Guest guest Posted June 1, 2002 Report Share Posted June 1, 2002 from; http://www.gangaji.org/index.asp When we look back into history at the numbers of known sages, saints, and messiahs, we can see that awakening has been rare. Since it has been rare, we assume in our minds that it is not possible for us. Many people today say it is absolutely inconceivable for an ordinary person to simply awaken to the truth of who one is. That it is reserved for saints or for those who have demonstrated great purity or endured great spiritual practice. But this is not so. This is for you. With all of your experienced limitations, this is for you, simply because all of your experienced limitations are not who you truly are. Who you are is already on the other shore, already free, already the source of all wisdom, clarity, and beauty. Who you are is where all is, stillness itself. Awakening does not mean that this particular form you inhabit should or will be a saint, or a great artist, or king of the world. It means you can know without a doubt that who you are is not limited to form. Who you are is what the world appears in, what the cosmos appears in, what space itself appears in. There is a quickening on the Earth at this time. In this quickening is the invitation to realize where you are, who you are, who one is. If you are fully committed to that realization, there is nothing that can stop you. There is no obstacle. My teacher, Papaji, said that the greatest obstacle, in fact the final obstacle, is the belief that there is an obstacle. Be very aware if you are clinging to this belief, and have the courage to let it go so that you can see for yourself. Then our meeting will not have been just a passing thing that happened one day. It will be the reunion of Self to Self, a reunion that is newer than the first union. I am profoundly delighted with our meeting and the potential that is in this meeting. I know you as my own Self. I love you as my own Self. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2002 Report Share Posted June 1, 2002 , shawn <shawn@w...> wrote: > > from; http://www.gangaji.org/index.asp [snip] > Many people today say it is absolutely inconceivable > for an ordinary person to simply awaken to the truth > of who one is. And with that Sri Gangaji exposes the essential flaw of spiritual culture, the idea that realization is something you "get" after working real hard or being especially good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2002 Report Share Posted June 1, 2002 Hi, To extend this topic slightly. In Buddhism a distinction is made between Buddhas (there are many who have "awakened") and "World Conquering Buddhas" (Such as Gautama Siddartha who not only awakened but who also taught others to awaken). The "World Conquering" part is hyperbole but does make the distinction between those who awaken and those who also "master" the skill to affect large numbers of people by presence, example and teaching. In that sense there is Ramana Maharshi and his followers. Out of many followers Papaji has arisen, who has many followers. Ramana Maharshi showed the simple, clear way. And was a Master at teaching those who were willing to be "Master Teachers". Sri Poonja was willing and became a "Master Teacher" and likewise offers the "way" to those who will receive it, and those who also wish to become "Master Teachers" as well. He supports Ramana Maharshi's teaching and adds the stripping away of all the religious artifacts as well. The combination makes it possible for the many others who find their way to waking to live with it in the context of their lives, which may or may not have the purpose of being a "master teacher". Perhaps this distinction will have be clarifying, John L , "jodyrrr" <jodyrrr> wrote: > , shawn <shawn@w...> wrote: > > > > from; http://www.gangaji.org/index.asp > > [snip] > > > Many people today say it is absolutely inconceivable > > for an ordinary person to simply awaken to the truth > > of who one is. > > And with that Sri Gangaji exposes the essential flaw of > spiritual culture, the idea that realization is something > you "get" after working real hard or being especially good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2002 Report Share Posted June 2, 2002 , "johnrloganis" <johnrloganis> wrote: > Hi, > To extend this topic slightly. In Buddhism a distinction is made > between Buddhas (there are many who have "awakened") and "World > Conquering Buddhas" (Such as Gautama Siddartha who not only awakened > but who also taught others to awaken). The "World Conquering" part is > hyperbole but does make the distinction between those who awaken and > those who also "master" the skill to affect large numbers of people > by presence, example and teaching. > > In that sense there is Ramana Maharshi and his followers. Out of many > followers Papaji has arisen, who has many followers. > > Ramana Maharshi showed the simple, clear way. And was a Master at > teaching those who were willing to be "Master Teachers". > Sri Poonja was willing and became