Guest guest Posted July 4, 2002 Report Share Posted July 4, 2002 In a message dated 07/04/2002 1:11:43 PM Pacific Daylight Time, sraddha54 writes: << "What is the stake, the investment in all of this rancor, for Zenbob?" >> and what is it for Robert? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2002 Report Share Posted July 4, 2002 Dear Brother, Perhaps it might be a kinder and wiser part of this sangha communion to leave the puberty of Alpha Male contests to the goats, eh? Perhaps then you might just stop and ask: "What is the stake, the investment in all of this rancor, for Zenbob?" Would you indulge me for a moment while I share part of a little Story here with you and all? Chapter 4 Pagan Babies (1) "We become that upon which we meditate." Muktananda At the Catholic school in which I was enrolled in the 1950's, the usual curriculum routine was occasionally set aside for "Audio- Visual" presentations. Students were gathered into the auditorium, lights were dimmed, and the whir of a film projector signaled the beginning of another movie about precautions to be observed in the event of a nuclear attack. This one was different, however. I was 9 years old, and as I watched the flickering images of babies, covered with swarming flies, dying of starvation in some country I had never heard of, my own young heart was burned. In fact, by the end of the film I was on the verge of passing out until the lights came on and an earnest missionary appeared in front of the assembled students. As I listened intently to this Soldier of Christ, the mission which was soon to dominate my life took form. In a vision of service not unlike dressing the sacred wounds of Jesus, the task before me was suddenly and undoubtedly made clear. The missionary promised that, if each student was able to somehow contribute $5.00, they would be able to adopt one of these "pagan babies". Not only would it be "saved" but, as a side benefit, each child would get to share the name of the contributor who had donated the sum. $5.00 seemed like a lot of money, but no obstacle was going to deter me in my newfound crusade. I immediately threw myself into a fervor of coin collecting. I started out using all of my milk money, but found that wasn't nearly enough. Every minute another child was dying! I began going into my father's pants pocket at night, after my parents went to sleep. Each time I would take just a few dimes or nickels to contribute, reasoning that they didn't need the money as much as the pagan babies. I approached all of my visiting relatives, as well as my parents' friends, soliciting spare change for the mission. I would search the street on my way to and from school, looking for any fallen coins that might go to the cause. There was a girl next door who walked with crutches from polio, and I offered to help her to school. When her parents inquired into my generosity, I told them of the suffering of the innocents, and they were happy to offer me a quarter each week for his help. Soon I broadened my view to include the neighborhood as potential recipients of goodwill. I began to take my bagged lunch and parcel elements of it into people's mailboxes as I walked the girl to school. I felt that it was better for me to go hungry than to have anybody else in the world go hungry. By the time I arrived at class, I had an empty bag but my heart was a little fuller. Next I got a job as a paper boy, rising when it was still dark to travel the streets delivering the news and forwarding my earnings towards the pagan babies. At sunrise, I would pause for a moment and pray to God that this new day would bring relief to the children. I borrowed money from other kids. I traded baseball cards for coins. I felt that I was doing something, but it was just not enough. I knelt by my bed on the floor night after night, praying to Jesus to intercede in His Mercy. Then I went to the Virgin Mary, Mother of God. Then I went to the saints. Then to the angels. Then to anybody I might have forgotten. The pagan babies needed all the help they could get. The nuns were amazed at my fund raising. Somewhere in Africa there were now, hypothetically, about 20 or 30 people with my name on some catholic certificate, saved from a life of certain starvation. I did not feel good about this, however. There were so many more! So many! It seemed the task was hopeless. How could I save them all? Meanwhile, my parents started getting calls from the neighbors, thanking them for the bananas and sandwiches, but asking for the rationale behind such postal contributions. When my father and mother confronted me, I told them about the starving children, the desperate suffering pagan babies. They were not as convinced as I that giving my lunch to the neighbors was the best tactic, nor were they amused when I confessed that I had been taking their money to fund my campaign to alleviate world hunger. I sank into a profound dilemma about the whole thing. I wanted to give everything -- my life even -- to save others from suffering. I could not bear to see anyone suffer! I felt no peace, knowing that the pagan babies were crying for milk somewhere. The situation seemed unresolvable. By the time I turned 13, I had already decided to enter a catholic seminary to become a priest and dedicate myself completely to a life of unselfish service. Everyone seemed to agree that this was the best thing, given my unusual inclinations. Chapter 9 Pagan Babies (2) When I finally returned to San Francisco, I moved in with some friends I had met while still a seminarian, and who were active in the Peace effort. They lived in the Haight-Asbury District – the colorful home of the emerging Hippie Movement. One day I picked up and read the Bhagavad Gita – an ancient Hindu Bible -- and this little book had a profound and lasting impact on me. As I read the verse: "He who does My work, who is devoted to Me and loves Me, who is free from attachment and from enmity to all beings, goes to Me." a resonant epiphany rang in my heart. I proceeded to look up meditation in the phone book, found a Zen Center nearby, and began studying Buddhist practices geared towards the discovery of the truth of one's own nature. To really serve others, I now believed, I needed to "know myself" first, and this seemed like a good place to start. Many of my friends were now experimenting with the growing counter- cultural movement sweeping the nation, and by a play world had of fortune I living right in the epicenter of all that. I eagerly drank in all that this new world was serving up, but what most appealed to me was the focus on universal love woven within the songs and proclamations of this emerging vision. Nevertheless, I had learned by now that vision without action is a dream, just as action without vision is a nightmare. I was still propelled by that early call to "do something" about all the suffering around me. At the time, the Viet Nam War was in full gear and, having forsaken my theological deferment upon leaving the seminary, I soon became the recipient of the dreaded draft notice, requiring me to report for a physical in preparation for induction into the army. I did not want to shoot people, I only wanted to feed them. Consequently, I applied for Conscientious Objector status, necessitating an appearance before the Draft Board to argue my case. When I stood before the esteemed assembly of citizens who were trying to turn me into a weapon of democracy, I explained as patiently as possible how a number of people "over there" probably had the same name as mine by now, and I did not feel inclined to go shooting at them after spending so much time and effort to feed them. Apparently, this was convincing enough to Board, and so I began 2 years of Alternate Service as a Child Care Counselor at a residential treatment center in rural Northern