the human condition

[Guest guest]

since we are all polymorphic of the same similar species; albeit some

more graced as teachers and some more graced as learners -

what is this "human condition"?

is it that we all have the same capabilities? But like that we bleed

when cut or is it in a more spiritual sense?

what is it that makes us all the same, both teachers and learners?

curiously,

valerie

[Guest guest]

The sameness is in the potential, whether it is fulfilled or not.

 

There are causes - conditions - effects. We are all, teachers and

learners, subject to the same laws, the difference lies, I suspect,

in the character and its development, in the integrity of the

individual.

 

The difference is simply that the teacher generally came before the

learner in history; and the teacher is also a teacher because the

teacher never stops learning!

 

John L.

 

, v <amused@p...> wrote:

> since we are all polymorphic of the same similar species; albeit

some

> more graced as teachers and some more graced as learners -

> what is this "human condition"?

> is it that we all have the same capabilities? But like that we bleed

> when cut or is it in a more spiritual sense?

> what is it that makes us all the same, both teachers and learners?

> curiously,

> valerie

[Guest guest]

on 6/16/02 3:28 PM, johnrloganis at johnrloganis wrote:

The sameness is in the potential, whether it is fulfilled or not.

==============

The core of our Being is the same. There is one being, being us all,

is one way to put it, but doesn't precisely describe it.

We are all Being/ Consciousness/Love . This is the stuff everything is made of.

Not just a potential but Already true.

The difference is in the bodies (apparent individuals) and their

stories ( apparent personal history/personality.)

And even this is only apparently so.

Namaste, Shawn

==========================

There are causes - conditions - effects. We are all, teachers and

learners, subject to the same laws, the difference lies, I suspect,

in the character and its development, in the integrity of the

individual.

The difference is simply that the teacher generally came before the

learner in history; and the teacher is also a teacher because the

teacher never stops learning!

John L.

, v <amused@p...> wrote:

> since we are all polymorphic of the same similar species; albeit

some

> more graced as teachers and some more graced as learners -

> what is this "human condition"?

> is it that we all have the same capabilities? But like that we bleed

> when cut or is it in a more spiritual sense?

> what is it that makes us all the same, both teachers and learners?

> curiously,

> valerie

[Guest guest]

shawn wrote:

on 6/16/02 3:28 PM, johnrloganis at johnrloganis

wrote:

J - The sameness is in the potential, whether it is fulfilled

or not.

v - I wonder if there is a yearning for grace - to see God;

and/or conversely an angst or futility within, that humans all hold similar

beneath all the potentialities?

==============

sh. - The core of our Being is the same. There is one being, being

us all, is one way to put it, but doesn't precisely describe it.

We are all Being/ Consciousness/Love . This is the stuff everything

is made of.

Not just a potential but Already true.

v. - Do you mean like ectoplasm ? DNA and awareness?

The difference is in the bodies (apparent individuals) and their

stories ( apparent personal history/personality.)

And even this is only apparently so.

v.- even apparent differences in bodies and stories still

hold similarities within sub-cultures - ever notice that? You go to a different

city and there's people just like other people you know in bodies and stories

from other places?

==========================

j. -There are causes - conditions - effects. We are all, teachers

and

learners, subject to the same laws, the difference lies, I suspect,

in the character and its development, in the integrity of the

individual.

The difference is simply that the teacher generally came before

the

learner in history; and the teacher is also a teacher because the

teacher never stops learning!

John L.

v.- yeah I know - one would hope we all are teachers

and learners. And I used to be convinced all humans had an angst - I now

realize I was hanging out with artists and actors and writers and probably

people with mood disorders. Is it the "human condition" to have mood disorders?

Hahaha - that's probably the better question - and

then the people with mood disorders go low and get angst. Becoming futile

with angst they seek God tirelessly day and night and join spiritual discussion

lists on the world wide web?

Those are all great answers - but say round here

- when I look round at a certain *types* of persons - the veneer plant

workers, or the cruise ship tourist shop workers, whom are plentiful,

I don't feel human.

what IS it by nature we humans have in common

?

if it is but ectoplasm - how to recognize it

what IS "the human condition?

