Guest guest Posted June 13, 2002 Report Share Posted June 13, 2002 Relationship implies power dynamics, whether as an extreme division of power or through subtleties, such as tones of voice, manipulations, slights. In the realm of relationship, there are power dynamics. Beyond relationship, there is no power dynamic, as no other is there. The "powerful figure who knows" can be an attraction, and if that attraction is acted out through relationship, power dynamics emerge -- as you well note. Release of the need for a relationship with a powerful figure, as well as release of any anxiety about the development of such relationships, opens as "what is beyond relationship" ... Deep down, there is the sense of insecurity about suffering, thus wanting a powerful someone who knows, who is more powerful than "my" insecurity. If insecurity is opened to, it can dissolve, and no neediness remains for a powerful figure to attach to. Not the avoidance of relationship, nor attraction to relationship -- Just peace and open, nonconditional. If love is understood as attraction, as wanting to be submissive to, be disciplined by, be held by another's love -- then it yet depends on an "other" -- Not that this would be wrong, or out of place. There is nothing out of place anywhere. Readiness and opening are the same, and what is opened to and the one who opens, are the same. Namaste, Dan , "Linda C" <jyotish@w...> wrote: > Hi Tg: > > I, also have discomfort with the words you quote below - it is as if the > same words could be used in a s/m novel. One would like to think that > perhaps it is a problem with language and translation and that the situation > is such that the guru 'only teaches those who have chosen to stay close'. > The 'surrender of ego' can be a powerful tool in the hands of teachers and > we human beings are so hungry for the peace of self knowledge that we go > down many strange and crooked roads. > > Here's hoping that in the end all roads lead to home. > > Love, > Linda > > > > > > Message: 7 > > Thu, 13 Jun 2002 07:01:36 -0000 > > "leteegee" <Leteegee@a...> > > Re: Ammachi interview > > > > > > I apologize for my words to those who have this woman as a Guru. But > > something just doesn't feel right here to me as I was reading her > > words. Just to point out a few here: > > > > MA: > > >Amma only disciplines those who have chosen to stay close to her, > > and she only does this when they are ready to be disciplined. A > > disciple is one who is willing to be disciplined. The guru first > > binds the disciple with boundless, unconditional love so that when > > the disciple eventually is disciplined, he or she is aware of the > > presence of thatlove in all situations. > > > > > > TG: > > This sounds like being with a controlling abuser. > > > > It is the purpose of an (emotional, verbal, or physical) abuser > > to bind the other with boundless unconditional love, so when the > > abuser finally *disciplines* the other, he or she is aware of the > > presence of that love in all situations. Including the abuse. > > > > That's their M.O. > > That's what keeps the *willing* coming back. > > That and their (coughunconditional love) > > > > Of course, probably not in this case, but thought I'd just mention it. > > > > Did Ramana fiercely deal with his devotees, as mentioned Amma does > > with hers (pretty much continuously) in this interview? I really > > don't know... maybe this is a 'true Master's' way. > > > > (Give me the false one anyday) > > > > With Love, > > xxxtg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________ __ > > ____________________ __ > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2002 Report Share Posted June 13, 2002 Well said, now my head is full, Love, Shawn on 6/13/02 5:08 AM, dan330033 at dan330033 wrote: Relationship implies power dynamics, whether as an extreme division of power or through subtleties, such as tones of voice, manipulations, slights. In the realm of relationship, there are power dynamics. Beyond relationship, there is no power dynamic, as no other is there. The "powerful figure who knows" can be an attraction, and if that attraction is acted out through relationship, power dynamics emerge -- as you well note. Release of the need for a relationship with a powerful figure, as well as release of any anxiety about the development of such relationships, opens as "what is beyond relationship" ... Deep down, there is the sense of insecurity about suffering, thus wanting a powerful someone who knows, who is more powerful than "my" insecurity. If insecurity is opened to, it can dissolve, and no neediness remains for a powerful figure to attach to. Not the avoidance of relationship, nor attraction to relationship -- Just peace and open, nonconditional. If love is understood as attraction, as wanting to be submissive to, be disciplined by, be held by another's love -- then it yet depends on an "other" -- Not that this would be wrong, or out of place. There is nothing out of place anywhere. Readiness and opening are the same, and what is opened to and the one who opens, are the same. Namaste, Dan , "Linda C" <jyotish@w...> wrote: > Hi Tg: > > I, also have discomfort with the words you quote below - it is as if the > same words could be used in a s/m novel. One would like to think that > perhaps it is a problem with language and translation and that the situation > is such that the guru 'only teaches those who have chosen to stay close'. > The 'surrender of ego' can be a powerful tool in the hands of teachers and > we human beings are so hungry for the peace of self knowledge that we go > down many strange and crooked roads. > > Here's hoping that in the end all roads lead to home. > > Love, > Linda > > > > > > Message: 7 > > Thu, 13 Jun 2002 07:01:36 -0000 > > "leteegee" <Leteegee@a...> > > Re: Ammachi interview > > > > > > I apologize for my words to those who have this woman as a Guru. But > > something just doesn't feel right here to me as I was reading her > > words. Just to point out a few here: > > > > MA: > > >Amma only disciplines those who have chosen to stay close to her, > > and she only does this when they are ready to be disciplined. A > > disciple is one who is willing to be disciplined. The guru first > > binds the disciple with boundless, unconditional love so that when > > the disciple eventually is disciplined, he or she is aware of the > > presence of thatlove in all situations. > > > > > > TG: > > This sounds like being with a controlling abuser. > > > > It is the purpose of an (emotional, verbal, or physical) abuser > > to bind the other with boundless unconditional love, so when the > > abuser finally *disciplines* the other, he or she is aware of the > > presence of that love in all situations. Including the abuse. > > > > That's their M.O. > > That's what keeps the *willing* coming back. > > That and their (coughunconditional love) > > > > Of course, probably not in this case, but thought I'd just mention it. > > > > Did Ramana fiercely deal with his devotees, as mentioned Amma does > > with hers (pretty much continuously) in this interview? I really > > don't know... maybe this is a 'true Master's' way. > > > > (Give me the false one anyday) > > > > With Love, > > xxxtg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________ __ > > ____________________ __ > > > > > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > > /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. Terms of Service <> . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2002 Report Share Posted June 13, 2002 , shawn <shawn@w...> wrote: > Well said, now my head is full, > > Love, Shawn Here is a key for the release valve! @-> Love, Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2002 Report Share Posted June 13, 2002 on 6/13/02 9:54 AM, dan330033 at dan330033 wrote: Here is a key for the release valve! @-> Love, Dan ================= Thanks Dan, I'll try it..hummmm.....let's see one pointedness, ajna third eye concentrate, cocentrate....zzzzzzzzzz @@@#^**pppfft!** ahhhh, now i see while my love and I were out dancing I'd mistaken my love for a passing fancy, (turning to look at my partner, myself) but who are you? it seems my vision was but glancing! love, Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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