Guest guest Posted July 8, 2002 Report Share Posted July 8, 2002 , "dan330033" <dan330033> wrote: > , Greg Goode <goode@D...> wrote: the bodhisattva yet continues > to strive to save all beings! This is the magic, the beauty of > Buddhism! > > > > Amituofo, > > > > --Greg > > What is magical and beautiful about > that for you, Greg? > > Amituofo, > > Dan I like tofu too now and then guys! :-). Greg once said that unless you start weeping ocean of tears when you hear the word Boddhisattva, he would not explain the teaching (or the teaching could not be given), because it was too precious and stuff for dry stone hearted folks. Yes, I am putting words in Greg's mouth (that's the beauty and magic) but the question is Sri Danji, do you start crying when you hear the word Boddhisattva? Are you willing to give the tears a try! Since I can cry a river of tears about many things, I can certainly cry about Boddhisattvas not wanting to attain Nirvana before "poor little other folk" have had a chance to go through the gate! Thank God for the great humor in these philosophies and religions. Certainly, there is some truth and fiction in every tale but the beauty and the magic is what we give it, it seems to me. Every story is about us and we are the beauty and the magic in every story. That's how it is. If there is beauty and magic in some concept or a person or a story, we are the source of it. I personally find nothing magical and beautiful about a Boddhisattva that cannot be found in a bannana or a mango (that's for you JanB) or a whey protein drink (that's for you DavidB). Which does not mean that Boddhisattvas are not beautiful and magical. But honestly, I would prefer a root beer float on a hot summer day. In this moment, who needs to be saved, who needs to save others, and who needs Nirvana? Hey, whatever you need, go and get it. OK with me. Love to all. Thanks for all the great poetry, stories, and all your beautiful hearts. Love, Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2002 Report Share Posted July 9, 2002 and who needs Nirvana? Hi Harsha: I couldn't agree more, if by this you are referring to the Seattle Grunge band with the deceased suicidal lead singer, Kurt Kobain. However, if you are referring to the state of total non-attainment, non-attachment, beyond life and deathness, Buddhist Heaven Without the Harps and Winged Critters flitting about, then I must pause and wonder. Could we not all use a bit of Nirvana from moment to moment to lighten our burdens? True, the root beer float is delightful, and on these hot summer days, no doubt more immediately slaking than a Bodhisattva...(oops there I go, crying me a river of pungent tears at the thought!) but if a Bodhisattva can once in a while point his too beautiful grace imbued finger in the vague direction of the Right Path, when travellers are stumbling about in the gravel of their lives, suffering from heatstroke and smog inhalation, and his very breath sweetens the air, his words a balm on their confused thoughts, his ineffable patience and beneficience able to raise them even a millimeter closer to the True Autobahn... Then I ask, Harsha... Isn't it worth a moment of gratitude? At least, perhaps the return of the favor? For, if, as is suggested, a Bodhisattva forsakes the Infinite Union, out of love for the wee folk who trudge in illusion, risking full well his/her own loss of the revered state of grace through the inevitable entanglement of life---then, if this same Boshisattva has made it possible for one or more Wee Folk to make the upward grade to Autobahn Meister, crossing the divide into that Golden Moment that Never Ends, shouldn't the now "fully Enlightened One(s)" glance back and out of grateful appreciation make a brief attempt to grab the tarnished Bodhisattva's hand and yank him/her headfirst (halo and all) into the Beyond That Has No Boundaries? Just asking... It's sort of a favorite discussion point here on the farm with the Peacocks and Goats debating the finer points of this for hours on end. The chickens, bless their souls, are too simple to follow these discussions, and just cluck appreciatively at the moments when a real solid riposte is launched. The geese, I fear, are too pragmatic, and simply snort mockingly at the whole thing. Clearly, there is as much divirsity of opinion here, in my own "backyard" as there is in the larger world--or even on the Satsangh. Love, Blessings, Zenbob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2002 Report Share Posted July 9, 2002 , "harshaimtm" wrote: > , "dan330033" <dan330033> wrote: > > , Greg Goode <goode@D...