Guest guest Posted June 9, 2002 Report Share Posted June 9, 2002 Dear all, it's good to know that on some level we are already perfect, but IMHO we need to be extremely careful with such a statement because it can be very misleading. Words of saints and masters are sometimes spoken from a special viewpoint, and can easily be misconstrued. Like when Jesus said, "I say unto you that more joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance." Should we all hurry to become greater sinners now? Likewise, it may be true from a very high standpoint that we are already perfect and that there is nothing to realize, and this statement may inspire us and spur us on in our search. But if we are sincere with ourselves, we won't conclude from that that we are self-realized beings like Jesus or Sri Ramana just yet. Just a little warning, probably not necessary here, but I wrote it anyway. :-) In loving imperfection, Michael -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----Von: Gloria Lee [glee (AT) citlink (DOT) net] - viorica weissman MillionPaths ; NamoRamana ; RamanaMaharshi ; SriArunachala Sunday, June 09, 2002 6:18 AM [RamanaMaharshi] Maharshi-You are already perfect D: Are my present qualities of faith, humility andsurrender sufficiently intense, or are they still veryimperfect and require further development? If so, howcan I quickly develop them to perfection so as todeserve Grace and early success in the realization ofAtman, or in the annihilation of the ego? M: Do not entertain such thoughts of imperfection,lack of qualities, etc. You are already perfect. Getrid of the ideas of imperfection and need fordevelopment. There is nothing to realize orannihilate. You are the Self. The ego does not exist.Pursue the enquiry and see if there is anything to berealized or annihilated. See if there is any mind tobe controlled. Even the effort is being made by themind which does not exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2002 Report Share Posted June 9, 2002 on 6/9/02 12:28 PM, MikeSuesserott (AT) t-online (DOT) de at MikeSuesserott (AT) t-online (DOT) de wrote: Dear all, it's good to know that on some level we are already perfect, but IMHO we need to be extremely careful with such a statement because it can be very misleading. Words of saints and masters are sometimes spoken from a special viewpoint, and can easily be misconstrued ============================ Thank you, mike.....it seems these advaitists trick themselves into non-attainment attainment! It's quite baffling, as if you could merely agree and be done with it! Uh-oh, did my concept lock me out of somewhere? *lol* Namaste, Shawn ======================================== Like when Jesus said, "I say unto you that more joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance." Should we all hurry to become greater sinners now? Likewise, it may be true from a very high standpoint that we are already perfect and that there is nothing to realize, and this statement may inspire us and spur us on in our search. But if we are sincere with ourselves, we won't conclude from that that we are self-realized beings like Jesus or Sri Ramana just yet. Just a little warning, probably not necessary here, but I wrote it anyway. :-) In loving imperfection, Michael -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Gloria Lee [glee (AT) citlink (DOT) net] - viorica weissman <viorica (AT) zahav (DOT) net.il> MillionPaths <millionpaths> ; NamoRamana <NamoRamana> ; RamanaMaharshi <ramanamaharshi> ; SriArunachala <sriarunachala> Sunday, June 09, 2002 6:18 AM [RamanaMaharshi] Maharshi-You are already perfect D: Are my present qualities of faith, humility and surrender sufficiently intense, or are they still very imperfect and require further development? If so, how can I quickly develop them to perfection so as to deserve Grace and early success in the realization of Atman, or in the annihilation of the ego? M: Do not entertain such thoughts of imperfection, lack of qualities, etc. You are already perfect. Get rid of the ideas of imperfection and need for development. There is nothing to realize or annihilate. You are the Self. The ego does not exist. Pursue the enquiry and see if there is anything to be realized or annihilated. See if there is any mind to be controlled. Even the effort is being made by the mind which does not exist. /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. Terms of Service <> . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2002 Report Share Posted June 10, 2002 , MikeSuesserott@t... wrote: > Dear all, > > it's good to know that on some level we are already > perfect, but IMHO we need to be extremely careful > with such a statement because it can be very > misleading. And thus Ramana's words are eviscerated by practiced humility. > Words of saints and masters are sometimes spoken > from a special viewpoint, and can easily be misconstrued. > Like when Jesus said, "I say unto you that more joy shall > be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, than over ninety > and nine just persons, which need no repentance." Should we > all hurry to become greater sinners now? We might go a little deeper into the meaning of the statement. > Likewise, it may be true from a very high standpoint that > we are already perfect and that there is nothing to realize, > and this statement may inspire us and spur us on in our search. > But if we are sincere with ourselves, we won't conclude from > that that we are self-realized beings like Jesus or Sri > Ramana just yet. But we might conclude it's not very far away, that it may be just around the corner, no matter what kind of "sinners" we are. > Just a little warning, probably not necessary here, but I > wrote it anyway. > :-) > > In loving imperfection, > > Michael Michael, please don't see this as an attack on you, but I think you can take Ramana's words at face value each and every time you encounter them. For example: M: Do not entertain such thoughts of imperfection, lack of qualities, etc. You are already perfect. Get rid of the ideas of imperfection and need for development. There is nothing to realize or annihilate. You are the Self. The ego does not exist. Pursue the enquiry and see if there is anything to be realized or annihilated. See if there is any mind to be controlled. Even the effort is being made by the mind which does not exist. Each and every person here can take each and every word above as the clear and honest truth about us all. They really need no interpretation at all. That's what's so beautiful about Sri Ramana's words. They are right on the money right from the source everytime. There is no myth there, only fact of being, always. love--jody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2002 Report Share Posted June 10, 2002 on 6/9/02 5:16 PM, jodyrrr at jodyrrr wrote: Each and every person here can take each and every word above as the clear and honest truth about us all. They really need no interpretation at all. That's what's so beautiful about Sri Ramana's words. They are right on the money right from the source everytime. There is no myth there, only fact of being, always. love--jody. =============== ,.........is that your opinion Jody or are you stating "fact"???? Would you make such a claim about a living man? I just wonder........ Love and concepts, Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2002 Report Share Posted June 10, 2002 , shawn <shawn@w...> wrote: > on 6/9/02 5:16 PM, jodyrrr at jodyrrr wrote: > > > Each and every person here can take each and every word > above as the clear and honest truth about us all. They > really need no interpretation at all. That's what's so > beautiful about Sri Ramana's words. They are right on > the money right from the source everytime. There is > no myth there, only fact of being, always. > > love--jody. > > > =============== > > ,.........is that your opinion Jody or are you stating > "fact"???? Would you make such a claim about a living > man? I just wonder........ All we have here are our opinions Shawn, but I'm bold enough to call it a fact. However, that's just my opinion. > Love and concepts, > > Shawn just love--jody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2002 Report Share Posted June 10, 2002 , shawn <shawn@w...> wrote: Love and concepts, Shawn .....Dear Brother, you have been really cracking me up -- God how beautiful you are! It always amazes me how in love so many are with their beliefs, even to the point that they can manufacture experiences within themselves to confirm their beliefs. we can see this, for example, in the so- called advaitists who are so committed to their concepts about no concepts that they even believe they are actually experiencing no concepts! of course, this is quite a bit different than really experiencing the freedom inherent in our own True Nature, but don't try telling them that! LoveAlways, b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2002 Report Share Posted June 10, 2002 , "mazie_l" <sraddha54@h...> wrote: [snip] > this is quite a bit different than really experiencing the > freedom inherent in our own True Nature, but don't try telling them > that! > > LoveAlways, > > b Why, we could never presume to think that they might actually know what they are talking about! All our cherished notions about enlightenment and our own spirituality would be as good as so much garbage otherwise. We couldn't let that happen now, could we? No, I'm afraid you couldn't. with compassion--jody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2002 Report Share Posted June 10, 2002 on 6/9/02 6:13 PM, jodyrrr at jodyrrr wrote: > ,.........is that your opinion Jody or are you stating > "fact"???? Would you make such a claim about a living > man? I just wonder........ All we have here are our opinions Shawn, but I'm bold enough to call it a fact. However, that's just my opinion. > Love and concepts, > > Shawn just love--jody. ========================== Dear jody, May it soon be obviously so. May the force of the universe conspire to help in pulling the rug outfrom under us so that we fall through the trap door of our heart, and blasting through the other side unable to wipe that silly grin off our face. So be it, Shawn PS> May our "perfection" be none at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2002 Report Share Posted June 10, 2002 Hi Michael, You wrote: >>> it's good to *know* that on some level we are already perfect, but IMHO we need to be extremely careful with such a statement ....snip...<<< Don Juan at some point admonishes Carlos Castaneda, "to claim knowledge as power." In cultures other than our current Western, knowledge is more than just the result of some abstract mental endeavour. Knowledge is power, energy, reality in a very exacting and tangible sense. Plato at one point admonishes his students to practice the motto "Gnoti Seauton", "Know Thyself"... not to just mentally know who you are, but to follow Socrates' understanding of this saying as 'find out for yourself who you are, what you are, that you are.' In those days the word 'knowledge' had a more physical and concrete connotation that we currently 'acknowledge'. "To know someone" could also mean to have intercourse, to pro-create, to pro-generate, to have progeny. "Know Thyself" could also mean, "Have intercourse with yourself, f... thyself" (:-), re-generate yourself, regenerate the genie within, one's genius, one's ori-gen-al self. (There is a lot more to this... Plato believed that each one of us was just half a human being, half a four-legged animal so to say, looking for our other lost two-legged half. When we would find our other lost half, we would be coupled up again, we would copulate with our other half, be whole again, become again a kind of androgynous hermaphrodite being.) I'm not really sure how serious Plato was though... :-) Wasn't he also the first one who wrote about Atlantis and the crop circles in Albino ? Anyway, we could say that we need to re-claim, re-cognize our original being..., picking up the thread again from to the moment of our *physical conception*..., not that moment of *mental conception* in the minds of our parents, siblings and society at large, not their conception about who we were to be in the eyes of them - our beholders. Really, we only have to de-cognize external, second hand knowledge, we just have to un-believe what we were ever forced to believe...or as Jody quotes so relevantly from Ramana: >>> snip... Get rid of the ideas of imperfection and need for development... <<< Wim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2002 Report Share Posted June 10, 2002 , shawn <shawn@w...> wrote: > on 6/9/02 6:13 PM, jodyrrr at jodyrrr wrote: > > > > ,.........is that your opinion Jody or are you stating > > "fact"???? Would you make such a claim about a living > > man? I just wonder........ > > All we have here are our opinions Shawn, but I'm bold enough > to call it a fact. However, that's just my opinion. > > > Love and concepts, > > > > Shawn > > just love--jody. > ========================== > > Dear jody, > > May it soon be obviously so. May the force of the universe conspire to help > in pulling the rug outfrom under us so that we fall through the trap door of > our heart, and blasting through the other side unable to wipe that silly > grin off our face. Hear, hear! > So be it, > > Shawn > > PS> May our "perfection" be none at all. May we see ourselves as we've always been. love--jody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2002 Report Share Posted June 10, 2002 , "hrtbeat7" <hrtbeat7> wrote: > , "jodyrrr" <jodyrrr> wrote: > > > >We couldn't let that happen now, > could we? > > > ....Dear Jody, > do you believe that you have some choice in the matter? > > > > LoveAlways, > > b We are capable of questioning our cherished notions, yes. As to letting go of them, that would depend on how good one's karma was. love--jody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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