Love Yourself

[Guest guest]

It takes a mountain of effort

to keep our heart closed in the open body of love.

It takes a lifetime of resistance to cover the heart

with wounded dreams.

Yet still we would choose to be hooks

to feed this hungry mouth of desiring,

rather than the sea of love itself.

Let the mouth you long for be your own,

and then you will know how to kiss.

 

We all want to find a body to love within.

A body of love that we cherish as other.

Yet we are not other, we are only love. The body of love.

 

A love that tries to live apart from itself,

cannot know itself.

Living outside of our love like this,

is not love, it is living like bait for our hunger.

We are hung out, and dressed up like dried fishes

trying to entice the ocean to make love to us.

 

The ocean cannot even see you like this.

 

The juice we want to lap is running sweetly through the heart,

but we ignore this love drink,

and go hungrily soliciting after a scarecrow we have made from

famine.

Do not open your hunger for love to anything

but your own love making.

Love, without your surrender, is just a subtle molestation,

that you have learned to think of as its reality.

A scar you would give to an other, dressed as love.

A fear that turns upon you as the abuse you have given yourself in

secret.

 

Give yourself away to love,

until you cannot see anything but its expression in you.

When you can be this,

you will know that you never had to become it.

There was nothing to catch,

nothing to seek,

nothing to do,

but love yourself into this awakening.

This loving, will be a giving without need.

It has no needs but giving. And this need is life itself.

 

This love we long for, arrives in our heart constantly

looking for a place to be an ocean,

yet we give it away as tears before we have drunk of it ourselves.

Selling it cheaply to the highest bidder. Insane.

Love cannot become our reality like this,

just tears drained into empty dreams we dress as love.

No wonder we are left panting on the shore of self, looking for the sea.

 

If you want to give away yourself to love,

give your mind to this present culmination of you.

Not an idea of love, not an idea of an experience,

not a past or future dream, but a joy that breaks within you now,

as the experience of truth in you.

Of life in you. This love is an earthquake that must crack the heart

open.

 

Forget about being spiritual and walking towards love like a beggar.

Spill yourself open now on this your sacred ground.

Consume your spirit in every breath,

live naked in love.

Make no association to a mind

that does not undress this love.

We have identified with thoughts that arise

like weeds with no roots in love.

 

Attend to the root of thought, and not to the weeds.

This bed you cultivate will become a garden for love.

A spaciousness from which real flowers can grow.

The thought forms of love.

 

We cannot awaken in the body of love

that is seen as someone else's body.

 

First this love must be the body of your being.

It is only your touch that stirs your heart to passion,

your lips that kiss that heart.

You, that you must lie down with, and love beyond all bodies.

You cannot give a dream away until you make it your reality.

Then you do not have to give a dream away,

you do not pass on a belief like an illness,

you give your life to itself.

 

Love yourself into loves reality.

Love yourself mindlessly

until the mind is brought into the service of love.

Do not take the mind to bed, do not make love in that wound.

Find the breast of your love first, and suckle there,

make love in the womb first.

Be filled and brought awake

by this delightful entrancing and probing of love.

Until your original nature floods the body of love within you.

Then the mind will heal, and be one with love.

 

This love bed you have left, you have not made yet.

It must be softened with your forgiveness,

and tossed buoyantly within you,

to become the lover you have rejected.

You have gone to search for a secret couch to conceal yourself within.

Yet until your bed is open and unashamed,

it will be your cover in a world of unmade beds.

It can never bring you the bliss that you are,

until you bring this bliss awake in you.

 

When you nourish yourself,

like a flower is nourished,

by the sky, earth, sun and rain- you will open.

Until then you can give nothing away except the illusion of love.

And any dream body that you seek to grasp and hold within,

will bring only your concealed death,

painted for awhile as love,

but it will be a false awakening,

a counterfeit coin you try to turn to gold.

A dying flower devised from the mud of the earth

you have not tilled and made ready.

Your real love cannot receive it.

 

Before you give yourself away.

You must be awake to your love.

You must awake with loves proclamation,

in the body of love to state your reality in total vulnerability.

This very you,

that you have thought into being

must arrive as Gods seed,

in the love that really is you.

Until then you have nothing to give.

Do not try to give what you do not have,

not until you know you have it All.

 

Give yourself to yourself.

Love yourself so much that you die for it.

Until you cannot live one moment without this love play.

Until you die to the idea of love,

to become, only its reality.

