Guest guest Posted June 24, 2002 Report Share Posted June 24, 2002 Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya Namaste Sri JB, Well, it is true that the teachings say you should not be attached nor have desire of any kind. However, there will always be desire as long as the person is not yet self-realized. Monks, though putting forth a lot of effert to reach this goal, are not yet in this state. I couldn't imagine though monks having this much of a desire, i wonder what happened there. Namo Ramana Prem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2002 Report Share Posted June 24, 2002 Your comments reminded me of a movie I've heard of but never seen. Below is a review of it that I found on the internet. I wonder if anyone on this list saw the film? Love, Maggie Movie Review by Frederic and Mary Ann Brussat The Cup Khyentse Norbu New Line 01/00 VHS Not Rated The Abbot at a Tibetan monastery in India during the summer of 1998 has his bags packed. Even though he is the head of this religious institution, he's attached to the dream of returning to his beloved homeland that is occupied by the Chinese. The Abbot happily receives the brother and the younger son of a woman who has sent them from Tibet to get a Buddhist education as monks. Although every attempt has been made to keep everyone's attention focused on tradition at the monastery, the modern world has intruded on the consciousness of several young monks. Orgyen (Jamyang Lodro) and his best friend Lodo (Neten Chokling) are obsessed with soccer and secretly sneak off to watch a televised game. These two are seen as troublemakers by Geko (Orgyen Tobgyal), the Abbot's right hand man and chief disciplinarian. When the two young monks learn that the champion World Cup soccer game between Brazil and France is going to be broadcast, they ask for permission to rent a satellite dish. Much to their surprise, they get the go-ahead, and their adventure to arrange for the big evening gets underway. The Cup is the first feature film made in Bhutan. Its writer and director Khyentse Norbu is a prominent lama in the Tibetan Buddhist tradition who served as spiritual advisor to Bernardo Bertolucci on the set of Little Buddha. Inspired by true events, this endearing drama is a playful parable about loving others and giving up one's attachments. Buddhist monasteries are workshops for monks to help reduce clinging. The Abbot and Geko are both teachers and students of this process. So are the young soccer fans. Orgyen, who is almost fanatical about the game, sets up a heartbreak in one of the new Tibetan monks while he is desperately pursuing his goal. Through this experience, he learns that compassion, the softening of the heart, is the most important spiritual practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2002 Report Share Posted June 24, 2002 Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya Namaste, Really? I never even knew theyw ere full of worldly people. I thought only serious spiritual people who put forth a great amount of effert were in them. Hmm.. Namo Ramana Prem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2002 Report Share Posted June 24, 2002 Hello: In response to your thoughtful question, many apparent Buddhists just like many apparent Christians haven't a clue about what their religion is really about. Most people, of any religious background, adhere to the exoteric version of their childhood religion and are completely devoid of understanding of it's deeper purpose and practice. Mark Hi, In connection with South Kores's winning recently a football game, I've seen on TV, a program on the enthusiasm expressed at a Buddhist monastary in South Korea. The monks were elated.. in the meditation hall, a big TV screen was hung up..between all the Buddha statues and colorful religious milieu.. the game was on.. the monks were jumping up and down very happy.. A monk, who was interviwed said that he prayed very very much for their team to win .. another monk said that he was very happy that his country was winning,.. so his country will become more known to the world. .... Their president, has declared that this was the happiest day in the history of South Korea, during the last 500 years. (the event also helped to bury the recent jailing of his 2 sons for business with drugs, and restore the leader's respectability). .... In the streets, people were celebrating... a young man.. apparently ecstatic.. and with his face painted with his country's flag.. was loudly yelling : " MY Country..!... Myyyyyyy country !!!!" And I was wondering, .. whatever happened to Buddha's teaching of non- craving, detachement, non-identification, and no desire for personal fame.. etc. ?! Well,.. a sign the modern times, I guess.. and its split personality .. or perhaps, it has always been like this... also 2.500 years ago... Regards, Jb Post message: RamanaMaharshi Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi- Un: RamanaMaharshi- List owner: RamanaMaharshi-owner Shortcut URL to this page: /community/RamanaMaharshi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2002 Report Share Posted June 24, 2002 Hello Prem: Why not? Being classified as a monk doesn't mean someone is doing a real spiritual practice. Monasteries are filled with worldly people who don't practice, I've seen them. A yogi I once