Guest guest Posted June 2, 2002 Report Share Posted June 2, 2002 Dear Friends I have a question. Its a contradiction in terms thats the puzzle. ie "many Budists are enlightened. " Or those of any or no belief for that matter. I accept there is only the one consciousness but many forms arise out of this. So what happens when one fully enlightened being "sees/meets" another fully enlightened being. Both obviously with disolved ego? This situation could be played about with ie would they need to talk? Would they instantly recognise each others one ness. Of course Ramana would pheraps say to me that he recognises enlightened beings and those who think they are not enlightened as being the same. Is there any record of a dialogue between two fully enlightened masters? There is also one other contradiction. Some fully enlightened masters support the Tantric view that through the union of the male and female in stillness God is realised and ego disolved. ie no attempt to make love personally but let Love do with you what it will. Some will sugest celibicy. Some will say if you are married its a duty. I would have hoped that enlightened beings would speak as one on everything. Regards Chris "When we look back into history at the numbers of known sages, saints, and messiahs, we can see that awakening has been rare." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2002 Report Share Posted June 2, 2002 , "AnneChris" <am009a8716@b...> wrote: > Dear Friends > > I have a question. > > Its a contradiction in terms thats the puzzle. > ie "many Budists are enlightened. " > > Or those of any or no belief for that matter. > > I accept there is only the one consciousness but many forms > arise out of this. So what happens when one fully > enlightened being "sees/meets" another fully enlightened > being. They'd probably say "hi" first. > Both obviously with disolved ego? Both see the truth of themselves and of us all as being outside of ego, but they probably still have that structure of personality that some normally refer to as ego. > This situation > could be played about with ie would they need to talk? If they wanted to say something to one another. > Would > they instantly recognise each others one ness. Maybe not instantly, but in the course of the conversation they probably would. > Of course > Ramana would pheraps say to me that he recognises > enlightened beings and those who think they are not > enlightened as being the same. Is there any record of a > dialogue between two fully enlightened masters? There is > also one other contradiction. Some fully enlightened masters > support the Tantric view that through the union of the male > and female in stillness God is realised and ego disolved. ie > no attempt to make love personally but let Love do with you > what it will. > > Some will sugest celibicy. > > Some will say if you are married its a duty. > > I would have hoped that enlightened beings would speak as > one on everything. You will be hoping that for eternity. Enlightenment happens in the context of being a person. Enlightenment doesn't obliterate the person, it obliterates the exclusive identification with *being* only a person. The person is still the person, and people have differing opinions. Those who suggest celibacy were probably celebate. Those who suggest marriage were probably married. > Regards Chris > > "When we look back into history at the numbers of known > sages, saints, and messiahs, we can see that awakening has > been rare." Only when you make exclusive to the group "awakened" only those who have make a big enough splash to get recorded by history. There have been millions more who just were enlightened without telling anyone or gathering large satsangs. They didn't get recorded and so we didn't hear about them, but they were there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2002 Report Share Posted June 2, 2002 Bottom line: Enlightenment is conceptual. "Beings who see other beings, and evaluate their awareness," is conceptual. What is nonconceptual is truth, is reality, is all. Conceptuality, taken as really-existing, that is, taken as independent truth, is ignorance. Conceptuality, understood in light of the nonconceptual, is not out of place, and has no power to delude. Love, Dan > , "AnneChris" <am009a8716@b...> wrote: > > > Dear Friends > > > > I have a question. > > > > Its a contradiction in terms thats the puzzle. > > ie "many Budists are enlightened. " > > > > Or those of any or no belief for that matter. > > > > I accept there is only the one consciousness but many forms > > arise out of this. So what happens when one fully > > enlightened being "sees/meets" another fully enlightened > > being. > > They'd probably say "hi" first. > > > Both obviously with disolved ego? > > Both see the truth of themselves and of us all as being > outside of ego, but they probably still have that structure > of personality that some normally refer to as ego. > > > This situation > > could be played about with ie would they need to talk? > > If they wanted to say something to one another. > > > Would > > they instantly recognise each others one ness. > > Maybe not instantly, but in the course of the > conversation they probably would. > > > Of course > > Ramana would pheraps say to me that he recognises > > enlightened beings and those who think they are not > > enlightened as being the same. Is there any record of a > > dialogue between two fully enlightened masters? There is > > also one other contradiction. Some fully enlightened masters > > support the Tantric view that through the union of the male > > and female in stillness God is realised and ego disolved. ie > > no attempt to make love personally but let Love do with you > > what it will. > > > > Some will sugest celibicy. > > > > Some will say if you are married its a duty. > > > > I would have hoped that enlightened beings would speak as > > one on everything. > > You will be hoping that for eternity. Enlightenment > happens in the context of being a person. Enlightenment > doesn't obliterate the person, it obliterates the exclusive > identification with *being* only a person. The person is > still the person, and people have differing opinions. > > Those who suggest celibacy were probably celebate. > > Those who suggest marriage were probably married. > > > Regards Chris > > > > "When we look back into history at the numbers of known > > sages, saints, and messiahs, we can see that awakening has > > been rare." > > Only when you make exclusive to the group "awakened" only > those who have make a big enough splash to get recorded > by history. There have been millions more who just > were enlightened without telling anyone or gathering > large satsangs. They didn't get recorded and so we didn't > hear about them, but they were there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2002 Report Share Posted June 3, 2002 Hi Chris, What happens when two enlightened masters meet... What they do with each other is called "Leela" or "Lila" in India. They "play". Sometimes they play games with each other, sometimes they have a cup of tea. The Chuang Tse records some meetings, likewise the Teachings of Layman W'ang, and the Zen records include many such meetings, among others. As a former teacher I have found that when any of my students have found someone who "thinks" like me, and they manipulate the situation for us to get together the result is usually that it is very boring for everyone. How could it be otherwise: we agree! So there is nothing to discuss. >From the absolute point of view, everyone I meet is already enlightened, whether it is known or not. Whatever is known resonates between us and whether there is a little recognition or a lot of recognition, any recognition between us lifts us both into more awareness of peace and love. John L , "AnneChris" <am009a8716@b...> wrote: > > > Dear Friends > I have a question. > Its a contradiction in terms thats the puzzle. > ie "many Budists are enlightened. " > > Or those of any or no belief for that matter. > > I accept there is only the one consciousness but many forms arise out of this. > So what happens when one fully enlightened being "sees/meets" another fully enlightened being. Both obviously with disolved ego? > This situation could be played about with ie would they need to talk? Would they instantly recognise each others one ness. Of course Ramana would pheraps say to me that he recognises enlightened beings and those who think they are not enlightened as being the same. > Is there any record of a dialogue between two fully enlightened masters? > There is also one other contradiction. > Some fully enlightened masters support the Tantric view that through the union of the male and female in stillness God is realised and ego disolved. ie no attempt to make love personally but let Love do with you what it will. > > Some will sugest celibicy. > > Some will say if you are married its a duty. > > I would have hoped that enlightened beings would speak as one on everything. > > Regards Chris > > > > > "When we look back into history at the numbers of known sages, saints, and messiahs, we can see that awakening has been rare." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2002 Report Share Posted June 3, 2002 Thanks makes sense Chris Sai Ram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2002 Report Share Posted June 3, 2002 Thanks Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2002 Report Share Posted June 3, 2002 So what happens when one fully enlightened being "sees/meets" another fully enlightened being. Both obviously with disolved ego? > Perhaps exactly the same as if anyone else met, except they are not under the delusion that it is the first time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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