Until you are this sweet extremity,

you cannot arouse love in an other,

but only the same lack that you have painted your heart with.

You will sell love cheaply,

and it will return to you as vinegar,

and you will thirst again for the drink

you dashed from your own lips.

The wine of you.

 

First, love yourself.

You have nothing to feed anyone until you are healed by this love.

When you are delicious with love,

the world will come to eat from your table.

Lovers will appear in the form of all things.

You will be delirious to give your life away.

Love will hold itself as a sensual embrace within you.

Lovers will see that your cup runs over,

and will be fulfilled in your presence.

You will let them drink from you

just as your love has let you drink from it,

and they will find themselves in your freedom.

 

Find the image of love you have invented,

and undrape it of every delusion.

Beneath its rags there is nothing

but this river of love

that overflows as your movement in the passion of life itself.

In the body of this love.

 

There will not be two bodies. Just love.

 

Ask of yourself, and answer with silence.

Let that space overflow your mind.

A mind that would quickly reinvent you as other than love.

If you feel the poison of your old mind returning,

drop whatever notion that has arisen and fall into love again.

 

Fall in love with yourself again like a river meeting the sea.

 

When you hear the endless complaint of mind returning,

disassociate your attention from it.

Remove your heart from the garrulous accusations,

the bewailing of you into dreams of hell.

Listen clearly,

and note that it is the same discordant lament

that drugged you into separation before love had awoken in you.

Just the same old noises,

the emotions had learned to mimic in habitual dreams.

Dismiss them lightly, and rest in the heart.

 

Love rests in action, and acts in rest.

Love is ever changing to create the contours of your existence.

Be at one with this flow, and you will be the wave and the stillness,

both the form and formless.

See no difference in what appears,

and what does not appear.

Just do not make any appearance a shield to love.

Love makes no judgement of what is.

It sees the mask of time, and runs through the dream,

as free as light from an eternal star.

 

Love is life itself.

This life is the only reality of a perfect energy

that knows no depletion.

If your body of love contracts to any other definition,

you force that energy from you, as you define it from its reality.

You encase the mind-body in an armour

joined to times dead weight, and cease to flow.

 

Look deeply at what is before you,

knowing that this vision is your mind appearing in front of you.

Walk through this mirage, and make love to all you see.

This way of loving, will disclose the truth of love

that you would seek to hide.

The face of love veils itself from loveless eyes,

until love looks unashamedly on love to reveal it there.

 

There is no religion and no belief,

that is worth more than two hearts joined as many,

but first you must awaken your own love

within you to unite to All Love.

There is no dogma worth holding onto,

that does not contain the mystery of this love.

Talk of oneness is just talk from an empty ghost,

if love does not become your awakened being.

 

This divine quest is beyond question and answer,

it is your life,

your movement in the body of love.

Give space to it by resting within its constant flow

and gently you will be born into that flow that is your love.

 

 

love

 

eric

[Guest guest]

Love Yourself, indeed...

 

And when that happens you will discover that indeed there is "another".

 

"Love one another..."

Let's just not quickly poopoo that.

 

The Divine Self who has discovered the Divine Other...

 

All that within One Divine.

 

And all here, where we are now, on this Earth, all Divinely embodied.

 

But not separately identified..., that is essential.

 

There is a "world of difference", between the illusive world where one sees

"the other" ONLY in terms of separation, or the real world where we are with

"the other" in union... ONELY.

 

The "difference" between the real unitive world and that illusive separative

world, that separative de-luding* edge is a mental construct, a complexly

drawn thought pattern, drawn with wiggly separative lines, mentally swerving

throughout unitive reality, wandering... a meandering path... the

labyrinthine path...

 

(*De-luded means "taken away from play", Could "divine lila" mean "homo

ludens"?)

 

At some point when one ceases to identify with the *separative* aspects of

the physical, creative, volitional, emotional, expressional, inspirational,

intelligent and spiritual distinctions within reality, we discover only

unitive dynamics within our total being.

....

....

....

I was wondering...

The way we nowadays re-appreciate love, the Mazie expresses it with Bob, the

way Mark Valentine did with Mira..., is there something similar *nowadays*

in the current Hindu Buddhist teachings? And I do not mean Bhakti or Tantra.

The old Indian and Tibetan art expresses a lot of it, just look at the

Sanchi sculptures, the Tibetan Yab Yums.

 

There is still such an undercurrent of celibacy in ahum-spirituality, the

guru vow, so to say...