studied with warned people entering his ashram not to trust everyone just because they lived there. He used to say that even devils live in ashrams. Of course, he meant that figuratively but I think the message is clear. I'm not comparing these monks to devils but for anyone to claim that they prayed for the success of a sports team reveals a significant weakness in their understanding of spiritual practice. Mark Namaste Sri JB, Well, it is true that the teachings say you should not be attached nor have desire of any kind. However, there will always be desire as long as the person is not yet self-realized. Monks, though putting forth a lot of effert to reach this goal, are not yet in this state. I couldn't imagine though monks having this much of a desire, i wonder what happened there. Namo Ramana Prem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2002 Report Share Posted June 24, 2002 Hi, In connection with South Kores's winning recently a football game, I've seen on TV, a program on the enthusiasm expressed at a Buddhist monastary in South Korea. The monks were elated.. in the meditation hall, a big TV screen was hung up..between all the Buddha statues and colorful religious milieu.. the game was on.. the monks were jumping up and down very happy.. A monk, who was interviwed said that he prayed very very much for their team to win .. another monk said that he was very happy that his country was winning,.. so his country will become more known to the world. .... Their president, has declared that this was the happiest day in the history of South Korea, during the last 500 years. (the event also helped to bury the recent jailing of his 2 sons for business with drugs, and restore the leader's respectability). .... In the streets, people were celebrating... a young man.. apparently ecstatic.. and with his face painted with his country's flag.. was loudly yelling : " MY Country..!... Myyyyyyy country !!!!" And I was wondering, .. whatever happened to Buddha's teaching of non- craving, detachement, non-identification, and no desire for personal fame.. etc. ?! Well,.. a sign the modern times, I guess.. and its split personality .. or perhaps, it has always been like this... also 2.500 years ago... Regards, Jb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2002 Report Share Posted June 24, 2002 A monk who acts just like a human being. Imagine that! What happened to Buddha's teaching is that it is only real when *you* aren't attached, including not attaching to ideas of what monks should act like ... There's only one who is attached, and when unattached, there's no one else ... -- Dan > Hi, > > In connection with South Kores's winning recently a football game, > I've seen on TV, a program on the enthusiasm expressed at a Buddhist > monastary in South Korea. > > The monks were elated.. in the meditation hall, a big TV screen was > hung up..between all the Buddha statues and colorful religious > milieu.. the game was on.. the monks were jumping up and down very > happy.. > A monk, who was interviwed said that he prayed very very much for > their team to win .. > another monk said that he was very happy that his country was > winning,.. so his country will become more known to the world. > ... > Their president, has declared that this was the happiest day in the > history of South Korea, during the last 500 years. > (the event also helped to bury the recent jailing of his 2 sons for > business with drugs, and restore the leader's respectability). > ... > In the streets, people were celebrating... > a young man.. apparently ecstatic.. and with his face painted with > his country's flag.. was loudly yelling : > " MY Country..!... Myyyyyyy country !!!!" > > And I was wondering, .. whatever happened to Buddha's teaching of non- > craving, detachement, non-identification, and no desire for personal > fame.. etc. ?! > > Well,.. a sign the modern times, I guess.. and its split > personality .. > or perhaps, it has always been like this... > also 2.500 years ago... > > Regards, > Jb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2002 Report Share Posted June 24, 2002 Games, just like card games that originated from Tarot, and checkers and chess and even "hopscotch"... had always to do with luck... and chance... but also with "reading the signs" of what future could bring based on manoeuvres of the past... Signals from the past as signposts for the future Notice the patterns in a soccer ball... That is not for nothing... Tennis was a re-invention in the baroque age with a very specific meaning... There is a wonderful painting of that by Tiepolo. The current meanings of "luck" and "chance" especially in the west, and the oriental and pre-contemporary meanings of those words do not exactly cover each other... The way the ball rolls and the cookie crumbles.... There is more to it.. Wim --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release 6/5/2002 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2002 Report Share Posted June 24, 2002 You've apparently never been to any. I have and have even consulted for some. Hmmmm, very naive. Mark Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya Namaste, Really? I never even knew theyw ere full of worldly people. I thought only serious spiritual people who put forth a great amount of effert were in them. Hmm.. Namo Ramana Prem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2002 Report Share Posted June 24, 2002 Hmmm I don't know Buddhist monasteries from inside but some christian monasteries (having lived there for some time). There I have found all, but mostly very deep spirituality. Wondering if they don't sit also at the TV in those days and watching football... Gabriele (kicking the ball back) RamanaMaharshi, "Mark" <milarepa@a...