Superfluous Thoughts

[Guest guest]

"I" refers to being and so does here and now. The two thoughts have

different meanings in language but not in reality. I am the here and

now. Any thought is superfluous and spiritual programs ultimately

lead to this.

The here and now of Zenbob fully concurs. There can be no event

separate from the consciousness--no consciousness without implied

existence--

Of course all questions of individuation and group versus local identity are impossible to verify--

No one can "know" if they are alone, together, part of a mass of

bacteria achieving the process of experience, or a single abstract,

magnetic field of pure thought separate from the illusions of

physical existence.

It's like quantum physics--

One can locate the place or the velocity of a particle, but not both

at the same time. As soon as one thinks "I" then one has left the

realm of non-duality...but that does not mean that such a state of

existence or being does not exist (had not existed)...

Of course, merely the claim of such an experience is not proof of the experience, either.

I can claim to have vacationed on Mt. Olympus, but such a claim

without documentary evidence is suspect. I treat all claims of

"attainment" by others with the same cautious skepticism-- some

descriptions of the experience tend to validate it, others tend to

expose it as a forgery or wishful thought-- people tend to repeat the

same words or phrases to describe their state of bliss.

Real attainment is not unreachable, just sort of more rare than

common, and usually genuine experiences have their own unique

quality...and leave the attainee with a sense of gentle wonderment

and a peaceful quietude...(there are exceptions, of course!) and not

inclined toward grandiose claims or a need to gush the whole thing.

Everyone being diff--whilst at the same time sharing a common

spiritual nature just tends to muddy the waters. We're all perfect,

just some more or less perfect than others, as Mark Twain might have

written.

Neither diet, food ethic, moral imperative, education, "religious

doctrine" or physical fitness provide the means to achieving this

state of attainment--although it can be argued that certain

disciplines are more likely than others to make it possible.

Possible, not mechanically induce it!

Samadhi happens. It happens to those who do not seek it. It happens

to those who do. It happens for those who are ascetic and

disciplined--and it happens to the casual and often totally

unprepared. Mental, spiritual and yoga exercises are really aimed at

preparing the individual--giving them a form of discipline in order to

handle the experience--rather than simply to enable the attainment.

The gentle conversion of the spirit and temperament over time, in

order that IF not when attainment might occur...that this person be

able to "handle it" and not go off the wall or lose their sense of

proportion.

The problem with "western" disciples, so often is that they have not

put in the time and effort to prepare--and then if the experience

occurs--they are so overwhelmed and disoriented that they have no

reasonable way of handling this new thing--with all the

responsibilities it implies.

Supreme in this teaching is that the experience is just the

experience--it is not about the self--nor about the spiritual

attainment of that self! It is just the experience--and one that

should enrich that individual--and ultimately provide them with the

tools to enrich the lives of others. If it is just about themselves,

then it is a wasted experience, in my humble opinion. It's not

totally without good purpose...but it is like discovering a wonderful

secluded beach and then building walls around it so that others cannot

share it.

Well, that is quite a long comment that started out as a single

sentence and then got out of control.

My apologies...

Hugs,

Blessings,

Zenbob

[Guest guest]

Hi Everybody:

 

There does not have to be an experiencer. After an

impression ,physical or mental, the thought "I had it" may occur. It

most likely will if the impression is strong. The thought "I did it"

implies the existence of an experiencer but does not prove it.

 

The proof of being is in the being.

 

When I am in the here and now I describe the impression of that very

normal "experience" as two thoughts strung together, "I" and "here

and now". They actually refer to the same thing. I refers to being

and so does here and now. The two thoughts have different meanings in

language but not in reality. I am the here and now. Any thought is

superfluous and spiritual programs ultimately lead to this.

 

Love

Bobby G.

[Guest guest]

Dear Zenbob:

 

You write:

"Neither diet, food ethic, moral imperative, education, "religious

doctrine" or physical fitness provide the means to achieving this

state of attainment--although it can be argued that certain

disciplines are more likely than others to make it possible.

Possible, not mechanically induce it!

 

Samadhi happens. It happens to those who do not seek it. It happens

to those who do. It happens for those who are ascetic and

disciplined--and it happens to the casual and often totally

unprepared. Mental, spiritual and yoga exercises are really aimed at

preparing the individual--giving them a form of discipline in order

to handle the experience--rather than simply to enable the

attainment. The gentle conversion of the spirit and temperament over

time, in order that IF not when attainment might occur...that this

person be able to "handle it" and not go off the wall or lose their

sense of proportion."

 

I could not agree more. I enjoy your insights, thanks.

 

Love

Bobby G.