> wrote: > > the bodhisattva yet continues > > to strive to save all beings! This is the magic, the beauty of > > Buddhism! > > > > > > Amituofo, > > > > > > --Greg > > > > What is magical and beautiful about > > that for you, Greg? > > > > Amituofo, > > > > Dan > > I like tofu too now and then guys! :-). Yes, happy tofu to you, too, Harsha! Greg once said that unless > you start weeping ocean of tears when you hear the word Boddhisattva, > he would not explain the teaching (or the teaching could not be > given), I wasn't asking for a teaching, Harsha. I was merely asking what is magical and beautiful about it for Greg, to have clarity about what is was that he was saying. because it was too precious and stuff for dry stone hearted > folks. Maybe the dry stone hearted folks are the ones who divide humanity into those who are dry and those who aren't :-) Yes, I am putting words in Greg's mouth (that's the beauty and > magic) but the question is Sri Danji, do you start crying when you > hear the word Boddhisattva? No, it's just a word appearing on my computer screen. I hope you have a couple of kleenexes handy, since this word has now appeared twice. > Are you willing to give the tears a try! I have shed a tear in response to someone who is with me, sharing a deep sense of hurting -- not when a word is posted on an e-mail message. > Since I can cry a river of tears about many things, I can certainly > cry about Boddhisattvas not wanting to attain Nirvana before "poor > little other folk" have had a chance to go through the gate! This would be to cry over an idea, Harsha. Thank > God for the great humor in these philosophies and religions. > > Certainly, there is some truth and fiction in every tale but the > beauty and the magic is what we give it, it seems to me. Yes, to me, too. And that was what my inquiry was into. What is the beauty and the magic you have given this concept, what is it for you? Every story > is about us and we are the beauty and the magic in every story. > That's how it is. If there is beauty and magic in some concept or a > person or a story, we are the source of it. Yes. We are the source for the whole story, the beings who are hurting, the ones who shed tears for them, and the ones who are "dry" to use your word. All are equally arising as the beings constructed in this story which has made me and them. > > I personally find nothing magical and beautiful about a Boddhisattva > that cannot be found in a bannana or a mango (that's for you JanB) or > a whey protein drink (that's for you DavidB). Yes, the magic would seem to be in the entire myth, the story as a whole. And the dropping away of the story opens as the source of beauty and magic, but also of ugliness and dullness, and so beyond being beautiful or ugly, yet inclusive of each. > Which does not mean that Boddhisattvas are not beautiful and magical. > But honestly, I would prefer a root beer float on a hot summer day. > In this moment, who needs to be saved, who needs to save others, and > who needs Nirvana? Quite so. Hey, whatever you need, go and get it. > > OK with me. > > Love to all. Thanks for all the great poetry, stories, and all your > beautiful hearts. And thanks for your beautiful heart and loving response. -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2002 Report Share Posted July 9, 2002 Hey guys, What is magical and beautiful about Buddhism for me? The twin teachings of compassion and wisdom. Specifically, I was referring to the Mahayanist Bodhisattva ideal. In some scriptures and Buddhist traditions, this ideal is ahimsa and compassion made proactive and elevated to cosmic proportions. Like a grandiose work of art. What to me is beautiful is the huge ideal that all suffering is to be eradicated. What is magical or wonderful to me is the wisdom teaching: all the compassion happens without any belief or conviction or feeling that there is an inherently existent being or quality anywhere. Love, --Greg At 12:39 PM 7/9/02 +0000, dan330033 wrote: >, "harshaimtm" wrote: >> , "dan330033" <dan330033> wrote: >> > , Greg Goode <goode@D...