Guest guest Posted June 29, 2002 Report Share Posted June 29, 2002 one. not two not you not me not we yet me with you and them and us and those folks too. one one two three one counter, one counting in one world standing shouting as the logic streams in circles as one looks for one's streamsource of mind! to find, not one, not none empty and limitless the tears another sheds are in one's own eyes and all that is left is a question, 'how may i help you?' for without an i, what else can possibly matter? maitri, --janpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 2002 Report Share Posted June 29, 2002 Yes Janpa Wim Debora A. Orf [dorf01] Friday, June 28, 2002 8:17 PM one? one. not two not you not me not we yet me with you and them and us and those folks too. one one two three one counter, one counting in one world standing shouting as the logic streams in circles as one looks for one's streamsource of mind! to find, not one, not none empty and limitless the tears another sheds are in one's own eyes and all that is left is a question, 'how may i help you?' for without an i, what else can possibly matter? maitri, --janpa /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. Your use of is subject to --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release 6/5/2002 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release 6/5/2002 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 2002 Report Share Posted June 29, 2002 , "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01@m...> wrote: ......and all that is left is a question, 'how may i help you?' perhaps remember who is helping and who is being helped? that would be most excellent help indeed! and perhaps that nothing ever needed any help, and yet Help mysteriously appears? what a curiosity, wouldn't you agree? and then "So help me God!" becomes a curioser plea, eh? LoveAlways, b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 2002 Report Share Posted June 29, 2002 On 6/29/02 at 7:34 AM mazie_l wrote: º, "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01@m...> wrote: º º.....and all that is left is a question, º º'how may i help you?' º º ºperhaps remember who is helping and ºwho is being helped? As if arguments could make a difference! Would it be helpful to be reminded of the fact that lovers are but sensory phenomena? ºthat would be most excellent help indeed! ºand perhaps that nothing ever needed any help, ºand yet Help mysteriously appears? Often, the most extreme suffering is the greatest help when it ceases without getting substituted (by what now purposely is labeled "emotional fluff"): pure emptiness (pristine mind) then shines and all apparitions have lost their former power. ºwhat a curiosity, wouldn't you agree? ºand then "So help me God!" becomes a ºcurioser plea, eh? The French proverb says "Aide toi et Dieu t'aidera". (Translation: "help yourself and (then) God will help you") Peace, Jan º º º ºLoveAlways, º ºb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 2002 Report Share Posted June 29, 2002 On Sat, 29 Jun 2002, mazie_l wrote: > , "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01@m...> wrote: > > .....and all that is left is a question, > > 'how may i help you?' > > > > > perhaps remember who is helping and > who is being helped? two sides of the same puzzle that is. Logically, if one creates you, then one also creates me. if one is helping and another being helped, then there is a seperation, when at its most encompassing core, there is only 'helping', the function without differentiating the objects of the functional action. we create 'one being helped' and 'one helping', but what is really happening here? Helping is happeneing here. > that would be most excellent help indeed! > and perhaps that nothing ever needed any help, > and yet Help mysteriously appears? > what a curiosity, wouldn't you agree? > and then "So help me God!" becomes a > curioser plea, eh? i would challenge you to penetrate the concept of God, and of Help and of any other capitalized word. I'd like to know what is found. i admit i don't like those type of words. It seems to me that all they do is create another seperation of the ego and the reality that it functions in. I always wonder what concept is hitting the minds of people who say 'God'. 'how may i help you' is a relative response to an absolute idea. We operate in the world of cause and condition, we think and communicate in that world as well. 'how may i help you' is from the last frame of the 10 Ox-herding pictures of Zen, and I admit this is my own interpretation of the idea in those pictures. To completely understand them, i'd probably have to speak to a Zen master, which i am not. i'm just a seeker, fairly simple-minded, not prone to emotional response. as an example, one time i ran into a Swami whose energy was strong enough to make my energy react and move. my response was a questioning of the phenomenon 'what is this, where does it come from, how does it abide, why does it go?'. a good teacher of mine once told me to hang on to my questions and penetrate their meaning with everything that has come together to be me. this eventually leads to asking who is asking so the point is simply, without a concept of me or mine or you or thine, there is no angst of an ego getting hurt. so one can truely help then that's all. this the long wordy-version if you will. maitri, --janpa ps: janpa tsomo is my Buddhist refuge name its Tibetan and losely translated janpa is close to 'maitri' in sanskrit and tsomo is something like 'lake-lady', and by poetic liscence, it becomes lady of the lake . so if you were curious why i sign-off janpa, well maybe now its a little clearer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 2002 Report Share Posted June 29, 2002 , "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01@m...