The faux-spiritual (I like that word 'faux', who used it last?) obsession

with sublimation...

 

Krishna and IPadmasambava did not sublimate...

 

Wim

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[Guest guest]

Dear Robertji,

I can't tell your voice from Mazies anymore. You are one love.

Thank you

eric

, ErcAshfrd@a... wrote:

When you can be this,

you will know that you never had to become it.

....Oh Eric, my Brother in This Love,

how stunningly you have said it! This poem is simply the most

delicious Nectar, isn't it, and that you have opened to allow Love to

Sing through you in such majectic fashion bears vivid testimony to a

Voice that is pressing so urgently down into form from the very

HeartMind of Allah!

May it be Heard in every heart, and may it fill each hearing heart

with Gladness!

With deepest Gratitude,

LoveAlways,

b

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All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights,

perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and

subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not

different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of

the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always

Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart

to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the

Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It

Self. Welcome all to a.

Your use of is subject to

[Guest guest]

, Wim Borsboom <wim@a...> wrote:

 

I was wondering...is there something similar *nowadays*

in the current Hindu Buddhist teachings?

 

 

.....Dear Wim and all,

 

We no longer need look for historical precedent in the established

legacies to mirror or confirm the Blessing dawning now within the

collective. Our confirmation is in the heart. We indeed represent a

new paradigm, a unique evolution of This Loving.

Echart Tolle once compared what is happening today to the development

of flowers on earth. For millions of years plants grew, but only

after countless generations did the first flower appear. It was a

rare occurrance indeed, and there was a long time before the next,

and then the next, but eventually plants began to flower everywhere,

and today it is simply what most plants do. Just so, it was a long

time before Krishna appeared, as the flower of humanity, and then a

long time still until the Buddha, and then Jesus, and so forth, and

now we are witnessing a vast awakening dawning throughout the world,

but it is not confined any longer to single rare individuals, but is

taking place within the collective itself, and so This Loving is

manifesting and expressing Itself in a way that It has never done

before -- and we see it all around us, in the way that Awareness is

waking up to Itself as us. We are the first wave, indeed, of a

planetary Blossoming that is staggering in proportion, and the

evidence of this is being confirmed by the abundance of teachers now

appearing, who in turn are bearing witness to just such a collective

shift. The Internet is certainly a contributing factor in the

exponential math of this. Rupert Sheldrake noted this in

his "Hundredth Monkey" hypothesis, but we need no academic modelling,

for we can observe within ourselves and our intimate and communal

relations how this Breeze is blowing.

An interesting book that i recall mentioning here before speaks of

this "phenomenon": "The Awakening West", by Lynn Marie Lumiere and

John Lumiere Wyns (students of Adyashanti), who have interviewed 20

prominent Teachers now active in the west, and all confirm that this

awakening is spreading at an unprecendented rate.

Dear Wim -- i so loved what you have shared, and i am so grateful for

all these many Blessings blooming in our Satsang here!

 

LoveAlways,

 

b

[Guest guest]

, ErcAshfrd@a... wrote:

 

When you can be this,

you will know that you never had to become it.

 

 

....Oh Eric, my Brother in This Love,

 

how stunningly you have said it! This poem is simply the most

delicious Nectar, isn't it, and that you have opened to allow Love to

Sing through you in such majectic fashion bears vivid testimony to a

Voice that is pressing so urgently down into form from the very

HeartMind of Allah!

May it be Heard in every heart, and may it fill each hearing heart

with Gladness!

 

With deepest Gratitude,

 

LoveAlways,

 

b

[Guest guest]

Hi B.,

 

I agree with your viewpoint about the blossoming of people today. I

feel that there is no "avatar" that is coming to "save" us all from

ourselves. Each person is the "avatar".

 

Noting that there is this blossoming, there seems to be a massive

resistence in the lives of those who are conditioning to living

inside the box of their culture and their religions (as distinguished

from their spirituality). The concommitant is that there is no

security in organization, and so each one must (that is a "must") dig

deeply within themselves and find truth, love and Self -- and share

that.

 

The resisters of the blossoms of Love are both old and brand-new

souls who don't handle change well at all.

 

To fail to see and address the resistence in meaningful and

compassionate ways means much more suffering to come. The flower

children of the 60s were blown away by the guns of Kent State.

Sweetness and light can be as illusionary as violence and darkness.

Both are at work in the world.