[Guest guest]

, v <amused@p...> wrote:

 

what IS it by nature we humans have in common ?

 

 

.....Silence.

 

 

 

"Silence cannot be explained. It cannot be known or experienced in a

way that might be familiar to us, as we are used to experiencing

other events in our life. However, when we say beauty or love, and

when we are meeting those two in a pure and honest place, then we can

say that silence has come into our life.

 

We can only use words to point in the direction of silence, such that

if one actually goes into the distance towards which the words point,

one will eventually come upon silence as a fact. When silence is

beheld as a fact, all speculation, argument, and belief about that to

which the word silence refers ends instantly and forever.

 

Silence is that in which everything exists, from which everything

comes, and into which everything returns. It is the unutterable

context in which the cosmos occurs, a playground of pure

consciousness.

 

Silence is oneness. Silence refers to a state of fundamental unified

existence, a condition of being in which all conflict, fear, doubt,

projection, memory, delusions-all subjectivity and objectivity-are

dissolved and thus resolved. Silence is an instantaneous recognition

of that which is out of time and unconditioned by cause and effect.

If one were a religious person, one could say that silence is the

soul of God, or perhaps the God of God.

 

If this sounds abstract, vague, or esoteric, it only sounds so

because we cannot say exactly what silence is. Some things are so

very beyond the reach of words and metaphors, symbols and images,

beliefs and concepts that all attempts to describe them are foolish.

And yet, even as we speak foolishly and impertinently of that which

cannot be said, something within us will smile knowingly. It is this

intuitive resonance which words can stimulate. This is the direction

we can point to and go toward, walking or running, in order for the

recognition of the wordless to become real. But even as silence

becomes indomitably real, as taut and tense and thrilling as a tidal

wave crashing upon us, crushing us beyond recognition-even as this

happens, we cannot speak its truth.

 

Any disciplined practice that involves focusing the mind will

eventually lead to silence. Spiritual methods such as meditation

techniques, chanting mantras, yoga, tai chi-all of these will lead to

silence. Self-inquiry will lead to silence. So will martial arts, and

dance, and art. So will rock climbing and sky-diving. So will cooking

and eating. So will playing and loving. Everything will lead to

silence, because silence is the life force behind everything. It is

the oxygen without which everything would fall over dead, flash

frozen. Since all things lead to silence, we must follow the echoes

of silence, inward, to the source of all things within us.

 

 

Being led to silence might imply that silence is somewhere else. This

is only a figure of speech. Silence is always the first thing and the

last thing. It is always present, but very subtle, so we must

therefore learn to recognize it. The direction of silence is any

direction. There is no place that silence is not, although we cannot

apprehend it with our senses or with our minds.

 

Still, let me suggest a fool-proof way of coming into silence

quickly, so that silence becomes a fact for us. First, we must

develop the ability to distinguish one thought from another. When we

can do this, we must then develop the ability to see clearly the

space between two thoughts. When that space becomes large and stable

enough for us to drive a truck through it, we will know silence as a

fact.

 

In the very center of universal manifestation, one finds swirling

gusts of silence, vast galactic streamers millions of light years

long. If we try to understand this silence through our mind, we'll

never understand it. Silence is realized in a moment of communion, in

a moment of losing our separation from life. The underlying truth of

existence is silence.

 

Silence embraces everything and cannot be known because to know

silence, we would have to be separate from silence, and silence would

then be an object of our perception and of our knowing. Silence

refers to that which is beyond this dualism of knower and known.

Silence becomes a fact when we and life become an inseparable whole.

Even though we are trying to define it, no definition of silence is

accurate. We don't want to think that by defining it, we can know it.

Silence is knowable only to itself, and we come into that knowing

through an alchemy of self-transcendence.

 

We can only create a definition that points to silence. The truth of

reality is silent. It is undisturbed. It is causeless. It is out of

time, out of space, non-dual. Silence is the preeminent nothingness

in which the universe dances in spectacular and mysterious ways.

