Guest guest Posted June 10, 2002 Report Share Posted June 10, 2002 , "jodyrrr" <jodyrrr> wrote: >We couldn't let that happen now, could we? .....Dear Jody, do you believe that you have some choice in the matter? LoveAlways, b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2002 Report Share Posted June 11, 2002 Hi Jody, if you define "perfection" in the way you are doing it here by saying, "Hitler and bin Laden are just as perfect as Ramana", then you are referring to the innate Atman, the soul. It is true that everyone's soul is perfect. But what is the use of claiming that kind of "perfection" for oneself? OK, so you are as "perfect" as everybody else. You still have to do the digging, or the washing of the diamond, to bring it out. Kindest regards, Michael > -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- > Von: jodyrrr [jodyrrr] > Gesendet: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 20:15 > An: > Betreff: Re: Maharshi-You are already perfect > > > , MikeSuesserott@t... wrote: > > > Hi Jody, > > > > that second passage does not contradict the first. In > > fact, it corroborates our interpretation of the first > > passage. A despondent devotee comes to Sri Ramana. The > > sage tells him to be of good cheer - perfection is > > already within him. The mind that the devotee has > > difficulty to control is not real - part of Maya only. > > But Sri Ramana also says, "pursue the enquiry!" > > > > Why would that be necessary, if the devotee was already > > perfect in actuality? > > Because the actual perfection has not been directly > realized. This doesn't mean it doesn't exist actually, > just that it isn't known presently. > > A diamond covered with mud is still a diamond even > though it looks like a mud ball. > > > And consider this also. The same perfection, according > > to Sri Ramana, is within all of us. Not only in his > > devotees, but in all mankind. This would include Adolf > > H. and Osama b.L. and quite a few other strange > > characters. Doesn't this fact tell us plainly that > > innate perfection, unless brought out through some > > process of sadhana, is there in potentiality only? > > No. Hitler and bin Laden are just as perfect as > Ramana. Their seeming imperfections are anchored > to their existences in the relative sphere, but as > pure being they are just as perfect as anyone else. > > They may have a much grimier and more putrid coating > of mud, but as diamonds they are every bit as bright > as any other diamond. > > > Referring to Sri Ramana's illustration again, the > > potential pit becomes an actual pit through digging. > > To bring passage two back: > > - M: Do not entertain such thoughts of imperfection, > - lack of qualities, etc. You are already perfect. Get > - rid of the ideas of imperfection and need for > - development. > > That's clear as a bell to me. While he may not be > saying don't stop trying, he is clearly saying there > is no real reason to dig the pit. > > - There is nothing to realize or > - annihilate. You are the Self. The ego does not exist. > - Pursue the enquiry and see if there is anything to be > - realized or annihilated. > > Keep enquiring and you'll see there's nothing to dig. > > - See if there is any mind to > - be controlled. Even the effort is being made by the > - mind which does not exist. > > Don't stop trying, but don't fall into the trap of believing > you're getting somewhere, that the "pit" is getting any > deeper, or that you'll find what you're looking for once > you get to the bottom of it. > > > Kindest regards, > > > > Michael > > love--jody. > > > > /join > > > > > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, > sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and > exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves > rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from > Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come > and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart > Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A > true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, > spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to > a. > > > > Your use of is subject to > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2002 Report Share Posted June 11, 2002 , MikeSuesserott@t... wrote:> > Hi Jody, > > if you define "perfection" in the way you are doing it > here by saying, "Hitler and bin Laden are just as > perfect as Ramana", then you are referring to the > innate Atman, the soul. It is true that everyone's soul > is perfect. And that perfect innate soul lights up *all* human behavior and experience. It lights up plotting to overthrow the infidels by crashing jets into office towers just as much as it lights up a sage's discourse about the Self. > But what is the use of claiming that kind of > "perfection" for oneself? OK, so you are as "perfect" > as everybody else. > > You still have to do the digging, or the washing of the > diamond, to bring it out. > > Kindest regards, > > Michael Only if you believe that realization will make a person any different (morally or intellectually) than they were before. Sri B has provided a Ramana quote previously which deals with this belief: - "Nor is there any difference between the jnani and - the ignorant (ajnani) in their conduct; the difference - lies only in their angles of vision." - - Ramana, Absolute Consciousness love--jody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2002 Report Share Posted June 11, 2002 , MikeSuesserott@t... wrote: [snip] > You still have to do the digging, or the washing of > the diamond, to bring