 

Naturally we are doing what we can to feed the "light", but

the "darkness" is being overlooked in our wish for sweetness and

light to win. The real question is how best to achieve the meaningful

spreading of Love and Light to promote change in that direction.

 

The resistence is not just in the violence of the world, but it

occurs in govenments, in business, in education, etc. I was active in

the 60s and I watched the ideals fade in the 70s and 80s and 90s --

and we see the harvest today. Even the churches are not immune from

the resistence to Love! Surprise.

 

What do we do? consistent with our ideals? and our discovery of Self?

 

John L.

Those who do not pay attention to history are doomed to repeat it.

 

, "hrtbeat7" <hrtbeat7> wrote:

> , Wim Borsboom <wim@a...> wrote:

>

> I was wondering...is there something similar *nowadays*

> in the current Hindu Buddhist teachings?

>

> ....Dear Wim and all,

>

> We no longer need look for historical precedent in the established

> legacies to mirror or confirm the Blessing dawning now within the

> collective. Our confirmation is in the heart. We indeed represent a

> new paradigm, a unique evolution of This Loving.

[Guest guest]

, "hrtbeat7" <hrtbeat7> wrote:

> , Wim Borsboom <wim@a...> wrote:

 

Beloved Robert,

 

i might say "ditto", but then, it doesn't contain the Ditto-ness

fully enough. So, Darlin', how 'bout, "You're really quite Beautiful

today, Mashuq!" Got a date tonight? i might be free, let me check my

little black book, and i'll get back to You. You talk so perty like

and such, so keep talkin' Baby! And as to Darling Wimji, well, i just

Love him like a starfish loves the tidepools!

 

Respectfully,

 

Mazie Lane

>

> I was wondering...is there something similar *nowadays*

> in the current Hindu Buddhist teachings?

>

>

> ....Dear Wim and all,

>

> We no longer need look for historical precedent in the established

> legacies to mirror or confirm the Blessing dawning now within the

> collective. Our confirmation is in the heart. We indeed represent a

> new paradigm, a unique evolution of This Loving.

> Echart Tolle once compared what is happening today to the

development

> of flowers on earth. For millions of years plants grew, but only

> after countless generations did the first flower appear. It was a

> rare occurrance indeed, and there was a long time before the next,

> and then the next, but eventually plants began to flower

everywhere,

> and today it is simply what most plants do. Just so, it was a long

> time before Krishna appeared, as the flower of humanity, and then a

> long time still until the Buddha, and then Jesus, and so forth, and

> now we are witnessing a vast awakening dawning throughout the

world,

> but it is not confined any longer to single rare individuals, but

is

> taking place within the collective itself, and so This Loving is

> manifesting and expressing Itself in a way that It has never done

> before -- and we see it all around us, in the way that Awareness is

> waking up to Itself as us. We are the first wave, indeed, of a

> planetary Blossoming that is staggering in proportion, and the

> evidence of this is being confirmed by the abundance of teachers

now

> appearing, who in turn are bearing witness to just such a

collective

> shift. The Internet is certainly a contributing factor in the

> exponential math of this. Rupert Sheldrake noted this in

> his "Hundredth Monkey" hypothesis, but we need no academic

modelling,

> for we can observe within ourselves and our intimate and communal

> relations how this Breeze is blowing.

> An interesting book that i recall mentioning here before speaks of

> this "phenomenon": "The Awakening West", by Lynn Marie Lumiere and

> John Lumiere Wyns (students of Adyashanti), who have interviewed 20

> prominent Teachers now active in the west, and all confirm that

this

> awakening is spreading at an unprecendented rate.

> Dear Wim -- i so loved what you have shared, and i am so grateful

for

> all these many Blessings blooming in our Satsang here!

>

> LoveAlways,

>

> b

[Guest guest]

, "johnrloganis" <johnrloganis> wrote:

 

 

What do we do? consistent with our ideals? and our discovery of Self?

 

 

.....Dear John, my Brother,

 

Thank for an extremely pertinent and articulate post! Your thought-

provoking comments can be addressed from several angles, but two

responses considerations come to the surface as i enter into this

inquiry with you.

i too have been quite active in "the movement" during the generations

you speak of, and i can testify that Kent State, etc. did not end

this ever-mounting wave at all. Certainly, things have changed, as

they must, but i would note that all of that youthful energy has

become quite focused, and has profoundly affected our world and

lifestyle on so very many fronts, including the growing spiritual (as

differentiated from religious) awakening.