> wrote: >> >> the bodhisattva yet continues >> > to strive to save all beings! This is the magic, the beauty of >> > Buddhism! >> > > >> > > Amituofo, >> > > >> > > --Greg >> > >> > What is magical and beautiful about >> > that for you, Greg? >> > >> > Amituofo, >> > >> > Dan >> >> I like tofu too now and then guys! :-). > > >Yes, happy tofu to you, too, Harsha! > > Greg once said that unless >> you start weeping ocean of tears when you hear the word >Boddhisattva, >> he would not explain the teaching (or the teaching could not be >> given), > >I wasn't asking for a teaching, Harsha. >I was merely asking what is magical and beautiful about > it for Greg, to have clarity about what is was that > he was saying. > > >because it was too precious and stuff for dry stone hearted >> folks. > >Maybe the dry stone hearted folks are the ones who divide > humanity into those who are dry and those who aren't :-) > > Yes, I am putting words in Greg's mouth (that's the beauty and >> magic) but the question is Sri Danji, do you start crying when you >> hear the word Boddhisattva? > >No, it's just a word appearing on my computer screen. > >I hope you have a couple of kleenexes handy, since > this word has now appeared twice. > >> Are you willing to give the tears a try! > >I have shed a tear in response to someone who is with > me, sharing a deep sense of hurting -- > not when a word is posted on an e-mail message. > >> Since I can cry a river of tears about many things, I can certainly >> cry about Boddhisattvas not wanting to attain Nirvana before "poor >> little other folk" have had a chance to go through the gate! > >This would be to cry over an idea, Harsha. > >Thank >> God for the great humor in these philosophies and religions. >> >> Certainly, there is some truth and fiction in every tale but the >> beauty and the magic is what we give it, it seems to me. > >Yes, to me, too. > >And that was what my inquiry was into. > >What is the beauty and the magic you have given > this concept, what is it for you? > > >Every story >> is about us and we are the beauty and the magic in every story. >> That's how it is. If there is beauty and magic in some concept or a >> person or a story, we are the source of it. > >Yes. We are the source for the whole > story, the beings who are hurting, > the ones who shed tears for them, > and the ones who are "dry" to use your word. > >All are equally arising as the beings constructed > in this story which has made me and them. > > >> >> I personally find nothing magical and beautiful about a >Boddhisattva >> that cannot be found in a bannana or a mango (that's for you JanB) >or >> a whey protein drink (that's for you DavidB). > >Yes, the magic would seem to be > in the entire myth, the story > as a whole. > >And the dropping away of the story > opens as the source of beauty > and magic, but also of ugliness > and dullness, and so beyond > being beautiful or ugly, yet > inclusive of each. > >> Which does not mean that Boddhisattvas are not beautiful and >magical. >> But honestly, I would prefer a root beer float on a hot summer day. >> In this moment, who needs to be saved, who needs to save others, >and >> who needs Nirvana? > >Quite so. > > > Hey, whatever you need, go and get it. >> >> OK with me. >> >> Love to all. Thanks for all the great poetry, stories, and all your >> beautiful hearts. > >And thanks for your beautiful > heart and loving response. > >-- Dan > > > >/join > > > > > >All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. > > > >Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2002 Report Share Posted July 9, 2002 Hi Greg -- Thanks for sharing your wisdom and compassion. And ... if all the suffering is eliminated, then we don't get to have the scriptures, traditions, proactivity, wisdom and magic around "eliminating suffering." Reminds me of Ramana saying, "it's to thicken the plot." The bodhisattva reminds me of Jesus saying, "be in the world, but not of the world." Which reminds me ... I'm late for lunch ... Bye now, Dan , Greg Goode <goode@D...