it out. > > Kindest regards, > > Michael But the one doing the washing or digging is itself the mud it is attempting to clean. It's like trying to clean the mud off the diamond with muddy hands. No matter what you do, you'll still end up with a muddy diamond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2002 Report Share Posted June 11, 2002 Well said my friend. Keep enquiring and you'll see there's nothing to dig. Isn't the enquiring the digging? love, Shawn ============================= on 6/11/02 8:15 AM, jodyrrr at jodyrrr wrote: , MikeSuesserott@t... wrote: > Hi Jody, > > that second passage does not contradict the first. In > fact, it corroborates our interpretation of the first > passage. A despondent devotee comes to Sri Ramana. The > sage tells him to be of good cheer - perfection is > already within him. The mind that the devotee has > difficulty to control is not real - part of Maya only. > But Sri Ramana also says, "pursue the enquiry!" > > Why would that be necessary, if the devotee was already > perfect in actuality? Because the actual perfection has not been directly realized. This doesn't mean it doesn't exist actually, just that it isn't known presently. A diamond covered with mud is still a diamond even though it looks like a mud ball. > And consider this also. The same perfection, according > to Sri Ramana, is within all of us. Not only in his > devotees, but in all mankind. This would include Adolf > H. and Osama b.L. and quite a few other strange > characters. Doesn't this fact tell us plainly that > innate perfection, unless brought out through some > process of sadhana, is there in potentiality only? No. Hitler and bin Laden are just as perfect as Ramana. Their seeming imperfections are anchored to their existences in the relative sphere, but as pure being they are just as perfect as anyone else. They may have a much grimier and more putrid coating of mud, but as diamonds they are every bit as bright as any other diamond. > Referring to Sri Ramana's illustration again, the > potential pit becomes an actual pit through digging. To bring passage two back: - M: Do not entertain such thoughts of imperfection, - lack of qualities, etc. You are already perfect. Get - rid of the ideas of imperfection and need for - development. That's clear as a bell to me. While he may not be saying don't stop trying, he is clearly saying there is no real reason to dig the pit. - There is nothing to realize or - annihilate. You are the Self. The ego does not exist. - Pursue the enquiry and see if there is anything to be - realized or annihilated. Keep enquiring and you'll see there's nothing to dig. - See if there is any mind to - be controlled. Even the effort is being made by the - mind which does not exist. Don't stop trying, but don't fall into the trap of believing you're getting somewhere, that the "pit" is getting any deeper, or that you'll find what you're looking for once you get to the bottom of it. > Kindest regards, > > Michael love--jody. /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. Terms of Service <> . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2002 Report Share Posted June 11, 2002 on 6/11/02 10:23 AM, jodyrrr at jodyrrr wrote: Only if you believe that realization will make a person any different (morally or intellectually) than they were before. Sri B has provided a Ramana quote previously which deals with this belief: - "Nor is there any difference between the jnani and - the ignorant (ajnani) in their conduct; the difference - lies only in their angles of vision." - - Ramana, Absolute Consciousness love--jody. ==========This was not his belief. Love Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2002 Report Share Posted June 11, 2002 Hey, Jody -- A gem: > But the one doing the washing or digging is itself > the mud it is attempting to clean. It's like trying > to clean the mud off the diamond with muddy hands. > No matter what you do, you'll still end up with a > muddy diamond. Yes -- the attempted washing is the muddying. No attempt at a solution, the problem dissolves. People mistake this to mean to do nothing, but it's not the nothing they think they're not-doing. That's why Ramana and Zen teachers sometimes advise: enquire more, get really urgent. Self-consciously being aware of oneself as not-doing and not-seeking, isn't not-doing, not-seeking. " " doesn't exclaim, "Yay, I've found God!" -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2002 Report Share Posted June 11, 2002 , shawn <shawn@w...> wrote: > on 6/11/02 10:23 AM, jodyrrr at jodyrrr wrote: > > > Only if you believe that realization will make a person any > different (morally or intellectually) than they were before. > Sri B has provided a Ramana quote previously which deals > with this belief: > > - "Nor is there any difference between the jnani and > - the ignorant (ajnani) in their conduct; the difference > - lies only in their angles of vision." > - > - Ramana, Absolute Consciousness > > love--jody. > > ==========This was not his belief. Love Shawn Correct. It was his firsthand knowledge. love--jody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2002 Report Share Posted June 11, 2002 on 6/11/02 12:42 PM, jodyrrr at jodyrrr wrote: Correct. It was his firsthand knowledge. love--jody. ============== Bingo my friend. Love you back. Okay! You're all invited to my place for a luau! Price of admission-one diamond! Aloha, Shawn PS No pigs will be sacrificed on our behalf.... roadkill only...... KIDDING!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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