Of course, "the bigger the front the bigger the back", and the shadow

element you have observed, the resistance, is certainly unavoidably

obvious. In pragmatic terms, there is something that can be done. I

am speaking here along Ramesh Balsekar's line that, although there is

no choice, no doer, we must act "as if" there is. What is evedent to

myself and my intimates, and has been reiterated by every authentic

teacher i have encountered, is that the best thing we can do in the

face of the world's resistance and recoil is to WAKE UP, first and

foremost. This is the most powerful force for positive change there

is, and "Right Action" follows from this. Remember, again, that Right

Action does not depend exclusively on having awoken, but certainly

corresponds harmoniously with coming to rest in our True Nature.

As we come to recognize that we are in fact being Lived, and that we

are being Lived by the most incomprehensible Love, then This Love

is "communicated", or transmitted, and the math is observable, as you

i am sure have witnessed in your own life. Just so, as this awakening

spreads, there will be (and is, even now) an exponential quality to

it that will far exceed our limited imaginations.

In my own case, in the early 70's i helped found the East Coast

Division of what has come to be known as Whole Foods Supermarkets (a

multi-billion dollar company). At the time, we were not taken very

seriously by the conventional supermarket industry, which is now

falling all over itself attempting to figure out how we do it, and so

it goes. You can now find Natural & Organic products almost

everywhere, although back in those days we were laughed off as kooks

(not cooks).

 

LoveAlways,

 

b

[Guest guest]

, "mazie_l" <sraddha54@h...> wrote:

 

Got a date tonight?

 

 

 

.....Dear Ms. Lane,

 

i am sure something can be arranged.

(i'll check with my secretary and get back to you.)

 

perhaps we could do dinner and review your portfolio, if you have no

other Pressing engagements?

 

Sincerely,

 

b

[Guest guest]

, ErcAshfrd@a... wrote:

> I can't tell your voice from Mazies anymore. You are one love.

 

There Is No Other

 

The Heart of Relationship

 

Awakening to the truth of perfect Unity, means to awaken from the

dream of a personal self and personal others to the realization that

there is no other. Many spiritual seekers have had glimpses of the

absolute unity of all existence, but few are capable of or willing to

live up to the many challenging implications inherent in that

revelation. The revelation of perfect unity, that there is no other,

is a realization of the ultimate impersonality of all that seems to

be so very personal. Applying this realization to the arena of

personal relationships is something that most seekers find extremely

challenging, and is the number one reason why so many seekers never

come completely to rest in the freedom of the Self Absolute.

Inherent in the revelation of perfect unity is the realization that

there is no personal me, no personal other, and therefore no personal

relationships. Coming to terms with the challenging implications of

this stunning realization is something that few people are willing to

do. Because realizing the true impersonality of all that seems so

personal, challenges every aspect of the illusion of a separate,

personal self. It challenges the entire structure of personal

relationships which are born of needs, wants, and expectations. It is

in the arena of personal relationships that the illusion of a

separate self clings most tenaciously and insidiously. Indeed, there

is nothing that derails more spiritual seekers than the grasping at

and attaching to personal relationships.

 

The revelation of perfect unity reveals the true impersonality of all

relationships. The ego always interprets "impersonal" as meaning

cold, distant, and aloof. However, "impersonal" simply means not

personal, or void of a separate me and a separate you. The mind

cannot comprehend of a relationship without separate entities. Much

as a character in a dream cannot comprehend that all other dream

characters are simply manifestations of the same dreamer. Yet when

the dreamer awakens, he instantly comprehends that the entire dream,

and all the characters in it, were none other than projections of his

own self. In the dream there is the appearance of separate, personal

entities in relationship, but upon awakening one comprehends the

impersonal (non-separate) Self that is the source of all appearances.

 

To deeply inquire into the question "Who is another?" can lead to the

direct experience that the other is one's own Self—that in fact there

is no other. However, I have seen that for most seekers, even this

direct experiential revelation is not enough to transform the

painfully personal ways they relate. To come to this profound

transformation requires a very deep investigation into the

implications inherent within the experiential revelation that there

is no other. It is in the daily living of these implications that

most seekers fail. Why? Because, fundamentally, most people want to

remain separate and in control. Simply put, most people want to keep

dreaming that they are special, unique, and separate, more than they

want to wake up to the perfect unity of an Unknown which leaves no

room from any separation from the whole.

