We are here to die? What? [was Zenbob/ Pagan Babies]

[Guest guest]

One needs no "raison d'etre"

We are not here to die... we simply are...

We are not here to live either... we simply are...

Wim

PS

It is not for nothing that Ramana calls "Who am I" a subjective inquiry that

eventually leads to the dissolution of the question "Who am I" into the

fullness of self evident being.

Je 'Accord!

Blessings,

Love,

Zenbob

[Guest guest]

"The mind asks, "if I am not here for some benefit then why am I

here?" And the answer to that is - we are here to die. Death takes

many forms, and the one we usually focus on is death of the body. But

there are other deaths that must be faced, and one of the most painful

for us is the death of hope. Hope is the belief that things will get

better. That the choices we make will lead to a more desirable

outcome. Very few can imagine a life without hope. A life without

hope seems like a life not worth living."

More to the point, however, in living, we are encumbered by the

necessary conditions of life and the duties that we both choose and

those that we simply must abide in order to maintain life in any

recognizable form. Eliminating the entire illusory discussion of

"hope" and focusing on the element of life itself, in a real

functional sense, reveals that of course, eventually we die, but that

is not the "point" anymore than to say that the point of sex is simply

to become exhausted at the end of the encounter. Things happen in

between, and these things have value. To reduce all of it to just

the absurdist reduction of "life ends in death: voila! why vote?"

ignores the greater reality of existence. We live to live, we do not

live to die. Death is like taxes...inevitable, but not something most

of us seek to encounter.

And yes, I think Wim's remarks are to the point...as the evidence and

opinions of NDE veterans suggest that they both enahnce their sense

of love for others, their own generosity of spirit and a sense of

purposefulness about life itself, rather than a Nihilist acceptance

of the inevitability of death.

I like a Grouch Marx quote:

"So my son asks me, Dad, you've seen that movie before, why are you

watching it again? You know how it turns out!"

"Yes, smarty, I do...but it still makes me laugh in between!"

Blessings,

Zenbob

[Guest guest]

, Wim Borsboom <wim@a...> wrote:

> Thanks b

>

> I quote from the essay in your post:

> "The mind asks, "if I am not here for some benefit then why am I

here?" And

> the answer to that is - we are here to die."

>

> I agree with much in that essay, of course... but it is at that

sentence

> above where my buck stops...

 

 

 

 

Dear Wim,

 

Perhaps including the full quote would clarify the sentence you

extracted:

 

"The mind asks, "if I am not here for some

benefit then why am I here?" And the answer to that is - we are here

to die. Death takes many forms, and the one we usually focus on is

death of the body. But there are other deaths that must be faced, and

one of the most painful for us is the death of hope. Hope is the

belief that things will get better. That the choices we make will

lead to a more desirable outcome. Very few can imagine a life without

hope. A life without hope seems like a life not worth living."

 

You may recall, the subject we were discussing was Choice, and so

consequently the thrust of your remarks, although very thoughtful,

was not actually pertinent to the essay's theme. Nevertheless, I

would enjoy exploring the NDE consideration with you in a subsequent

post.

 

LoveAlways,

 

b

[Guest guest]

Dear Bob,

> Perhaps including the full quote would clarify the sentence you extracted:

<snip>

 

I appreciate what you are saying Bob, but the, in my view, fallacious death

paradigm colours anything that it is applied to with darker shades instead

of light...

I understand it of course and I read and I follow... but I feel I do not

need to turn into a dark-no-exit-alley when I see another passage with light

at the end of the tunnel...

>>>You may recall, the subject we were discussing was Choice, and so

consequently the thrust of your remarks, although very thoughtful, was not

actually pertinent to the essay's theme.<<<

 

You are right, I guess I just wanted to mount my hobby horse. :-)

> Nevertheless, I would enjoy exploring the NDE consideration with you in a

subsequent post.

 

Aha, taking my proverbial horse into that proverbial tunnel and leading it

to the light (or was that the proverbial water?)

 

Wim.

 

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