California for emotionally scarred pre-adolescents. I was assigned to a group of 10 very unhappy and bewildered boys, and I loved them and hugged them and watched over them, and also made sure that they ate properly. I had the kitchen substitute fresh fruits and vegetables for the standard white sugar and flour products, and with my own money purchased multivitamins for the children, rather than administer the potent "meds" (Thorazine, Ritalin, etc.) that were prescribed to pharmacologically "manage" their behavior. Rather than letting them sit around and watch violent cartoons on the weekends, I would load them into the van and take them to the parks and beaches of Northern California, and let these inner-city kids get the feeling for the freedom singing through nature. At bedtime, I would give them tender backrubs, and tell them little stories about love. (SNPPING PART NOT RELEVANT TO THIS POST} Chapter 13 Pagan Babies (3) "Someone who goes with half a loaf of bread to a small place that fits like a nest around him, someone who wants no more, who's not himself longed for by anyone else. He is a letter to everyone. You open it. It says, Live." Rumi After leaving the Zen monastery, we traveled to San Francisco. I found a job with a non-profit international relief agency while Baraka began a course of studies directed towards becoming a Nurse- Midwife. {SNIPPING PART NOT RELEVANT TO THIS POST) After about a year in the Zen Monastery, the Roshi had shared an interesting observation with me. He told me that I clearly wanted to give myself to everyone and everything, but that I still did not know What I Was. As long as this was so, I was in no position to give anything at all. It was all just dream giving, and of no real value whatsoever. Moreover, I had never fully learned to receive. My false garment of humility cloaked an armor of impervious resistance to simple acceptance – acceptance of life, acceptance of the mystery of what I am. When I moved to Boston in 1975, ostensibly for a few months to study more about Natural Foods, I met a man who had just purchased a small health food store. Since I needed some work to cover my expenses, I took him up on his offer of a job. Together, and with the help of many others, we built a Natural Foods retail company over the next decade that eventually became the largest Organic products supermarket chain in the country. Hundreds of thousands of people have been introduced to a healthier style of life through this company, but this was still not enough for me. Nothing was enough. Nothing could ever be enough. Somewhere along the way a simple recognition dawned. There were no fireworks, no lightning bolts or anything dramatic -- just an obvious realization that my whole life-long quest was based on a false premise. All along, I had assumed myself to be a separate individual, trying to bridge an assumed chasm in my own being. I had superimposed on this simple being all sorts of beliefs and solipsistic judgements about myself as the one who is "doing" all of this, and then projected that dreamy stuff out into "the world" -- as if "the world" was somehow separate from myself. All along I had been repeatedly graced with clues, but I have always been a stubborn sort. In my earnest fixation on an idea of what I needed to become, I overlooked the plain and simple truth: There is no need for something to find a way to become what it already is. It only has to stop assuming itself to be what it has never been. As layers of self-inflicted dilemma melted away, I finally realized how arrogant my stubborn presumption had been -- the presumption that I could ever be in a position of "saving" anybody. With that, even the sense of the "other" – separate from myself – began to evaporate. As that house of cards came crumbling down, the whole fictional fist of contraction loosened its grip: How could I have ever imagined myself to be in any kind of position to impose my will on life! At last I began to enjoy my meals without feeling guilty. Everything returned to the ordinary happiness just briefly interrupted by that fateful movie so many years ago. I was somehow gracefully relieved of the concern that anything be other than what it is. That I be anything other than what I am. What it is, what I am -- the perfection of the universe shining in this endless moment of now. And now. And now. I can finally stop pretending. I can peel off the various costumes, or perhaps maintain the costume -- knowing that it is just a costume, and even enjoying the unique beauty of this and any costume. Lately all these costumes seem to slip off on their own accord. All is getting done, mysteriously. Like melting snow in warming spring streams, the fascination with any destiny dissolves in the flow – gradually, almost unnoticed. Chronic reactivity gathered from past experience ceases to be recycled. Suffering, confusion, and doubt resume their transparency. The sense of individuality persists, but sifted now within the context of awareness, of space with no borders – changing perpetually, in harmony with simple circumstance. Here is where we always meet – in our own incomparable vastness. Here is where this love is real – in the heart of our ordinary beauty. Everyone waltzes through me like the summer wind. I hear their whoosh whipping them in all directions. I am a swinging door, these hinges oiled with Heart's juices. I swing both ways -- no longer remembering in from out -- enjoying this breeze, this afternoon in timelessness. The dream we dream of this life is a small shadow, arising in a vast space of awesome mystery. There is not even one molecule that is not permeated with the most amazing heartbeat of Life living us, just as It does. We can go anywhere, already realizing that there is nowhere to go! We can do anything, already realizing that "we" are doing nothing! There are no barriers in life, except what we imagine in our innocent misunderstandings. Even these are perfection and grace. There is nothing and no one to save. Thus, all are truly saved. There is no freedom or bondage. Thus, all are truly free. There is nobody to bless. Thus, all are truly blessed. It may seem as though nothing has changed, and that will be true. Then you will notice that you are not afraid, and a thousand samadhis won't compare to just one dear sweet breath of air! Perhaps you will discover this for yourself, until it becomes totally obvious that All Is Well. LoveAlways, b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2002 Report Share Posted July 4, 2002 on 7/4/02 10:10 AM, mazie_l at sraddha54 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com wrote: Dear Brother, Perhaps it might be a kinder and wiser part of this sangha communion to leave the puberty of Alpha Male contests to the goats, eh? Perhaps then you might just stop and ask: "What is the stake, the investment in all of this rancor, for Zenbob?" Would you indulge me for a moment while I share part of a little Story here with you and all? Chapter 4 Pagan Babies (1) "We become that upon which we meditate." Muktananda At the Catholic school in which I was enrolled in the 1950's, the usual curriculum routine was occasionally set aside for "Audio- Visual" presentations. Students were gathered into the auditorium, lights were dimmed, and the whir of a film projector signaled the beginning of another movie about precautions to be observed in the event of a nuclear attack. This one was different, however. I was 9 years old, and as I watched the flickering images of babies, covered with swarming flies, dying of starvation in some country I had never heard of, my own young heart was burned. In fact, by the end of the film I was on the verge of passing out until the lights came on and an earnest missionary appeared in front of the assembled students. As I listened intently to this