> wrote: >i would challenge you to penetrate the concept of God, and of Help and of any other capitalized word. I'd like to know what is found. ...... why bother about concepts? let them penetrate themselves. i admit i don't like those type of words. It seems to me that all they do is create another seperation of the ego and the reality that it functions in. I always wonder what concept is hitting the minds of people who say 'God'. how can one separate what never existed? nor do concepts "hit minds" -- concepts are mind. >'how may i help you' is a relative response to an absolute idea. We operate in the world of cause and condition, we think and communicate in that world as well. ...... true, or more of an acquired belief? >'how may i help you' is from the last frame of the 10 Ox-herding pictures of Zen, and I admit this is my own interpretation of the idea in those pictures. To completely understand them, i'd probably have to speak to a Zen master, which i am not. ....well, i did speak to a zen master about the topic, and he told me that it would be better to read pornography. >i'm just a seeker, fairly simple-minded, not prone to emotional response. ....is that so? >as an example, one time i ran into a Swami whose energy was strong enough to make my energy react and move. my response was a questioning of the phenomenon 'what is this, where does it come from, how does it abide, why does it go?'. ..... sounds like a lot to chew on! a good teacher of mine once told me to hang on to my questions and penetrate their meaning with everything that has come together to be me. this eventually leads to asking who is asking ..... nice that you can say that with a smile! >so the point is simply, without a concept of me or mine or you or thine, there is no angst of an ego getting hurt. so one can truely help then ..... why wait? ps: janpa tsomo is my Buddhist refuge name its Tibetan and losely translated janpa is close to 'maitri' in sanskrit and tsomo is something like 'lake-lady', and by poetic liscence, it becomes lady of the lake . so if you were curious why i sign-off janpa, well maybe now its a little clearer. ...... it was clear before, but now i am not so sure. LoveAlways, b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 2002 Report Share Posted June 29, 2002 , "ecirada" <janb@a...> wrote: ºperhaps remember who is helping and ºwho is being helped? As if arguments could make a difference! Would it be helpful to be reminded of the fact that lovers are but sensory phenomena? ...... who can say? ºthat would be most excellent help indeed! ºand perhaps that nothing ever needed any help, ºand yet Help mysteriously appears? Often, the most extreme suffering is the greatest help when it ceases without getting substituted (by what now purposely is labeled "emotional fluff"): pure emptiness (pristine mind) then shines and all apparitions have lost their former power. ...... has it ever not been shining, come pain or come wine? ~Lena Horn ºwhat a curiosity, wouldn't you agree? ºand then "So help me God!" becomes a ºcurioser plea, eh? The French proverb says "Aide toi et Dieu t'aidera". (Translation: "help yourself and (then) God will help you") ...... 50,000,000 frenchmen can't be wrong! LoveAlways, b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 2002 Report Share Posted June 29, 2002 Janpa wrote: > 'how may i help you?' > so the point is simply, without a concept of me > or mine or you or thine, there is no angst of an ego > getting hurt. so one can truely help then Yes Janpa, and when it comes right down to it, I and thou exist unquestionably... There's no need that I turn away from thou and thou from me. Simple, unquestioned mutual trust and recognition is our innate and original condition. "Condition" meaning: "That, what we came with, as a given." We cannot really help it, that it seems that this original inborn condition has been made to appear conditional. Whereas the human condition is our divine nature, human conditioning on the other hand, by making things conditional, is our de-natured human nature. The first thing, to help a troubled child with, is holding out its hand again... to be held. Maitri indeed. >>> ps: janpa tsomo is my Buddhist refuge name its Tibetan and losely translated janpa is close to 'maitri' in sanskrit and tsomo is something like 'lake-lady', and by poetic liscence, it becomes lady of the lake . so if you were curious why i sign-off janpa, well maybe now its a little clearer. That helps, milady of the lake :-))) Wim "Maitri", friendship, friendliness, benevolence, good will and that, janpa, you are. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release 6/5/2002 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 2002 Report Share Posted June 29, 2002 On 6/29/02 at 7:17 PM mazie_l wrote: º, "ecirada" <janb@a...> wrote: º ººperhaps remember who is helping and ººwho is being helped? º ºAs if arguments could make a difference! ºWould it be helpful to be reminded of the fact ºthat lovers are but sensory phenomena? º º º º..... who can say? The dumb and deaf? Then the remark wouldn't be 100% speculation ;-) º º º º ººthat would be most excellent help indeed! ººand perhaps that nothing ever needed any help, ººand yet Help mysteriously appears? º ºOften, the most extreme suffering is the greatest ºhelp when it ceases without getting substituted º(by what now purposely is labeled "emotional fluff"): ºpure emptiness (pristine mind) then shines and all ºapparitions have lost their former power. º º º..... has it ever not been shining, come pain or come wine? º º~Lena Horn It's easier to detect without the emotional fluff. And then, is quite enough by itself, which is easily detectable too. º º º ººwhat a curiosity, wouldn't you agree? ººand then "So help me God!" becomes a ººcurioser plea, eh? º ºThe French proverb says "Aide toi et Dieu t'aidera". º(Translation: "help yourself and (then) God will help you") º º º..... 50,000,000 frenchmen can't be wrong! Did you ask any of them? (A matter of cautious asking, knowing the phenomenon of US creative bookkeeping and the effects of endorphines) º º ºLoveAlways, º ºb There's a perspective love easily could be wrong: when functioning as Mara's rosy_only glasses. Peace, Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 2002 Report Share Posted June 29, 2002 , "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01@m...