> wrote: > > You've apparently never been to any. I have and have even consulted for some. > Hmmmm, very naive. > > > Mark > > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya > > Namaste, > > Really? I never even knew theyw ere full of worldly people. I thought only > serious spiritual people who put forth a great amount of effert were in them. > Hmm.. > > Namo Ramana > > Prem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2002 Report Share Posted June 24, 2002 Gabriele: I don't know what to tell you. >From what I've read and heard, many Buddhist monks become that way because it's considered a respectable, secure job. In fact, Dogen Zenji, one of the most famous Buddhist masters, set about to reform his sect because he felt the teaching of Zen was lost. It's also believed that he died from poisoning from an enemy within the monastery. The sixth patriarch of Zen had to escape his monastery because he was to become the next successor over someone who thought they had the honor and who sent people to kill the sixth patriarch so he wouldn't take the role. Of course, you can read the paper about all the sexual abuse troubles that catholic priests have. I'm not putting these places or people down, I'm saying that we must have discrimination when dealing with anyone, robe or no robe. Human beings are human beings no matter where they reside and there is no place "out there" that's truly spiritual . From what I've observed, the only true holy place is the place where Bhagavan is right now and where we inquire into when we practice, everything else is projected illusion. Mark Hmmm I don't know Buddhist monasteries from inside but some christian monasteries (having lived there for some time). There I have found all, but mostly very deep spirituality. Wondering if they don't sit also at the TV in those days and watching football... Gabriele (kicking the ball back) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2002 Report Share Posted June 24, 2002 Yes, dear Mark, I see what you are pointing to and I agree. In different cultures monestry are given different importance. Here it is not such a respectable one anymore. I only was reminded on my own very positive experiences with monestries. I have the great luck to have met in my life many of nuns and monks with true dedication to spirituality, which helped me a lot on the path. I know that others have perhaps not so positive experiences. The only what I want to point to is not to generalize. But as you say so beautifully, the "real holy place is where Bhagavan is now" - yes, and nothing to add to this. In HIM Gabriele RamanaMaharshi, "Mark" <milarepa@a...> wrote: > > Gabriele: > > I don't know what to tell you. > From what I've read and heard, many Buddhist monks become that > way because it's considered a respectable, secure job. In fact, Dogen > Zenji, one of the most famous Buddhist masters, set about to reform > his sect because he felt the teaching of Zen was lost. It's also believed > that he died from poisoning from an enemy within the monastery. > The sixth patriarch of Zen had to escape his monastery because he was > to become the next successor over someone who thought they had the > honor and who sent people to kill the sixth patriarch so he wouldn't take > the role. > Of course, you can read the paper about all the sexual abuse troubles > that catholic priests have. > I'm not putting these places or people down, I'm saying that we must > have discrimination when dealing with anyone, robe or no robe. Human > beings are human beings no matter where they reside and there is no > place "out there" that's truly spiritual . From what I've observed, the only > true holy place is the place where Bhagavan is right now and where we > inquire into when we practice, everything else is projected illusion. > > Mark > > > Hmmm > I don't know Buddhist monasteries from inside but some christian > monasteries (having lived there for some time). There I have found > all, but mostly very deep spirituality. > Wondering if they don't sit also at the TV in those days and watching > football... > > Gabriele (kicking the ball back) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2002 Report Share Posted June 24, 2002 Gabrielle: You are right of course. There certainly are dedicated monks and nuns who are very serious about their practice and I don' t want to discount their effort or disrespect them since they make continuation of their tradition possible. I also believe you have been very blessed to meet such dedicated people. Mark Yes, dear Mark, I see what you are pointing to and I agree. In different cultures monestry are given different importance. Here it is not such a respectable one anymore. I only was reminded on my own very positive experiences with monestries. I have the great luck to have met in my life many of nuns and monks with true dedication to spirituality, which helped me a lot on the path. I know that others have perhaps not so positive experiences. The only what I want to point to is not to generalize. But as you say so beautifully, the "real holy place is where Bhagavan is now" - yes, and nothing to add to this. In HIM Gabriele RamanaMaharshi, "Mark" <milarepa@a...