Soldier of Christ, the mission which was soon to dominate my life took form. In a vision of service not unlike dressing the sacred wounds of Jesus, the task before me was suddenly and undoubtedly made clear. The missionary promised that, if each student was able to somehow contribute $5.00, they would be able to adopt one of these "pagan babies". Not only would it be "saved" but, as a side benefit, each child would get to share the name of the contributor who had donated the sum. $5.00 seemed like a lot of money, but no obstacle was going to deter me in my newfound crusade. I immediately threw myself into a fervor of coin collecting. I started out using all of my milk money, but found that wasn't nearly enough. Every minute another child was dying! I began going into my father's pants pocket at night, after my parents went to sleep. Each time I would take just a few dimes or nickels to contribute, reasoning that they didn't need the money as much as the pagan babies. I approached all of my visiting relatives, as well as my parents' friends, soliciting spare change for the mission. I would search the street on my way to and from school, looking for any fallen coins that might go to the cause. There was a girl next door who walked with crutches from polio, and I offered to help her to school. When her parents inquired into my generosity, I told them of the suffering of the innocents, and they were happy to offer me a quarter each week for his help. Soon I broadened my view to include the neighborhood as potential recipients of goodwill. I began to take my bagged lunch and parcel elements of it into people's mailboxes as I walked the girl to school. I felt that it was better for me to go hungry than to have anybody else in the world go hungry. By the time I arrived at class, I had an empty bag but my heart was a little fuller. Next I got a job as a paper boy, rising when it was still dark to travel the streets delivering the news and forwarding my earnings towards the pagan babies. At sunrise, I would pause for a moment and pray to God that this new day would bring relief to the children. I borrowed money from other kids. I traded baseball cards for coins. I felt that I was doing something, but it was just not enough. I knelt by my bed on the floor night after night, praying to Jesus to intercede in His Mercy. Then I went to the Virgin Mary, Mother of God. Then I went to the saints. Then to the angels. Then to anybody I might have forgotten. The pagan babies needed all the help they could get. The nuns were amazed at my fund raising. Somewhere in Africa there were now, hypothetically, about 20 or 30 people with my name on some catholic certificate, saved from a life of certain starvation. I did not feel good about this, however. There were so many more! So many! It seemed the task was hopeless. How could I save them all? Meanwhile, my parents started getting calls from the neighbors, thanking them for the bananas and sandwiches, but asking for the rationale behind such postal contributions. When my father and mother confronted me, I told them about the starving children, the desperate suffering pagan babies. They were not as convinced as I that giving my lunch to the neighbors was the best tactic, nor were they amused when I confessed that I had been taking their money to fund my campaign to alleviate world hunger. I sank into a profound dilemma about the whole thing. I wanted to give everything -- my life even -- to save others from suffering. I could not bear to see anyone suffer! I felt no peace, knowing that the pagan babies were crying for milk somewhere. The situation seemed unresolvable. By the time I turned 13, I had already decided to enter a catholic seminary to become a priest and dedicate myself completely to a life of unselfish service. Everyone seemed to agree that this was the best thing, given my unusual inclinations. Chapter 9 Pagan Babies (2) When I finally returned to San Francisco, I moved in with some friends I had met while still a seminarian, and who were active in the Peace effort. They lived in the Haight-Asbury District – the colorful home of the emerging Hippie Movement. One day I picked up and read the Bhagavad Gita – an ancient Hindu Bible -- and this little book had a profound and lasting impact on me. As I read the verse: "He who does My work, who is devoted to Me and loves Me, who is free from attachment and from enmity to all beings, goes to Me." a resonant epiphany rang in my heart. I proceeded to look up meditation in the phone book, found a Zen Center nearby, and began studying Buddhist practices geared towards the discovery of the truth of one's own nature. To really serve others, I now believed, I needed to "know myself" first, and this seemed like a good place to start. Many of my friends were now experimenting with the growing counter- cultural movement sweeping the nation, and by a play world had of fortune I living right in the epicenter of all that. I eagerly drank in all that this new world was serving up, but what most appealed to me was the focus on universal love woven within the songs and proclamations of this emerging vision. Nevertheless, I had learned by now that vision without action is a dream, just as action without vision is a nightmare. I was still propelled by that early call to "do something" about all the suffering around me. At the time, the Viet Nam War was in full gear and, having forsaken my theological deferment upon leaving the seminary, I soon became the recipient of the dreaded draft notice, requiring me to report for a physical in preparation for induction into the army. I did not want to shoot people, I only wanted to feed them. Consequently, I applied for Conscientious Objector status, necessitating an appearance before the Draft Board to argue my case. When I stood before the esteemed assembly of citizens who were trying to turn me into a weapon of democracy, I explained as patiently as possible how a number of people "over there" probably had the same name as mine by now, and I did not feel inclined to go shooting at them after spending so much time and effort to feed them. Apparently, this was convincing enough to Board, and so I began 2 years of Alternate Service as a Child Care Counselor at a residential treatment center in rural Northern California for emotionally scarred pre-adolescents. I was assigned to a group of 10 very unhappy and bewildered boys, and I loved them and hugged them and watched over them, and also made sure that they ate properly. I had the kitchen substitute fresh fruits and vegetables for the standard white sugar and flour products, and with my own money purchased multivitamins for the children, rather than administer the potent "meds" (Thorazine, Ritalin, etc.) that were prescribed to pharmacologically "manage" their behavior. Rather than letting them sit around and watch violent cartoons on the weekends, I would load them into the van and take them to the parks and beaches of Northern California, and let these inner-city kids get the feeling for the freedom singing through nature. At bedtime, I would give them tender backrubs, and tell them little stories about love. (SNPPING PART NOT RELEVANT TO THIS POST} Chapter 13 Pagan Babies (3) "Someone who goes with half a loaf of bread to a small place that fits like a nest around him, someone who wants no more, who's not himself longed for by anyone else. He is a letter to everyone. You open it. It says, Live." Rumi After leaving the Zen monastery, we traveled to San Francisco. I found a job with a non-profit international relief agency while Baraka began a course of studies directed towards becoming a Nurse- Midwife. {SNIPPING PART NOT RELEVANT TO THIS POST) After about a year in the Zen Monastery, the Roshi had shared an interesting observation with me. He told me that I clearly wanted to