 

There is a powerful tendency in most spiritual seekers to avoid

probing deeply into the implications inherent within profound

spiritual experience and revelation, because these implications are

always threatening to the sense of a separate self, or ego. It is the

implications inherent within profound spiritual revelation that

demand the transformation of the apparent individual.

 

Inherent within the revelation of perfect unity is the realization

that there is no other. The implications of this realization reveal

that in order to manifest that unity in the relative world, one must

renounce the dream of being a separate self seeking to obtain

anything through relationship with another. Indeed, personal

relationship appears to happen in the relative world, but in reality,

all appearances simply arise as temporary manifestations of a unified

whole. In the relative world these appearances are in relationship,

but not as separate entities. Rather, they are the play of the one

Self projecting itself as apparent entities in relationship to one

another.

 

As long as you identify yourself with the projection of separateness,

you will continue to deny that you are the Source of all projections.

When you truly and absolutely awaken to this fact, and comprehend the

overwhelming implications inherent within this awakening, you will

continually experience that all apparently personal relationships are

in truth nothing other than the play of your Self. To realize that

the personal me is an illusion born of false identification with the

body, thoughts, and emotions, brings a profound sense of freedom.

This is fundamentally the realization of emptiness, of what you are

not. But contained within the realization of emptiness (formlessness)

is also the realization of what you ARE. In the most absolute sense

you ARE this conscious emptiness which is the source of all

appearances (existence). But you are the appearance as well. Not just

one part of the appearance called "me", but all of it , the entire

whole. This is the challenge, to let your view get this vast. To let

your view get so vast that your identity disappears. Then you realize

that there is no other, and there is nothing personal going on.

 

Contrary to the way the ego will view such a realization, it is in

reality the birth of true love. A love which is free of all

boundaries and fear. To the ego such uncontaminated love is

unbearable in its intimacy. When there is no clear separating

boundaries and nothing to gain the ego becomes disinterested, angry,

or frightened. In a love where there is no other there is nowhere to

hide, no one to control, and nothing to gain. It is the coming

together of appearances in the beautiful dance of the SELF called

Love.

 

To the seeker who is sincere, an experiential glimpse of this

possibility is not enough. If you are sincere you will find it within

yourself to go far beyond any glimpse. You will find within your Self

the courage to let go of the known and dive deeply into the Unknown

heart of a mystery that calls you only to itself.

 

~Adyashanti

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Yes, Indeed.

Curiously that is why my wife and I are busy developing farmers

markets in Arizona -- and our growers are all local, pesticide free

and many wholly organic (actually organic works better in the Arizona

desert than the methods of agribusiness). The main problem is size

(How do you compost a 2000 acre field?) and distribution.

 

The real estate developers and population growth are driving out

farms so fast we cannot keep farmers in our markets very well.

Hopefully this will lead to a resurgence of the "home gardening"

movement, like the Victory Gardens of World War II. The best

distribution system therefore is local. As soon as you transport

tomatoes in a refrigerated truck one has already spoiled the taste

and nutrition of the tomato. And time and distance does essential the

same thing for most foods.

 

Our growers produce tastes better and is more nutritious than even

the organic offerings from Trader Joe's and Wild Oats, when most of

their "organic produce" comes to Arizona from California.

 

Overall I agree with everything in your post. And what you have

indicated is true. Your remarks stimulate me into investigating the

works of Ramesh Balsekar. I have seen some books of his, but have

focussed on Krishnamurti, Ramana Maharshi, and Poonja, with a little

work in Toni Packer's material.

 

I had been in Buddhism (with a long background in philosophical

Taoism) and got tired of all the accretions to the Dharma. Started

looking for the core, and found it in Advaita Vedanta. It is amazing

how much of what the Buddhists had and are now missing is in the

Ribhu Gita (as recommended by Ramana Maharshi). Most Buddhists don't

study the sources which lie in the background of the Buddha's

realizations and so have thrown the baby out with the bath water (as

they say), IMHO. The modern Advaitists seem to reveal that original

core.

 

The testimony in my life is that in the Buddhist approach I was

working very, very hard, and dangling on the edge in some of the Zen

approaches, in works such as the teachings of Bankei, of a serene

consciousness. In a short time working with K., R. M., and Papaji I

am experiencing that serenity that was out there like a dangling

carrot before a donkey and my reactivity has dissapated incredibly.