> wrote: > > Gabriele: > > I don't know what to tell you. > From what I've read and heard, many Buddhist monks become that > way because it's considered a respectable, secure job. In fact, Dogen > Zenji, one of the most famous Buddhist masters, set about to reform > his sect because he felt the teaching of Zen was lost. It's also believed > that he died from poisoning from an enemy within the monastery. > The sixth patriarch of Zen had to escape his monastery because he was > to become the next successor over someone who thought they had the > honor and who sent people to kill the sixth patriarch so he wouldn't take > the role. > Of course, you can read the paper about all the sexual abuse troubles > that catholic priests have. > I'm not putting these places or people down, I'm saying that we must > have discrimination when dealing with anyone, robe or no robe. Human > beings are human beings no matter where they reside and there is no > place "out there" that's truly spiritual . From what I've observed, the only > true holy place is the place where Bhagavan is right now and where we > inquire into when we practice, everything else is projected illusion. > > Mark > > > Hmmm > I don't know Buddhist monasteries from inside but some christian > monasteries (having lived there for some time). There I have found > all, but mostly very deep spirituality. > Wondering if they don't sit also at the TV in those days and watching > football... > > Gabriele (kicking the ball back) Post message: RamanaMaharshi Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi- Un: RamanaMaharshi- List owner: RamanaMaharshi-owner Shortcut URL to this page: /community/RamanaMaharshi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2002 Report Share Posted June 25, 2002 Hi Maggie, welcome to the list. So glad you mentioned this. I couldn't remember the title, but the soccer posts made me think of it too. Yes, I saw the movie and loved it. We should have more movies made by llamas! And I especially liked that there were no actors, all the roles were done by actual monks. This gave the movie such a different quality. Worth seeing. To be fair to the "young monks" - the monasteries in Tibetan culture are the main source of education for all boys. They haven't actually taken the vows of the older monks yet. Kids are kids, everywhere. In case anyone hasn't heard yet about Netflix, it's worth buying a DVD just to use this service. You can get as many movies as you can handle for the monthly fee, no late fees, no trips to a video store. And the selection is way more than a video store could stock. All done by computer and mail. Gloria - chezahmed (AT) aol (DOT) com Monday, June 24, 2002 12:01 PM Re: Buddhism and football.. Hi Jb,Your comments reminded me of a movie I've heard of but never seen. Below is a review of it that I found on the internet. I wonder if anyone on this list saw the film?Love,MaggieMovie Reviewby Frederic and Mary Ann BrussatThe Cup Khyentse NorbuNew Line 01/00 VHS Not Rated The Abbot at a Tibetan monastery in India during the summer of 1998 has his bags packed. Even though he is the head of this religious institution, he's attached to the dream of returning to his beloved homeland that is occupied by the Chinese. The Abbot happily receives the brother and the younger son of a woman who has sent them from Tibet to get a Buddhist education as monks.Although every attempt has been made to keep everyone's attention focused on tradition at the monastery, the modern world has intruded on the consciousness of several young monks. Orgyen (Jamyang Lodro) and his best friend Lodo (Neten Chokling) are obsessed with soccer and secretly sneak off to watch a televised game. These two are seen as troublemakers by Geko (Orgyen Tobgyal), the Abbot's right hand man and chief disciplinarian.When the two young monks learn that the champion World Cup soccer game between Brazil and France is going to be broadcast, they ask for permission to rent a satellite dish. Much to their surprise, they get the go-ahead, and their adventure to arrange for the big evening gets underway.The Cup is the first feature film made in Bhutan. Its writer and director Khyentse Norbu is a prominent lama in the Tibetan Buddhist tradition who served as spiritual advisor to Bernardo Bertolucci on the set of Little Buddha. Inspired by true events, this endearing drama is a playful parable about loving others and giving up one's attachments. Buddhist monasteries are workshops for monks to help reduce clinging. The Abbot and Geko are both teachers and students of this process. So are the young soccer fans. Orgyen, who is almost fanatical about the game, sets up a heartbreak in one of the new Tibetan monks while he is desperately pursuing his goal. Through this experience, he learns that compassion, the softening of the heart, is the most important spiritual practice. /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a.Your use of is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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