give myself to everyone and everything, but that I still did not know What I Was. As long as this was so, I was in no position to give anything at all. It was all just dream giving, and of no real value whatsoever. Moreover, I had never fully learned to receive. My false garment of humility cloaked an armor of impervious resistance to simple acceptance – acceptance of life, acceptance of the mystery of what I am. When I moved to Boston in 1975, ostensibly for a few months to study more about Natural Foods, I met a man who had just purchased a small health food store. Since I needed some work to cover my expenses, I took him up on his offer of a job. Together, and with the help of many others, we built a Natural Foods retail company over the next decade that eventually became the largest Organic products supermarket chain in the country. Hundreds of thousands of people have been introduced to a healthier style of life through this company, but this was still not enough for me. Nothing was enough. Nothing could ever be enough. Somewhere along the way a simple recognition dawned. There were no fireworks, no lightning bolts or anything dramatic -- just an obvious realization that my whole life-long quest was based on a false premise. All along, I had assumed myself to be a separate individual, trying to bridge an assumed chasm in my own being. I had superimposed on this simple being all sorts of beliefs and solipsistic judgements about myself as the one who is "doing" all of this, and then projected that dreamy stuff out into "the world" -- as if "the world" was somehow separate from myself. All along I had been repeatedly graced with clues, but I have always been a stubborn sort. In my earnest fixation on an idea of what I needed to become, I overlooked the plain and simple truth: There is no need for something to find a way to become what it already is. It only has to stop assuming itself to be what it has never been. As layers of self-inflicted dilemma melted away, I finally realized how arrogant my stubborn presumption had been -- the presumption that I could ever be in a position of "saving" anybody. With that, even the sense of the "other" – separate from myself – began to evaporate. As that house of cards came crumbling down, the whole fictional fist of contraction loosened its grip: How could I have ever imagined myself to be in any kind of position to impose my will on life! At last I began to enjoy my meals without feeling guilty. Everything returned to the ordinary happiness just briefly interrupted by that fateful movie so many years ago. I was somehow gracefully relieved of the concern that anything be other than what it is. That I be anything other than what I am. What it is, what I am -- the perfection of the universe shining in this endless moment of now. And now. And now. I can finally stop pretending. I can peel off the various costumes, or perhaps maintain the costume -- knowing that it is just a costume, and even enjoying the unique beauty of this and any costume. Lately all these costumes seem to slip off on their own accord. All is getting done, mysteriously. Like melting snow in warming spring streams, the fascination with any destiny dissolves in the flow – gradually, almost unnoticed. Chronic reactivity gathered from past experience ceases to be recycled. Suffering, confusion, and doubt resume their transparency. The sense of individuality persists, but sifted now within the context of awareness, of space with no borders – changing perpetually, in harmony with simple circumstance. Here is where we always meet – in our own incomparable vastness. Here is where this love is real – in the heart of our ordinary beauty. Everyone waltzes through me like the summer wind. I hear their whoosh whipping them in all directions. I am a swinging door, these hinges oiled with Heart's juices. I swing both ways -- no longer remembering in from out -- enjoying this breeze, this afternoon in timelessness. The dream we dream of this life is a small shadow, arising in a vast space of awesome mystery. There is not even one molecule that is not permeated with the most amazing heartbeat of Life living us, just as It does. We can go anywhere, already realizing that there is nowhere to go! We can do anything, already realizing that "we" are doing nothing! There are no barriers in life, except what we imagine in our innocent misunderstandings. Even these are perfection and grace. There is nothing and no one to save. Thus, all are truly saved. There is no freedom or bondage. Thus, all are truly free. There is nobody to bless. Thus, all are truly blessed. It may seem as though nothing has changed, and that will be true. Then you will notice that you are not afraid, and a thousand samadhis won't compare to just one dear sweet breath of air! Perhaps you will discover this for yourself, until it becomes totally obvious that All Is Well. LoveAlways, b ===================== Dad! Sponsor /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. Terms of Service <> . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2002 Report Share Posted July 5, 2002 Thus, all are truly blessed. It may seem as though nothing has changed, and that will be true. Then you will notice that you are not afraid, and a thousand samadhis won't compare to just one dear sweet breath of air! Perhaps you will discover this for yourself, until it becomes totally obvious that All Is Well. Dear b: I have no doubt that you have gone through a variety of experiences and realizations as to what is "true" but life is often a circle and not just a path. Neither you nor I can eliminate starvation in the world. We cannot eliminate war. We cannot with any reasonable hope, eliminate disease or suffering in general. Howewever, after all is said and done, each of us, with word and deed effects the lives of those we have contact with. If we did not, then neither of us would keep attempting to communicate. But it would be wrong to assume that such knowing of our futility in changing the world also means that we have risen above ego, no longer have feelings, cannot imagine that others have no feelings, or that a kind deed, rather than merely an abstract thought will not make the world better for one, or even a dozen other people. I am not a big believer in "organized official" efforts to give aid to others. My experience indicates that private efforts created to accomplish a single simple objective work best. I also know that if an ordinary couple adopt a real child or orphan in need, that they have changed the life forever for that individual. So, taking actions in the world do result in positive changes, Bob. To say that it is already just perfect is really to rationalize away the acts of mercy and goodness that others do everyday. Perhaps after all your experience, you now have achieved such a lofty sense of self knowing that you cannot imagine doing good in the world with any word or deed. Being an ignorant sort of idiot, and steeped in Sufi Silliness, I believe that some words and deeds can accomplish good things. The right words are deeds...as they open hearts and alter the behavior of good people. Why else cherish those wise words? Why else teach others to be merciful, kind and forgiving? It's funny, because I have lived and done many things in my life...but I have never believed that the things that I did that benefited others were in vain. I know that many things I tried to do that I thought were well intentioned failed to manifest the desired results, but that never caused me to believe that all such efforts were useless or unnecessary--or worse, that I would set myself up as an expert, and counsel others to do nothing, but to listen to my words as if they were somehow that much more important than real people's lives. It sounds to me that you are an idealist who yearned to