugh: unreal mind-bodies made

up of them then, can not know what is "real", being unreal by definition.

 

As long as caught up in the vrittis of the unruly mind, oscillating between

feelings

of like, dislike, real, unreal etc., Peace that passeth understanding remains an

unknown,

apart from an occasional occurrence, when the feelings subside. Such an

occurrence

that dispels all doubts is Self-realization/enlightenment/apperception:

But the vrittis remain.

º

º>

º> Since even scientifically, "ego" (here defined as the sense of

ºdoership)

º> doesn't exist, why would i give any attention to a fata morgana

º> perceived by some mind-bodies?

º

º I think that's great - if you can give no attention to

º a fata morgana.

 

Such attention could be called 'acquired conditioning' and the dog,

with her preference for cooked food, reminds how strong that is.

Hence, the application of the knowledge that there isn't a "doer",

will take long...

º

º> Krishna doesn't mention the possibility of a mind-body

º> without the potential to feel pain (hence pleasure as well).

º

º then pain and pleasure belong to the fata morgana then.

 

Feelings of 'real/unreal' too.

º

º

º > Hence unconditional love

º > could be termed the purest exponent of it.

º

º And so it is. With this all teachings agree.

 

It even shows in nature as gravity - attracting only.

º

º

º> There have to be quite a number of quotes stating the mind

º> is the Self too: as there is nothing but the Self.

º

º Yes , I remember ; mind turned outwards is the world,

º turned inwards is the Self.

º So we know what we have to do.

º

º ````````` vicki

 

For some, that turning inwards is spontaneous, without effort,

no choice, hence no escape until the potential to suffer completely

dissolves. That is rare though and often an effort has to made.

 

 

Jan

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On Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:59:31 -0000 "viorica_weissman"

<viorica_weissman writes:

>

> dear Jan , dear Mazie , dear all,

>

> I forgot to say something.

>

> I promise not to take love's name in vain.

>

> I love the ugly, the poor, the cripple ,

> I love my killer.

>

Ah, wonderful -- you are

saying that you love life,

which of course is

gradually killing that

which we tend to mistake

for who we actually are!

 

 

http://come.to/realization

http://www.atman.net/realization

http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm

http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm

 

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On 4/15/02 at 2:36 PM vioricail wrote:

 

º> Dear Vicki,

º>

º> As a rule, I only write from experience and when quoting, the

ºsource

º> is mentioned but always in the appropriate context (experiential).

º> Like with the photos of the dog: I go on hikes with Funny, take

ºcare of

º> her, notice her behavior/mood. I did not 'borrow' those pics...

º

º dear Jan ,

º that must be very nice to go on hikes with Funny;

º and love her and take care of her ;

º I love very much dogs; now that you mentioned this

º I think seriously to have a dog for my children ;

º I'll think about it.

º Thank you !

º

º ```` vicki

 

Dear Vicki,

 

In my case, the dog choose her master - I never contemplated taking

a dog, and the reason why I agreed is that few dogs show a sense of humor..

Like running ahead of me, and turning around, and wait until I am near enough.

Which is interpreted by the tourists ahead (who don't see me) in unbelievable,

usual threatening ways... Until I overtake them and they see that wherever I go,

the dog goes, and their interpretation of the halting dog, threateningly staring

at

them was "dead wrong". So wrong that on seeing the simple "truth", some will

burst out in laughter of relief.

 

This dog apparently did a fairly good choice, whereas quite a few humans make

a wrong choice, evidenced by the large number of abandoned dogs at the beginning

of every holiday season. So I hope, you and your children make a good choice

too,

or leave the choice to the dog, who will undoubtedly signal the affection you

can

recognize.

 

Jan

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