 

If silence is the United States, then intuition is Ellis Island, the

first stop of immigrants seeking asylum. Intuition is the first hint,

the first experience of the far greater country of silence. Intuition

is not a tool, but rather an intelligence that uses us. We might not

see this right away. Intuition is willing to be used, but only for a

time. One day, it will require that we suspend our goals and

objectives, our plans and aspirations, for a fuller recognition of

what intuition is, what it represents. We will come to see that

intuition is the ambassador of silence, and we must serve that

silence, for it is the soul of the world.

 

In the instant of intuitive perception, we are taken wholly into that

power of knowing which is beyond the mind. In going beyond the mind,

we go beyond all notions of self and identity, of thought and belief,

of perceiver and perceived. A photograph of the intuitive flash would

show only light. There would be no other image, only light. The light

of intuition is the light of consciousness. Intuition is Ellis

Island, the gateway to freedom. In order to be free, we must want

freedom, we must be willing to leave behind the old countries of

control and manipulation from which we have come. We cannot come to

this new country with ideas of exploitation, as gangsters. We have to

come as servants of the new freedom. We have to learn new ways of

living. We have to become students of silence and freedom in order to

learn how to live without fear, without violence, without cruelty."

 

ROBERT RABBIN

"Catalyzing Clarity, Freedom, and Joy"

[Guest guest]

you know robert - this is a very good answer! ;-)))

tho what in the wilderness by the sea, in the yowling pines

and crashing sea - do we await for silence?

is this meant as a joke?

because of 7 billion people

how many people know real silence?

:-)))

valerie

hrtbeat7 wrote:

, v <amused@p...>

wrote:

what IS it by nature we humans have in common ?

.....Silence.

"Silence cannot be explained. It cannot be known or experienced

in a

way that might be familiar to us, as we are used to experiencing

other events in our life. However, when we say beauty or love,

and

when we are meeting those two in a pure and honest place, then

we can

say that silence has come into our life.

We can only use words to point in the direction of silence, such

that

if one actually goes into the distance towards which the words

point,

one will eventually come upon silence as a fact. When silence is

beheld as a fact, all speculation, argument, and belief about that

to

which the word silence refers ends instantly and forever.

Silence is that in which everything exists, from which everything

comes, and into which everything returns. It is the unutterable

context in which the cosmos occurs, a playground of pure

consciousness.

Silence is oneness. Silence refers to a state of fundamental unified

existence, a condition of being in which all conflict, fear, doubt,

projection, memory, delusions-all subjectivity and objectivity-are

dissolved and thus resolved. Silence is an instantaneous recognition

of that which is out of time and unconditioned by cause and effect.

If one were a religious person, one could say that silence is the

soul of God, or perhaps the God of God.

If this sounds abstract, vague, or esoteric, it only sounds so

because we cannot say exactly what silence is. Some things are

so

very beyond the reach of words and metaphors, symbols and images,

beliefs and concepts that all attempts to describe them are foolish.

And yet, even as we speak foolishly and impertinently of that which

cannot be said, something within us will smile knowingly. It is

this

intuitive resonance which words can stimulate. This is the direction

we can point to and go toward, walking or running, in order for

the

recognition of the wordless to become real. But even as silence

becomes indomitably real, as taut and tense and thrilling as a

tidal

wave crashing upon us, crushing us beyond recognition-even as this

happens, we cannot speak its truth.

Any disciplined practice that involves focusing the mind will

eventually lead to silence. Spiritual methods such as meditation

techniques, chanting mantras, yoga, tai chi-all of these will lead

to

silence. Self-inquiry will lead to silence. So will martial arts,

and

dance, and art. So will rock climbing and sky-diving. So will cooking

and eating. So will playing and loving. Everything will lead to

silence, because silence is the life force behind everything. It

is

the oxygen without which everything would fall over dead, flash

frozen. Since all things lead to silence, we must follow the echoes

of silence, inward, to the source of all things within us.