do more and to do better than anyone else could...when that failed to be possible, you tried another tack, only to recreate the same sense of futile effort...all roads lead to dissatisfaction when the destination is perfection. I don't expect perfection from anyone, anything or from myself. Just the best effort and best goodwill possible. And the results need not live up to my expectation. When they do, that's fine. If not, so be it. We build the wall of China one day at a time, and if we never see the entire harvest of the fruits of our labor, and if others must labor on in that vineyard, so be it...the fruits will come by and by. We certainly cannot just opt out of the human race and deem ourselves superior because we have tried and failed before, by our own ideals. Maybe the world has been mean to you. Maybe you needed others to say what a great person, kind person or deep thinker you were. Why? Why ask why? We all have complex natures. I choose to think that a good person exists there, and that those qualities that make a person virtuous in the real sense are all still in there, even if they are not all active. I hate to hear anyone say, "I tried to be a great painter, but when I tried to paint a Mona Lisa I realized it was futile, then I tried to paint a Vermeer, and that was disappointing, finally I tried a Monet, and that too turned out to be a false idea, so now I do not paint, warn others to never paint, and I just wave a paintbrush in the air, as I attempt to convince others of my true knowledge of the universe." Take a long walk in the park or at the ocean and give it all a bit of reflection. Do you really wish to "do" nothing more in the world? Contribute nothing? Make no attempt to improve the existence of anyone or anyone else? As I wrote before, if it's all juist perfect, why shave? Why shower? Why anything? Blessings, Love, Zenbob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2002 Report Share Posted July 5, 2002 On 7/5/02 at 6:54 AM zen2wrk (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote: [...] Take a long walk in the park or at the ocean and give it all a bit of reflection. Do you really wish to "do" nothing more in the world? Contribute nothing? Make no attempt to improve the existence of anyone or anyone else? As I wrote before, if it's all juist perfect, why shave? Why shower? Why anything? Blessings, Love, Zenbob There is a saying "for every expression there is at least 1 perspective". >From the perspective "only nirguna is real" (Tony, where are you? :-) the manifest (saguna) can be observed to strive after perfection, like a child will make efforts to improve its sand castles at the beach when the ocean has swallowed one. >From the perspective "nirguna = saguna", everything is perfect, you can relax behind the tube, munch popcorn and drink beer as long as the bag sustains those operations. Yet another perspective states the second perspective only serves to annihilate attachments, the first perspective could introduce: thoughts like "efforts serve no purpose" show the same attachment as "efforts serve a purpose". Which reminds a bit of the first posts at the start of the Tanka list (public archives): there is no antidote for laziness yet, hence the Western definition of Tanka has become "poem consisting of five short lines". Peace, Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2002 Report Share Posted July 5, 2002 Hi Bob, Zenbob and Mazie, If nothing else, from this exchange we got some beautiful writing... If this were a novel, it would surely go to the top of some chart somewhere... "Bob, Mazie and Zenbob and the art of new age pulp fiction". I am not facetious here, believe me..., just trying to sound smart. :-) Good thing all of us are real... and of course, while stirring this pot of reality, bubbles of illusion rise to the top imploding into hollow sounding vacuoles. blup blup blup Wim zen2wrk (AT) aol (DOT) com [zen2wrk (AT) aol (DOT) com]Friday, July 05, 2002 3:54 AMTo: Subject: Re: Zenbob/ Pagan BabiesIn a message dated 7/4/02 1:11:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time, sraddha54 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com writes: Thus, all are truly blessed. It may seem as though nothing has changed, and that will be true. Then you will notice that you are not afraid, and a thousand samadhis won't compare to just one dear sweet breath of air! Perhaps you will discover this for yourself, until it becomes totally obvious that All Is Well. Dear b: I have no doubt that you have gone through a variety of experiences and realizations as to what is "true" but life is often a circle and not just a path. Neither you nor I can eliminate starvation in the world. We cannot eliminate war. We cannot with any reasonable hope, eliminate disease or suffering in general. Howewever, after all is said and done, each of us, with word and deed effects the lives of those we have contact with. If we did not, then neither of us would keep attempting to communicate. But it would be wrong to assume that such knowing of our futility in changing the world also means that we have risen above ego, no longer have feelings, cannot imagine that others have no feelings, or that a kind deed, rather than merely an abstract thought will not make the world better for one, or even a dozen other people. I am not a big believer in "organized official" efforts to give aid to others. My experience indicates that private efforts created to accomplish a single simple objective work best. I also know that if an ordinary couple adopt a real child or orphan in need, that they have changed the life forever for that individual. So, taking actions in the world do result in positive changes, Bob. To say that it is already just perfect is really to rationalize away the acts of mercy and goodness that others do everyday. Perhaps after all your experience, you now have achieved such a lofty sense of self knowing that you cannot imagine doing good in the world with any word or deed. Being an ignorant sort of idiot, and steeped in Sufi Silliness, I believe that some words and deeds can accomplish good things. The right words are deeds...as they open hearts and alter the behavior of good people. Why else cherish those wise words? Why else teach others to be merciful, kind and forgiving? It's funny, because I have lived and done many things in my life...but I have never believed that the things that I did that benefited others were in vain. I know that many things I tried to do that I thought were well intentioned failed to manifest the desired results, but that never caused me to believe that all such efforts were useless or unnecessary--or worse, that I would set myself up as an expert, and counsel others to do nothing, but to listen to my words as if they were somehow that much more important than real people's lives. It sounds to me that you are an idealist who yearned to do more and to do better than anyone else could...when that failed to be possible, you tried another tack, only to recreate the same sense of futile effort...all roads lead to dissatisfaction when the destination is perfection. I don't expect perfection from anyone, anything or from myself. Just the best effort and best goodwill possible. And the results need not live up to my expectation. When they do, that's fine. If not, so be it. We build the wall of China one day at a time, and if we never see the entire harvest of the fruits of our labor, and if others must labor on in that vineyard, so be it...the fruits will come by and by. We certainly cannot just opt out of the human race and deem ourselves superior because we have tried and failed before, by our own ideals. Maybe the world has been mean to you. Maybe you needed others to say what a great person, kind person or deep thinker you were. Why? Why ask why? We all have complex natures. I choose to think that a good person exists there, and that those qualities that make a person virtuous in the real sense are all still in there, even if they are not all active. I hate to hear anyone say, "I tried to be a great painter, but when I tried to paint a Mona Lisa I realized it was futile, then I tried to paint a Vermeer, and that was disappointing, finally I tried a Monet, and that too turned out to be a false idea, so now I do not paint, warn others to never paint, and I just wave a paintbrush in the air, as I attempt to convince others of my true knowledge of the universe." Take a long walk in the park or at the ocean and give it all a bit of reflection. Do you really wish to "do" nothing more in the world? Contribute nothing? Make no attempt to improve the existence of anyone or anyone else? As I wrote before, if it's all juist perfect, why shave? Why shower? Why anything? Blessings, Love, Zenbob /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a.Your use of is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2002 Report Share Posted July 5, 2002 , Wim Borsboom <wim@a...