> wrote: > Hey guys, > > What is magical and beautiful about Buddhism for me? The twin teachings of compassion and wisdom. Specifically, I was referring to the Mahayanist Bodhisattva ideal. In some scriptures and Buddhist traditions, this ideal is ahimsa and compassion made proactive and elevated to cosmic proportions. Like a grandiose work of art. What to me is beautiful is the huge ideal that all suffering is to be eradicated. > > What is magical or wonderful to me is the wisdom teaching: all the compassion happens without any belief or conviction or feeling that there is an inherently existent being or quality anywhere. > > Love, > > --Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2002 Report Share Posted July 9, 2002 , "dan330033" <dan330033> wrote: >Which reminds me ... I'm late for lunch ... Bin Go was one of the greatest Zen Masters during the Song Dynasty in China. When he was twenty years old, his teacher gave him a koan: 'Where was I before I was born, and where will I go after I die'. He later wrote that, as he pondered the question, he felt altogether dazed by his own delusions, and rather hungry for the nnon meal, besides. After three years passed and Bin Go was unable to attain any break- through (even though he had eaten pretty well by luncheoen standards), he went to see the famous Zen Master Shor Am. Bin Go told him of his failure to penetrate the koan, and asked for his help. 'We have been told', said the Master, 'that all beings have Buddha- nature. This is the teaching of all Buddhas, past, present, and future. However, when a monk came to Zen Master Rin Tin and asked if cooks have Buddha-nature, Rin Tin said `Have you already eaten your lunch?'. What was on their menu?' Bin Go was speechless. As he struggled to come up with an answer, the Master took his cane and whacked him a good one on the shoulder, and then sent him to his room without lunch. Frustrated and nursing a bruised collarbone, Bin Go returned to his room. He couldn't get Shor Am's question out of his mind when suddenly, like a match lit in a dark cave, an awakening spread until it filled his whole being. The answer to his original koan was now crystal clear. The next day, as he was working in the monastery kitchen, Shor Am came to visit. He said: 'Good Morning. How is your search coming along?' Bin Go replied: 'If a man stops searching, he will surely find what he is looking for." Quickly the master grabbed him by his shirt and shouted: 'Who is dragging this corpse around?'. Although Bin Go had understood the question perfectly, he again went drop-jaw and could only stare like a moron. The Master pushed him away and left, skipping lunch himself. The poor guy was so troubled by this new failure that he couldn't eat for days. Then, one night, his first teacher appeared to him in a dream and asked: If you've been drinking beer all day long, why do you still claim you haven't touched a drop?' When he woke up, he found that all his doubts and confusion had coalesced into one mass, which weighed on his heart like a huge rock. For five days he walked about in a stupor. On the sixth day he wandered into the great dining hall of the monastery, where the monks happened to be commemorating the death of the fifth patriarch of the I' Tchi school over a big meal. For the occasion, they had hung up a portrait of the patriarch, on which he himself had inscribed the following stanza: After all is said and done I've finally got a hunch – when all is said and done for most it all comes down to `What's for lunch?' As Bin Go read the last word, a realization burst upon him. 'At that moment', he later wrote, 'I felt as if the whole universe had been chopped up into tiny pieces of chicken liver. There was no I, there was no world. It was like one pancake reflecting another. I asked myself several koans, and the answers were damn clear!' The next day he went to see Shor Am. The Master asked him: 'Who is dragging around this lifeless body of yours?' Bin Go shouted: `Wahoo -- Let's eat!' The Master took hold of his stick, but Bin Go snatched it out of his hand and said: `No way, man – you can't touch this today!' Shor Am asked: 'Why not?'. Bin Go got up and walked out of the room, ostensibly to get a snack. Some time later, another Zen Master visited Bin Go and said: 'Congratulations, I hear you have attained the great enlightenment'. Bin Go smilingly replied: 'Thank you.' The Master asked: 'Can you maintain this state at all times?' 'Yes, indeed'. 'While you are working, lunching, sleeping, or dreaming?' 'Yes, even in dreams'. 'How about in dreamless sleep, where there is no sight or sound or consciousness. Where is your enlightenment then, Pal?' Seeing that Bin Go couldn't answer, the Master said: `Son -- let me give you a little piece of advice: when you are hungry, eat lunch. When you are tired, rest. The minute you wake up every morning, ask yourself: `Who is the master of this body, and where does he go for lunch?'