> wrote: > > Logically, if one creates you, then one also creates me. if one is helping > and another being helped, then there is a seperation, when at its most > encompassing core, there is only 'helping', the function without > differentiating the objects of the functional action. > > we create 'one being helped' and 'one helping', but what is really > happening here? Helping is happeneing here. Exactly. Knowing what the overall picture of the whole puzzle is, while placing the pieces together. > > that would be most excellent help indeed! And most fun! > > and perhaps that nothing ever needed any help, > > and yet Help mysteriously appears? You can't have one without the other! > > what a curiosity, wouldn't you agree? Yes... Like Alice in Wonderland said 'curiouser and curiouser'. > > and then "So help me God!" becomes a > > curioser plea, eh? LOL (hey gives me something to do while in the midst of forgetting God is on the case... or another way of saying I'm in fear and reminding myself to be in love instead) Then there's the "I promise to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help me God." ('So help me God see only the truth and not all this illusionary crap that is standing in the way?') LOL > > i would challenge you to penetrate the concept of God, and of Help and of > any other capitalized word. I'd like to know what is found. i admit i > don't like those type of words. It > seems to me that all they do is create another seperation of the ego and > the reality that it functions in. I always wonder what concept is hitting > the minds of people who say 'God'. I say God. When I do, one can always stick the word Love in instead since they are the same. When I go to a Baptist Church and they talk about the devil, I transpose it to the word ego and it all makes sense. > so the point is simply, without a concept of me or mine or you or thine, > there is no angst of an ego getting hurt. so one can truely help then > > that's all. this the long wordy-version if you will. Thanks for all the words! It is so great seeing you back and having your strangely beautiful and wacky but quite meaningful poetry around once again. They always remind me of raindrops in a misty light rain that one loves to walk through. > ps: janpa tsomo is my Buddhist refuge name its Tibetan and losely > translated janpa is close to 'maitri' in sanskrit and tsomo is something > like 'lake-lady', and by poetic liscence, it becomes lady of the lake . > so if you were curious why i sign-off janpa, well maybe now its a little clearer. I didn't know this... appreciate the clarity, O'Lady of the Lake. I recently bought a CD with that title. Love, xxxtg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 2002 Report Share Posted June 29, 2002 Thanks teegee for that wonderful and celebratory response to janpa... > one can always stick the word Love in one can always!!! Wim --------- > we create 'one being helped' and 'one helping', but what is really > happening here? Helping is happeneing here. Exactly. Knowing what the overall picture of the whole puzzle is, while placing the pieces together. > > that would be most excellent help indeed! And most fun! > > and perhaps that nothing ever needed any help, > > and yet Help mysteriously appears? You can't have one without the other! > > what a curiosity, wouldn't you agree? Yes... Like Alice in Wonderland said 'curiouser and curiouser'. > > and then "So help me God!" becomes a > > curioser plea, eh? LOL (hey gives me something to do while in the midst of forgetting God is on the case... or another way of saying I'm in fear and reminding myself to be in love instead) Then there's the "I promise to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help me God." ('So help me God see only the truth and not all this illusionary crap that is standing in the way?') LOL > > i would challenge you to penetrate the concept of God, and of Help and of > any other capitalized word. I'd like to know what is found. i admit i > don't like those type of words. It > seems to me that all they do is create another seperation of the ego and > the reality that it functions in. I always wonder what concept is hitting > the minds of people who say 'God'. I say God. When I do, one can always stick the word Love in instead since they are the same. When I go to a Baptist Church and they talk about the devil, I transpose it to the word ego and it all makes sense. > so the point is simply, without a concept of me or mine or you or thine, > there is no angst of an ego getting hurt. so one can truely help then > > that's all. this the long wordy-version if you will. Thanks for all the words! It is so great seeing you back and having your strangely beautiful and wacky but quite meaningful poetry around once again. They always remind me of raindrops in a misty light rain that one loves to walk through. > ps: janpa tsomo is my Buddhist refuge name its Tibetan and losely > translated janpa is close to 'maitri' in sanskrit and tsomo is something > like 'lake-lady', and by poetic liscence, it becomes lady of the lake . > so if you were curious why i sign-off janpa, well maybe now its a little clearer. I didn't know this... appreciate the clarity, O'Lady of the Lake. I recently bought a CD with that title. Love, xxxtg /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. Your use of is subject to --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release 6/5/2002 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release 6/5/2002 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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