> wrote: > Hi Bob, Zenbob and Mazie, Hi Wim! Wanna swim with me in the wonder of It All? Oh yeah! You ARE the Wonder of It All, so what need to Swim in what Wim Is? Wim Is the Swimming of the Swimmer - The Swim of the Swim, God i just swim in this Wonder of Wim. No swimmer, no swimming, no Ocean to swim in, no Wim! What wonder of Wonders, this Swimless Swimming, this Wimless Wimming! When has It never Been This? When has It ever Been less? Lesson learned about turning the turn and finding out there was no turner to turn in and tune out and then turn it up again. Turning up the Music and turning up the Heat, i find that i am the Song and i am the Fire - the bobbing the head to the Song of One, the Zenbob of Zen as the Friend just wanting to Play! The heat of the Heartbeat, beating me to the punchline and becoming the Ultimate Joke of the One and Only Comedian Extraordinaire! Laughter Swims out to greet ItSelf, the Echo of OneSound against the Cave of the Heart - OneHeartBeat from OneHeart treats itSelf to the Sound of Its Own Mirthful Mouthful! i just Love that Heartbeat beating seven times around the Spine, seven times through the Mind, what? No Mind? i don't mind if the Seven Sisters crashes this Heartboat bobbing along as just this Song into the Sea of Self-Awareness. Waftingly along the very road to Nowhere, uh-oh, i mean verily veritas of no mas, This Is the Seventh Wonder of One wanting nothing but to Play It Out. The Pay-out is This - Love Loves to Love ItSelf, and Laugh so Lovingly while doing so, eh? > If nothing else, from this exchange we got some beautiful writing... If this were a novel, it would surely go to the top of some chart somewhere..."Bob, Mazie and Zenbob and the art of new age pulp fiction". ....And zen zhere wus nutting! Nutting, Novhere, dis Nutting... Is she nuts, or what? Some say. Amazing grace! >I am not facetious here, believe me..., just trying to sound smart. :-) Good thing all of us are real... and of course, while stirring this pot of reality, bubbles of illusion rise to the top imploding into hollow sounding vacuoles. i am the bubble, make me the sea, oh i am the bubble, make me the sea...seeing the Sea, i See i never saw a thing, you see, it's all in the way we See things. See Jane run. See Jane fall. Run Jane! Run! See how fun this Fun runs with me! blup blup blup blurb blurb blurb > Wim LoveAlways, Mazie > > zen2wrk@a... [zen2wrk@a...] > Friday, July 05, 2002 3:54 AM > > Re: Zenbob/ Pagan Babies > > > In a message dated 7/4/02 1:11:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > sraddha54@h... writes: > > > > Thus, all are truly blessed. It may seem as though nothing > has changed, and that will be true. Then you will notice that you are > not afraid, and a thousand samadhis won't compare to just one dear > sweet breath of air! > Perhaps you will discover this for yourself, until it becomes totally > obvious that > > All Is Well. > > > > Dear b: > > I have no doubt that you have gone through a variety of experiences and > realizations as to what is "true" but life is often a circle and not just a > path. Neither you nor I can eliminate starvation in the world. We cannot > eliminate war. We cannot with any reasonable hope, eliminate disease or > suffering in general. Howewever, after all is said and done, each of us, > with word and deed effects the lives of those we have contact with. If we > did not, then neither of us would keep attempting to communicate. But it > would be wrong to assume that such knowing of our futility in changing the > world also means that we have risen above ego, no longer have feelings, > cannot imagine that others have no feelings, or that a kind deed, rather > than merely an abstract thought will not make the world better for one, or > even a dozen other people. > > I am not a big believer in "organized official" efforts to give aid to > others. My experience indicates that private efforts created to accomplish > a single simple objective work best. > > I also know that if an ordinary couple adopt a real child or orphan in need, > that they have changed the life forever for that individual. So, taking > actions in the world do result in positive changes, Bob. To say that it is > already just perfect is really to rationalize away the acts of mercy and > goodness that others do everyday. > > Perhaps after all your experience, you now have achieved such a lofty sense > of self knowing that you cannot imagine doing good in the world with any > word or deed. Being an ignorant sort of idiot, and steeped in Sufi > Silliness, I believe that some words and deeds can accomplish good things. > The right words are deeds...as they open hearts and alter the behavior of > good people. Why else cherish those wise words? Why else teach others to > be merciful, kind and forgiving? > > It's funny, because I have lived and done many things in my life...but I > have never believed that the things that I did that benefited others were in > vain. I know that many things I tried to do that I thought were well > intentioned failed to manifest the desired results, but that never caused me > to believe that all such efforts were useless or unnecessary--or worse, that > I would set myself up as an expert, and counsel others to do nothing, but to > listen to my words as if they were somehow that much more important than > real people's lives. > > It sounds to me that you are an idealist who yearned to do more and to do > better than anyone else could...when that failed to be possible, you tried > another tack, only to recreate the same sense of futile effort...all roads > lead to dissatisfaction when the destination is perfection. I don't expect > perfection from anyone, anything or from myself. Just the best effort and > best goodwill possible. And the results need not live up to my expectation. > When they do, that's fine. If not, so be it. We build the wall of China > one day at a time, and if we never see the entire harvest of the fruits of > our labor, and if others must labor on in that vineyard, so be it...the > fruits will come by and by. We certainly cannot just opt out of the human > race and deem ourselves superior because we have tried and failed before, by > our own ideals. > > Maybe the world has been mean to you. Maybe you needed others to say what a > great person, kind person or deep thinker you were. Why? Why ask why? We > all have complex natures. I choose to think that a good person exists > there, and that those qualities that make a person virtuous in the real > sense are all still in there, even if they are not all active. I hate to > hear anyone say, "I tried to be a great painter, but when I tried to paint a > Mona Lisa I realized it was futile, then I