a "Master Teacher" and likewise > offers the "way" to those who will receive it, and those who also > wish to become "Master Teachers" as well. He supports Ramana > Maharshi's teaching and adds the stripping away of all the religious > artifacts as well. > > The combination makes it possible for the many others who find their > way to waking to live with it in the context of their lives, which > may or may not have the purpose of being a "master teacher". > > Perhaps this distinction will have be clarifying, > John L This ties back to Gangaji's statement. It's inconceivable for many to imagine themselves or others like them as masters. They hold the assumption that realization automatically makes one a master, as masters are all they have as examples of realiztion. Therefore, they cannot imagine themselves as realized. It's the central tragedy of spiritual culture, and a source of ongoing ignorance within it. --jody. > , "jodyrrr" <jodyrrr> wrote: > > , shawn <shawn@w...> wrote: > > > > > > from; http://www.gangaji.org/index.asp > > > > [snip] > > > > > Many people today say it is absolutely inconceivable > > > for an ordinary person to simply awaken to the truth > > > of who one is. > > > > And with that Sri Gangaji exposes the essential flaw of > > spiritual culture, the idea that realization is something > > you "get" after working real hard or being especially good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2002 Report Share Posted June 2, 2002 Hi Jody, I hope you read what I wrote as agreement with your statements. I agree completely and was trying to open the door a little for those who are "realized" and are comparing themselves with the "masters" and ignoring their own realizations. On the other side of the issue, true realization would ignore the distinction betweem a "realized person" and a "realized master" as being no different. The only difference is what they do with it, not with who they are. It has been said that "all things are of equal value to the sage". In the Taoist Lieh Tse the sage who attracts a large following, and accepts it, is condemned as not yet being fully realized. The Chuang Tse relates story after story of sages who run away from their followers. There the distinction is made that a fully realized person has no dependency on having followers. Papaji is very interesting in this regard. He seems to genuinely want the best for his followers -- until they "get it" (Become Quiet) and then he cuts them loose. So he didn't need his followers, nor does he seem to have sought them out in any way, and he didn't try to hold on to them as some of the Gurus of India have done. What is sad is, as you have pointed out, that there are those who did get "it" and then falling into the trap of "comparing" forget that they "got it". John L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2002 Report Share Posted June 2, 2002 , "johnrloganis" <johnrloganis> wrote: > Hi Jody, > I hope you read what I wrote as agreement with your statements. Completely John. > I agree completely and was trying to open the door a little for those > who are "realized" and are comparing themselves with the "masters" > and ignoring their own realizations. > > On the other side of the issue, true realization would ignore the > distinction betweem a "realized person" and a "realized master" as > being no different. The only difference is what they do with it, not > with who they are. It has been said that "all things are of equal > value to the sage". In the Taoist Lieh Tse the sage who attracts a > large following, and accepts it, is condemned as not yet being fully > realized. The Chuang Tse relates story after story of sages who run > away from their followers. There the distinction is made that a fully > realized person has no dependency on having followers. > > Papaji is very interesting in this regard. He seems to genuinely want > the best for his followers -- until they "get it" (Become Quiet) and > then he cuts them loose. So he didn't need his followers, nor does he > seem to have sought them out in any way, and he didn't try to hold on > to them as some of the Gurus of India have done. > > What is sad is, as you have pointed out, that there are those who did > get "it" and then falling into the trap of "comparing" forget that > they "got it". > > John L It's not the realized as much the wanting to be realized that do most of the comparing. People line up behind this or that guru, and then expect Self realization to be exactly as their guru renders it to them. If a person doesn't behave and/or appear to be exactly like their conception of their guru, then that person cannot be realized. The tragedy of this is that they've limited their window to their own realization to their conception of their guru. We are all unique in our developmental characteristics, and so our realization will be different as well, even if the understanding it results in is identical. --jody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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