Being led to silence might imply that silence is somewhere else.

This

is only a figure of speech. Silence is always the first thing and

the

last thing. It is always present, but very subtle, so we must

therefore learn to recognize it. The direction of silence is any

direction. There is no place that silence is not, although we cannot

apprehend it with our senses or with our minds.

Still, let me suggest a fool-proof way of coming into silence

quickly, so that silence becomes a fact for us. First, we must

develop the ability to distinguish one thought from another. When

we

can do this, we must then develop the ability to see clearly the

space between two thoughts. When that space becomes large and stable

enough for us to drive a truck through it, we will know silence

as a

fact.

In the very center of universal manifestation, one finds swirling

gusts of silence, vast galactic streamers millions of light years

long. If we try to understand this silence through our mind, we'll

never understand it. Silence is realized in a moment of communion,

in

a moment of losing our separation from life. The underlying truth

of

existence is silence.

Silence embraces everything and cannot be known because to know

silence, we would have to be separate from silence, and silence

would

then be an object of our perception and of our knowing. Silence

refers to that which is beyond this dualism of knower and known.

Silence becomes a fact when we and life become an inseparable whole.

Even though we are trying to define it, no definition of silence

is

accurate. We don't want to think that by defining it, we can know

it.

Silence is knowable only to itself, and we come into that knowing

through an alchemy of self-transcendence.

We can only create a definition that points to silence. The truth

of

reality is silent. It is undisturbed. It is causeless. It is out

of

time, out of space, non-dual. Silence is the preeminent nothingness

in which the universe dances in spectacular and mysterious ways.

If silence is the United States, then intuition is Ellis Island,

the

first stop of immigrants seeking asylum. Intuition is the first

hint,

the first experience of the far greater country of silence. Intuition

is not a tool, but rather an intelligence that uses us. We might

not

see this right away. Intuition is willing to be used, but only

for a

time. One day, it will require that we suspend our goals and

objectives, our plans and aspirations, for a fuller recognition

of

what intuition is, what it represents. We will come to see that

intuition is the ambassador of silence, and we must serve that

silence, for it is the soul of the world.

In the instant of intuitive perception, we are taken wholly into

that

power of knowing which is beyond the mind. In going beyond the

mind,

we go beyond all notions of self and identity, of thought and belief,

of perceiver and perceived. A photograph of the intuitive flash

would

show only light. There would be no other image, only light. The

light

of intuition is the light of consciousness. Intuition is Ellis

Island, the gateway to freedom. In order to be free, we must want

freedom, we must be willing to leave behind the old countries of

control and manipulation from which we have come. We cannot come

to

this new country with ideas of exploitation, as gangsters. We have

to

come as servants of the new freedom. We have to learn new ways

of

living. We have to become students of silence and freedom in order

to

learn how to live without fear, without violence, without cruelty."

ROBERT RABBIN

"Catalyzing Clarity, Freedom, and Joy"

/join

 

All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights,

perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside

back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than

the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness.

Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home

is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal

Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously

arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a.

 

Terms of Service.

[Guest guest]

, v <amused@p...> wrote:

 

what in the wilderness by the sea, in the yowling pines

and crashing sea - do we await for silence?

is this meant as a joke?

because of 7 billion people

how many people know real silence?

 

 

....Dear V --

 

we don't await for Silence,

Silence awaits for us (patiently, so

patiently that only the most observant

can even feel the subtle fire burning within

this Silence, and perhaps this blaze may intrigue them,

even to the point of approaching it, gingerly at first,

unsure, but mysteriously drawn, and then, somehow --

call it Grace, call it Luck, nobody knows -- there is a

kind of shift, and then what was curiosity becomes a yearning,

a passion like a lover for their beloved, and so this Silence awaits

all of us) to Remember ourselves as That.

 

Nor are there 7 billion people here to know real silence. There is

only one person here, and that person is Silence, appearing as 7

billion voices, and is it not such a lovely symphony, Dear?

 

LoveAlways,

 

b