tried to paint a Vermeer, and > that was disappointing, finally I tried a Monet, and that too turned out to > be a false idea, so now I do not paint, warn others to never paint, and I > just wave a paintbrush in the air, as I attempt to convince others of my > true knowledge of the universe." > > Take a long walk in the park or at the ocean and give it all a bit of > reflection. Do you really wish to "do" nothing more in the world? > Contribute nothing? Make no attempt to improve the existence of anyone or > anyone else? As I wrote before, if it's all juist perfect, why shave? Why > shower? Why anything? > > Blessings, > Love, > > Zenbob > /join > > > > > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, > perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside > back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than > the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. > Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is > where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal > Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously > arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. > > > > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release 6/5/2002 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2002 Report Share Posted July 5, 2002 Hi Mazie, this must be a good day... :-))) >>> Hi Wim! Wanna swim with me in the wonder of It All? Oh yeah! You ARE the Wonder of It All, so what need to Swim in what Wim Is? Wim Is the Swimming of the Swimmer - The Swim of the Swim, God i just swim in this Wonder of Wim. No swimmer, no swimming, no Ocean to swim in, no Wim! What wonder of Wonders, this Swimless Swimming, this Wimless Wimming! When has It never Been This? When has It ever Been less? <<< You are the second one today... It was Lynette this morning already, teaming me up in that vast ocean of churning and whirling love. "Its waters so teeming with all of us, swirling swimmers, the dynamic cohesion between us, molecules of love..." Wim "There will be dancing in the streets and swimming in the lakes." >From "Shiva dancing, Krishna Swimming" --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release 6/5/2002 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2002 Report Share Posted July 5, 2002 , Wim Borsboom <wim@a...> wrote: If this were a novel, it would surely go to the top of some chart somewhere... "Bob, Mazie and Zenbob and the art of new age pulp fiction". ....perhaps even inspiring an examination of the original pulp fiction -- the belief in independent doership. :-) LoveAlways, b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2002 Report Share Posted July 5, 2002 Hi b > ...perhaps even inspiring an examination of > the original pulp fiction -- > the belief in independent doership. and how that ties in so much with the concept of a free will. Wim --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release 6/5/2002 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2002 Report Share Posted July 5, 2002 , Wim Borsboom <wim@a...> wrote: > > ...perhaps even inspiring an examination of > > the original pulp fiction -- > > the belief in independent doership. > and how that ties in so much with the concept of a free will. .....from an essay shared here awhile ago, author unknown: "We do not want to suffer. No one does. But we continue to suffer regardless of the many choices we seem to make because suffering is all about you, I, me. There is no suffering in witnessing, only in ownership. So long as we think we are the "I" we suffer, but as we begin to awaken suffering does not disappear. It is simply that there is no I" to make it personal. This cannot be understood by the mind, which believes that "I" is real and not an illusion, as are all things attached to the "I", which includes choices, and inevitable suffering. We are not here to relieve suffering, but to penetrate the fiction of the "I". Suffering is an object that only exists as long as there is a subject, and the subject in this case is us. It is no accident that we are meeting here. We are tired of our attempts to make this world better, even if we are not aware of this fatigue. Most people are not aware of the tremendous amount of energy it takes to make things better. Most of us have a life that many would envy, yet there is something missing. That is why we are here. Some of us have attempted to follow a path, and as satisfying and fruitful as that has been, we still are missing something. When we go to find what is missing, we always look to the mind to tell us how to find it, and the mind always obliges. Almost everyone follows thoughts and ends up someplace, usually if its spiritual truth they are seeking they end up on an organized path that provides various choices of practice. This is not to be denigrated. Paths serve a function if the person realizes that the path is only "pointing" to something that the path itself cannot deliver. Unfortunately people become deeply attached to the path and the path becomes an end in itself. But for a very few, the path has served a different purpose entirely, and that is to help them realized that the path can only take them so far, and that they must drop the path in order to go further. At this point a certain hopelessness sets in for many; they are now left to themselves and usually what happens after a time is they become attached to a different path or go back and start the old one again from the beginning. For a very, very few who are willing to just be in that place of hopelessness, something comes. A glimmer begins which cannot be understood by the mind. That glimmer leads us to the end of the search. The mind asks, "if I am not here for some benefit then why am I here?" And the answer to that is - we are here to die. Death takes many forms, and the one we usually focus on is death of the body. But there are other deaths that must be faced, and one of the most painful for us is the death of hope. Hope is the belief that things will get better. That the choices we make will lead to a more desirable outcome. Very few can imagine a life without hope. A life without hope seems like a life not worth living. Hope brings with it a desire for life to be a certain way, a better way. This is so because the way things are in the present moment is not the way we want things to be. We want things to be better. To be sure, we may work to improve our station in life, have more money, more toys, better relationships, and they may improve. We may become happier because we have more of the things we want and less of the things we don't, but then we must maintain this status or the happiness we think we've found will go away. Life becomes a life of protecting what we want and keeping away what we don't want. And all the while right here now is life the way it is, asking nothing of anyone, making no demands. We are spoiled, just as a little child who demands to have its way. When it doesn't get what it wants it cries and whines and makes a fuss until it gets what it wants or it gets a spanking. Life tends to give a lot of spankings. I know I sure get my share. Some of us begin to wake up to the fact that these spankings, this suffering, is not necessary. Wanting benefits from life is saying that life is not good enough the way it is - I want it better. But eventually we notice that "better" is a game that never ends, better becomes the enemy of Now. As we begin to awaken, we begin to drop our demands for choices, because we begin to realize the one demanding them is not real, the one silently witnessing the demanding Is." LoveAlways, b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2002 Report Share Posted July 6, 2002 (public archives): there is no antidote for laziness yet, hence the Western definition of Tanka has become "poem consisting of five short lines". Besides