. This ought to clear things up for you.' Bin Go went to work on this question without interruption, even skipping breakfast sometimes 9but not lunch). One day, after about five years or so, a friend invited him along on a pilgrimage up north somewhere. On their way they stopped off at a motel. Exhausted, the friend fell asleep immediately. Bin Go sat in a corner and meditated. At one point, his friend farted in his bed. Bing Go heard the noise, his mind blew, and the whole universe was flooded with pickles and chips. He understood not only his own koan, but all the koans handed down by Ixnay and the patriarchs. He felt like a distant traveler who had finally come home for lunch. At this moment of great awakening, he composed the following stanza: The man who has come to this is the man who was here from the beginning. He does what he always did, sitting at the lunch table. Nothing has changed, except now, I have a good idea for a game! LoveAlways, b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2002 Report Share Posted July 9, 2002 Thank you for sharing the fruits of your many years of labor, Bob, culiminating in the realization that a monk won't get drunk at a salad bar. Speaking of dreams, it was a great moment for me, when Pahzt Mashda appeared to me from Tibet in a reverie and told me that a snack is fine with wine, but a Snicker's with liquors is quicker. So much for sobreity. I'm reminded at this moment of Wun Hung Lo and the day his staff-weilding master had a glass of wine with lunch and missed Wun's shoulder blade while swinging wildly. Good thing Wun came to a sudden realization. It is said that the beads of sweat sprung like daisies from his koan area. Which reminds me of all the koans handed down by Hu Yi, Lu Wis, and Da Nuhz. Even better than Ixnay and the Patriarchs, except if you really love a back beat. Not losing the news or the back beat, Dan > Bin Go was one of the greatest Zen Masters during the Song Dynasty in > China. > When he was twenty years old, his teacher gave him a koan: > 'Where was I before I was born, and where will I go after I die'. > He later wrote that, as he pondered the question, he felt altogether > dazed by his own delusions, and rather hungry for the nnon meal, > besides. > > After three years passed and Bin Go was unable to attain any break- > through (even though he had eaten pretty well by luncheoen > standards), he went to see the famous Zen Master Shor Am. Bin Go told > him of his failure to penetrate the koan, and asked for his help. > 'We have been told', said the Master, 'that all beings have Buddha- > nature. This is the teaching of all Buddhas, past, present, and > future. However, when a monk came to Zen Master Rin Tin and asked if > cooks have Buddha-nature, Rin Tin said `Have you already eaten your > lunch?'. What was on their menu?' > Bin Go was speechless. As he struggled to come up with an answer, the > Master took his cane and whacked him a good one on the shoulder, and > then sent him to his room without lunch. > > Frustrated and nursing a bruised collarbone, Bin Go returned to his > room. He couldn't get Shor Am's question out of his mind when > suddenly, like a match lit in a dark cave, an awakening spread until > it filled his whole being. The answer to his original koan was now > crystal clear. > The next day, as he was working in the monastery kitchen, Shor Am > came to visit. He said: > 'Good Morning. How is your search coming along?' > Bin Go replied: > 'If a man stops searching, he will surely find what he is looking > for." > Quickly the master grabbed him by his shirt and shouted: > 'Who is dragging this corpse around?'