 

I was not arguing with you but Krishnamurti points out that we must

not fall into the trap of only sweetness because the human condition

includes the bitter as well -- and it must be examined and gone into

deeply.

 

Religious fundamentalists and extremists of all kinds are troubling,

and the events in places like the Sudan are of concern, and the

people of Mexico who are crossing our borders -- and bringing the

same consciousness with them which got them into the very bad

situation that exists in Mexico also troubles me. I see in my own

neighborhood the Mexican machismo affecting the life of our city and

it is producing the same poverty consciousness (that includes the so-

called rich of Mexico as well as the poor) that exists in Mexico.

 

I agree that awakening precedes "right action" -- and my immediate

action is to continue my own wakening process and to support the

healthy nutrition of the people of my community while sharing what I

can wherever I am. My voice isn't very loud so far.

 

Nameste,

John L.

 

 

, "hrtbeat7" <hrtbeat7> wrote:

> , "johnrloganis" <johnrloganis>

wrote:

>

>

> What do we do? consistent with our ideals? and our discovery of

Self?

>

>

> ....Dear John, my Brother,

>

> Thank for an extremely pertinent and articulate post! Your thought-

> provoking comments can be addressed from several angles, but two

> responses considerations come to the surface as i enter into this

> inquiry with you.

[Guest guest]

, "johnrloganis" <johnrloganis> wrote:

 

.....Dear John, my Brother,

 

Thank you for sharing so much of your life and interests here, and i

certainly respect what you are doing -- it is a much-valued

undertaking and is true service! as noted, i have spent many years

working directly with farmers interested in establishing sustainable,

natural agricultural production, and am well aware of the struggle

(as well as the joy and satisfaction) this vocation involves. Thank

you for your efforts! what i am about to share below may seem

paradoxical, but life often seems that way, so here's a little

marshmallow for the fire:

 

You wrote:

The testimony in my life is that in the Buddhist approach I was

working very, very hard, and dangling on the edge in some of the Zen

approaches, in works such as the teachings of Bankei, of a serene

consciousness. In a short time working with K., R. M., and Papaji I

am experiencing that serenity that was out there like a dangling

carrot before a donkey and my reactivity has dissapated incredibly.

 

....sounds a bit like Katherine Ingram's story (she was a prominent

Buddhist for 25 years before discovering Papaji).

over the last 40 years, i have investigated many approaches and, for

what it is worth, have come to question the premise of all

approaches. in this ongoing inquiry, much has been revealed, much has

been released, and yet, it has become unmistakably clear and obvious

to me that all approaches, regardless of their founding principle and

modifications, are based upon a particular assumption. as i inquire

deeper into them, i find that any and every approach has beautiful

qualities, and yet are all ultimately worthless. as soon as one steps

one foot upon a path, they have already abandoned that to which they

hope and believe the approach will deliver them. for one example,

during two years spent in a Zen monastery, it was observed that all

the talk about "no gaining idea" was consistently undermined and

contradicted by the most desperate methods to "not gain".

i certainly am not here to attempt to dissuade anybody from

their "preferred poison", and of course many arguments can be made

for any particular school or way, and this has gone on for centuries.

my only suggestion is to find out for oneself. if the love of Freedom

is strong enough, and more Attractive than any other possibility,

Truth will inevitably reveal Itself, but it will be nothing like the

seeker has imagined it would be, for the first thing that disappears

is the seeker. then it gets really interesting! :-))

 

 

>I was not arguing with you but Krishnamurti points out that we must

not fall into the trap of only sweetness because the human condition

includes the bitter as well -- and it must be examined and gone into

deeply.

 

....there is neither sweetness nor bitterness, except in the

imagination. there is no trap to fall into, except that which we

create in our addiction to the belief in an independent self that

needs to be manipulated into a different state. the so-called human

condition exists in the same way that worlds and people within dreams

exist. but please, don't take my word for this, nor anyone else's

either.

 

 

LoveAlways,

 

b

[Guest guest]

, "mazie_l" <sraddha54@h...> wrote:

> ...there is neither sweetness nor bitterness, except in the

> imagination. there is no trap to fall into, except that which we

> create in our addiction to the belief in an independent self that

> needs to be manipulated into a different state. the so-called human

> condition exists in the same way that worlds and people within

dreams

> exist. but please, don't take my word for this, nor anyone else's

> either.

>

>

> LoveAlways,

>

> b

 

Right!

 

John L.

But don't take my word for that either.