People in dreams, both known and Unknown

[Guest guest]

Your warm glow is welcome. your comments about sharing the presence

of those you have known and found important in life, in dream or

meditative states seemed to synchronize with many of my own recent

experiences.

When we are in a receptive state, and also contemplative,

reflective...we seem to bring to the surface the most important

experiences and persons of our lives.

I do not think that the sense of this understanding is necessarily

limited to our own memories and being...it is important to have an

inner memory or appreciation in order for higher levels of

communication to come about...but I believe that higher levels of

communication occur for those who are receptive.

For one thing, when we have such "unexpected" contacts...where daily

life and thoughts in no way invoke the person or persons who appear

in our minds, our meditations or dreams, who are we to say that such

"sudden" appearances are not the desired state of those others in

some higher level of common consciousness?

They are a wise comfort to me, Jacques, as I am sure they are to you, too.

Native Americans and other Shamanistic cultures revere this sense of

connection and believe that if there is an individual person, that

they are made more complete by the process of taking into themseves

the essence or spiritual being of these others. They do not believe

that others necessarily need be passed into the spirit world in order

to provide this sharing of spirit--but that deep bonds and spiritual

sharing in life actually can "clone" a part of one person's being

into another person. Then, even after that person passes to another

state of existence, that bond remains and communication can continue

to take place.

In western society, I think we tend to believe that death must be a

precondition for this altered state of communication--no spirit

communication without a spirit from beyond.

I no longer adhere to such a limited view, and truly believe that we

actually do absorb something from others who we value and share

spiritual bonds with.

Oddly, I have had moving and profoundly real experiences in the dream

state, where things of very valuable insight and strong emotional

sharing have occured with others--others whom I know only in the

dream state! This alternate existence is so persistant and

realistic that I often wonder if it is not the result of living

multiple existences in alternate dimensions or some thing.

I would be interested in knowing if others have had any experiences

along these lines. And, also, by the way, some of the data

comunicated by these others, during such states, has been validated

as authentic, real, and of such content that I in my waking state

could not have known this data by any means.

Love,

Zenbob

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/2/02 4:54:16 AM Mountain Daylight Time, zen2wrk

writes:

 

<< Oddly, I have had moving and profoundly real experiences in the dream

state,

where things of very valuable insight and strong emotional sharing have

occured with others--others whom I know only in the dream state! This

alternate existence is so persistant and realistic that I often wonder if it

is not the result of living multiple existences in alternate dimensions or

some thing. >>

 

This is sure how I experience it! There seem to me to be many distinct

levels of dreaming -- from information processing down (out?) to strange and

marvelous worlds, indeed. I regularly return to (and have relationships

with) worlds, people, even creatures that are unknown to me in waking life.

I've also had some success with the exercises in Carlos Casteneda's The Art

of Dreaming -- particularly the one where you look down at your hands and

wake up in the dream to lucidity and control. The Toltec idea is to

increasingly understand the dream qualities of waking life so that all states

are seen as a continuum. But mainly these events just happen, beyond my

volition.

 

Also, the psychological roto-rootering that comes with kundalini awakening

was seen clearly in dreams. Holly

[Guest guest]

Glad to know that others have had the same connections--

Yes, the Castenada Lucid Dreaming exercises are useful. In fact, most

forms of meditative "suggestion" or programming prior to going to

sleep can greatly increase the odds of having these lucid, real

experience type of dreams.

I tend to call this sort of dream experience a "Class III" dream,

with colorful vivid, but clearly perceived as "dream-like" dreams

being "Class II" and typical, less vivid, vague, often colorless

dreams being a "Class I" dream.

I have proposed a "Class IV" dream, which is defined by actions

undertaken during the Lucid Dream state actually altering the

physical reality of the waking state world in objective and definable

ways. I think I have either come close, or actually crossed into this

once or twice...but the "objective verification" is difficult, because

it would seem that one should have "witnesses" before and after the

state of events to verify that what was experienced actually can be

corroborated.

Thanks for the nice response...I would love to hear more details

relating to the alternate worlds and those whom you have met and

communicated with.

Love,

Blessings,

Zenbob