. > Although Bin Go had understood the question perfectly, he again went > drop-jaw and could only stare like a moron. > The Master pushed him away and left, skipping lunch himself. > > The poor guy was so troubled by this new failure that he couldn't eat > for days. Then, one night, his first teacher appeared to him in a > dream and asked: > If you've been drinking beer all day long, why do you still claim you > haven't touched a drop?' When he woke up, he found that all his > doubts and confusion had coalesced into one mass, which weighed on > his heart like a huge rock. For five days he walked about in a > stupor. On the sixth day he wandered into the great dining hall of > the monastery, where the monks happened to be commemorating the death > of the fifth patriarch of the I' Tchi school over a big meal. For the > occasion, they had hung up a portrait of the patriarch, on which he > himself had inscribed the following stanza: > > After all is said and done > I've finally got a hunch – > when all is said and done > for most > it all comes down to > `What's for lunch?' > > As Bin Go read the last word, a realization burst upon him. > 'At that moment', he later wrote, 'I felt as if the whole universe > had been chopped up into tiny pieces of chicken liver. There was no > I, there was no world. It was like one pancake reflecting another. I > asked myself several koans, and the answers were damn clear!' > > The next day he went to see Shor Am. > The Master asked him: > 'Who is dragging around this lifeless body of yours?' > Bin Go shouted: `Wahoo -- Let's eat!' > The Master took hold of his stick, but Bin Go snatched it out of his > hand and said: > `No way, man – you can't touch this today!' > Shor Am asked: > 'Why not?'. > Bin Go got up and walked out of the room, ostensibly to get a snack. > > Some time later, another Zen Master visited Bin Go and said: > 'Congratulations, I hear you have attained the great enlightenment'. > Bin Go smilingly replied: > 'Thank you.' > The Master asked: > 'Can you maintain this state at all times?' > 'Yes, indeed'. > 'While you are working, lunching, sleeping, or dreaming?' > 'Yes, even in dreams'. > 'How about in dreamless sleep, where there is no sight or sound or > consciousness. Where is your enlightenment then, Pal?' > Seeing that Bin Go couldn't answer, the Master said: > `Son -- let me give you a little piece of advice: when you are > hungry, eat lunch. When you are tired, rest. The minute you wake up > every morning, ask yourself: > `Who is the master of this body, and where does he go for lunch?'. > This ought to clear things up for you.' > > Bin Go went to work on this question without interruption, even > skipping breakfast sometimes 9but not lunch). One day, after about > five years or so, a friend invited him along on a pilgrimage up north > somewhere. On their way they stopped off at a motel. Exhausted, the > friend fell asleep immediately. Bin Go sat in a corner and meditated. > At one point, his friend farted in his bed. Bing Go heard the noise, > his mind blew, and the whole universe was flooded with pickles and > chips. He understood not only his own koan, but all the koans handed > down by Ixnay and the patriarchs. He felt like a distant traveler who > had finally come home for lunch. At this moment of great awakening, > he composed the following stanza: > > The man who has come to this > is the man who was here from the beginning. > He does what he always did, sitting > at the lunch table. > Nothing has changed, except > now, I have a good idea for a game! > > > > LoveAlways, > > b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2002 Report Share Posted July 9, 2002 , "dan330033" <dan330033> wrote: >Thank you for sharing the fruits of your many years of labor, Bob, culiminating in the realization that a monk won't get drunk at a salad bar. .....Think nothing of it, Revered Danji -- the only things spiked near this salad bar are the Bodhisattva Root Beer Floats! >Speaking of dreams, it was a great moment for me, when Pahzt Mashda appeared to me from Tibet in a reverie and told me that a snack is fine with wine, but a Snicker's with liquors is quicker. ..... Edifying, indeed -- that fellow sure gets around! >So much for sobreity. ....it was over-rated anyway! >I'm reminded at this moment of Wun Hung Lo and the day his staff-weilding master had a glass of wine with lunch and missed Wun's shoulder blade while swinging wildly. Good thing Wun came to a sudden realization. It is said that the beads of sweat sprung like daisies from his koan area. ..... and that, before tank tops! >Which reminds me of all the koans handed down by Hu Yi, Lu Wis, and Da Nuhz. Even better than Ixnay and the Patriarchs, except if you really love a back beat. ....i'll opt for the back massage, thank you! >Not losing the news or the back beat, Dan ....what can never be lost is always front page news, it seems! Love'nTickles, b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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