this definition being abysmal, it is also reprehensible! Your point is manifestly proven! I think I pushed that thought forward to illustrate that there is a large gap between what we "understand to be reality" ("cogito") and what we actually do in the world in order to live with reality ("Practicum"). I wished merely to flush the dialectic out of the discussion to whatever degree was possible...to the ends that real flesh and blood people in the real world must do real things in order to survive. This very dualistic reality is what "at the end of the day" we each have as our net experience, plus whatever our senses and thoughts deliver to us. But, if we do not plant the seeds, our gardens do not grow. Taking the stand that "all is well, always and no action need ever be done" is not validated in the empirical world. We cannot know the contents of a book merely by wishing it were so--most of us must actually read it, and that is an action. I am going to rest now, that is my action. >>>>>>>>>>(World Perfect)<<<<<<<< The world is perfect And then I saw a child cry How could I help her? I gave her my hand to hold She smiles--the world is perfect. Blessings, Love Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2002 Report Share Posted July 6, 2002 Hi b > ...perhaps even inspiring an examination of > the original pulp fiction -- > the belief in independent doership. and how that ties in so much with the concept of a free will. I recently saw an Advert in a paper offering a "Free Will" as well as up to two hours of legal consultation. What a concept! Hugs, Zenbob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2002 Report Share Posted July 6, 2002 As we begin to awaken, we begin to drop our demands for choices, because we begin to realize the one demanding them is not real, the one silently witnessing the demanding Is." Mayhaps, but choicelessness can lead to Nihilism and to withdrawl from the world. For some this might be a good thing. For others, not such a good thing. If we just allow the fence to rot and fall down, eventually the coyotes come in and eat the chickens and then we get no eggs, and we miss the omelettes, as the Wise Ones of the Mesa often say. So, sometimes good fences make good neighbors, and good fences may need a good fencer to keep it in good repair. This require action, not merely self contemplation. Sure, the universe is perfect. I agree. And so do I and I and all the other We who are One. But I sure do enjoy a good omellete sometimes. Love, Blessings, Zenbob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2002 Report Share Posted July 6, 2002 On 7/6/02 at 3:08 AM zen2wrk (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote: In a message dated 7/5/02 6:18:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time, janb (AT) mail (DOT) infocanarias.com writes: (public archives): there is no antidote for laziness yet, hence the Western definition of Tanka has become "poem consisting of five short lines". Besides this definition being abysmal, it is also reprehensible! Your point is manifestly proven! I had a good laugh browsing the archive - predictably, the "laziness" frame of mind cannot be converted to activity (tamas transforming into rajas guna) unless another factor is introduced - for the sake of simplicity called "Love". I think I pushed that thought forward to illustrate that there is a large gap between what we "understand to be reality" ("cogito") and what we actually do in the world in order to live with reality ("Practicum"). I wished merely to flush the dialectic out of the discussion to whatever degree was possible...to the ends that real flesh and blood people in the real world must do real things in order to survive. What you could have proposed is this: a common effort to design a form, specifically tailored to express the inexpressible in English. Although i used the 5-7-5-7-7 in Dutch as well, that effort showed the issue "design a language-specific form" much better than verbosity ever could.. verbo city crowns noise the sound of city's viewsrules the darkest greyeven it the music playsverbo city dumbo dim This very dualistic reality is what "at the end of the day" we each have as our net experience, plus whatever our senses and thoughts deliver to us. But, if we do not plant the seeds, our gardens do not grow. Taking the stand that "all is well, always and no action need ever be done" is not validated in the empirical world. We cannot know the contents of a book merely by wishing it were so--most of us must actually read it, and that is an action. I am going to rest now, that is my action. Usually it is considered, a coin has two sides but of course it has three. The two depicted as polar pairs like action/inaction, pleasure/pain, joy/sadness etc. etc., the third is neither one of those two nor "nothing" yet the two cannot exist without the third.>>>>>>>>>>(World Perfect)<<<<<<<< The world is perfect And then I saw a child cry How could I help her? I gave her my hand to hold She smiles--the world is perfect. Blessings, Love that deserves another one, "the pun of nothing": leela is the playteeming with activitywhere nothing does stay nothing happening?desert has to be the showwhere nothing can grow nothing fertilizednothing grown to holy cownothing holy now nothing worth to dealnothing gives a better smokewhen nothing is real Peace, Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2002 Report Share Posted July 6, 2002 The doing still gets done, but there is no DOER. The mighty identification and all that goes with it......is transparent......work becomes play.."No one has ever got hurt" is SEEN as Truth....remarkable and as untrue as it sounds! Shawn on 7/5/02 10:02 PM, zen2wrk (AT) aol (DOT) com at zen2wrk (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote: In a message dated 7/5/02 1:24:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time, hrtbeat7 writes: As we begin to awaken, we begin to drop our demands for choices, because we begin to realize the one demanding them is not real, the one silently witnessing the demanding Is." Mayhaps, but choicelessness can lead to Nihilism and to withdrawl from the world. For some this might be a good thing. For others, not such a good thing. If we just allow the fence to rot and fall down, eventually the coyotes come in and eat the chickens and then we get no eggs, and we miss the omelettes, as the Wise Ones of the Mesa often say. So, sometimes good fences make good neighbors, and good fences may need a good fencer to keep it in good repair. This require action, not merely self contemplation. Sure, the universe is perfect. I agree. And so do I and I and all the other We who are One. But I sure do enjoy a good omellete sometimes. Love, Blessings, Zenbob Sponsor <http://rd./M=229641.2166546.3626727.1829184/D=egroupweb/S=1705060955:HM/A=1142327/R=0/*http://promo./debtscape/> /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. Terms of Service <> . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2002 Report Share Posted July 7, 2002 Absolutely right Shawn > The doing still gets done, but there is no DOER. > The mighty identification and all that goes with it > ......is transparent......work becomes play.. > "No one has ever got hurt" is SEEN as Truth > ....remarkable and as untrue as it sounds! Got to this from a totally different angle... same discovery... Hey guys, we all are a pretty good bunch... How old are we now...? Not that it matters! But I have to laugh sometimes when I imagine our ages... Bunch of old fogies most of us are... ....All still dancing like Mick Jagger... ..........Just wait till we are 80........... ......cosmic dancers and players...... Wim Upgrade Outlook - Add COLOR to your Emails Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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