Guest guest Posted June 11, 2002 Report Share Posted June 11, 2002 Hi Jody, that second passage does not contradict the first. In fact, it corroborates our interpretation of the first passage. A despondent devotee comes to Sri Ramana. The sage tells him to be of good cheer - perfection is already within him. The mind that the devotee has difficulty to control is not real - part of Maya only. But Sri Ramana also says, "pursue the enquiry!" Why would that be necessary, if the devotee was already perfect in actuality? And consider this also. The same perfection, according to Sri Ramana, is within all of us. Not only in his devotees, but in all mankind. This would include Adolf H. and Osama b.L. and quite a few other strange characters. Doesn't this fact tell us plainly that innate perfection, unless brought out through some process of sadhana, is there in potentiality only? Referring to Sri Ramana's illustration again, the potential pit becomes an actual pit through digging. Kindest regards, Michael > -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- > Von: jodyrrr [jodyrrr] > Gesendet: Monday, June 10, 2002 19:21 > An: > Betreff: Re: Maharshi-You are already perfect > > > , MikeSuesserott@t... wrote: > > [snip] > > > In the present case, Sri Ramana himself has given guidance > > in what way perfection already exists within each one of > > us. He said: > > > > M: The Real is as it always is. We are not creating anything > > new, or achieving something, which we did not have before. > > The illustration given in books is this. > > We dig a well and create a huge pit. The space in the pit > > or the well has not been created by us. We have just removed > > the earth, which was filling the space there. The space was > > there then and is also there now. Similarly we have simply to > > throw out all the age-long Samskaras [innate tendencies] > > which are inside us. When all of them have been given up, > > the Self will shine alone. > > > > This tells us the meaning of Sri Ramana's words quite clearly, > > doesn't it? > > But what of this passage: > > "M: Do not entertain such thoughts of imperfection, > lack of qualities, etc. You are already perfect. Get > rid of the ideas of imperfection and need for > development. There is nothing to realize or > annihilate. You are the Self. The ego does not exist. > Pursue the enquiry and see if there is anything to be > realized or annihilated. See if there is any mind to > be controlled. Even the effort is being made by the > mind which does not exist." > > Isn't the meaning equally clear? > > Can't we take these words in the same way? > > I'd contend Ramana's illustration of the pit was > an attempt to explain why we *aren't* realized, not > a "how to" become realized. If we're already perfect, > why don't we know it? Ramana explains: samskaras. > The path is an exercise in getting rid of them. > > However, having these samskaras doesn't impede our > perfection, as he notes in the second passage. While > we might blame the samskaras for our ignorance, they > still do not prevent our perfection as the Self. > > It's a sticky wicket for sure, but I've come to > understand and agree with the second passage and > would take it over the first every time. That may > make me exceedingly grandiose in the eyes of some, > but such is the counsel of my heart and such remains > congruent with what this life has come to understand. > > love--jody. > > > /join > > > > > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, > sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and > exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves > rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from > Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come > and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart > Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A > true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, > spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to > a. > > > > Your use of is subject to > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2002 Report Share Posted June 11, 2002 , MikeSuesserott@t... wrote: > Hi Jody, > > that second passage does not contradict the first. In > fact, it corroborates our interpretation of the first > passage. A despondent devotee comes to Sri Ramana. The > sage tells him to be of good cheer - perfection is > already within him. The mind that the devotee has > difficulty to control is not real - part of Maya only. > But Sri Ramana also says, "pursue the enquiry!" > > Why would that be necessary, if the devotee was already > perfect in actuality? Because the actual perfection has not been directly realized. This doesn't mean it doesn't exist actually, just that it isn't known presently. A diamond covered with mud is still a diamond even though it looks like a mud ball. > And consider this also. The same perfection, according > to Sri Ramana, is within all of us. Not only in his > devotees, but in all mankind. This would include Adolf > H. and Osama b.L. and quite a few other strange > characters. Doesn't this fact tell us plainly that > innate perfection, unless brought out through some > process of sadhana, is there in potentiality only? No. Hitler and bin Laden are just as perfect as Ramana. Their seeming imperfections are anchored to their existences in the relative sphere, but as pure being they are just as perfect as anyone else. They may have a much grimier and more putrid coating of mud, but as diamonds they are every bit as bright as any other diamond. > Referring to Sri Ramana's illustration again, the > potential pit becomes an actual pit through digging. To bring passage two back: - M: Do not entertain such thoughts of imperfection, - lack of qualities, etc. You are already perfect. Get - rid of the ideas of imperfection and need for - development. That's clear as a bell to me. While he may not be saying don't stop trying, he is clearly saying there is no real reason to dig the pit. - There is nothing to realize or - annihilate. You are the Self. The ego does not exist. - Pursue the enquiry and see if there is anything to be - realized or annihilated. Keep enquiring and you'll see there's nothing to dig. - See if there is any mind to - be controlled. Even the effort is being made by the - mind which does not exist. Don't stop trying, but don't fall into the trap of believing you're getting somewhere, that the "pit" is getting any deeper, or that you'll find what you're looking for once you get to the bottom of it. > Kindest regards, > > Michael love--jody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.