Guest guest Posted July 15, 2002 Report Share Posted July 15, 2002 on 7/13/02 5:32 AM, Wim Borsboom at wim (AT) aurasphere (DOT) org wrote: Hi Shawn and Zenbob. Shawn wrote: > Sorry, no. those are just concepts. Unity is a concept. > No one will ever experience unity...but they may come close! I believe it was Shawn who said that. Shawn, just a small request, could you make it more clear in you responses "who says what", the ===== are confusing... I find it important to follow your conversations... but could you make it a little easier on the reader. I ask, because years ago someone else asked me... And I appreciated that. >>Sorry Wim ...but more importantly we should realise when we speak, who is it ? By this, I mean is it Shawn or the One being Shawn. The One who is being us is always present and yet mostly overlooked...when this overlooking is happening we get possesive about "our" ideas. Right and wrong action looms its' ugly head...and I say ugly purely only to make a point... It is always the ego-mind and those who are completely a slave to it, and thereby failing to*notice*the possesive and identifying character that always describes it, that is responsible for the most henious crimes against humanity, and always i might add in the name of goodness and righteousness. When I am busy being Shawn, whether or not I have the best intentions at heart, I am supplying the world with fuel for the good-bad war that will always take place as long as we fail to see ourselves as this identity with beliefs and ideas that we like or dislike. Philosophical presumptions don't touch this identification! We must simply *notice* our thoughts, ideas, "our preferences" ...this witnessing is without thought and judgement, if you *do* it, then that is "you", the ego again...sometimes ( most often) we are too rapped up in being who we think we are, to be able to notice this *aspect of our selves* : the simple noticing of "things".....when you do notice, you realise you are not really there; Shawn is not really a "thing" or a noun, but "Shawning" is happening, then things aren't personal in that way anymore and you can see peace and even a true possibility for it! When we get tired of our search for unity or even "understanding" we begin to fall out the bottom of ourselves, because there IS NO FOUNDATION, serious motivation as a seperate individual is undermined, who we are as LOVE is dawning and that shines through the "personality"... ....I respond to posts on a personal level as I hear what comes through a particular individual and what I say to Zenbob is not meant to be taken as anything but a response to him and what he was saying..... I am not interested in talking philosophy, I am interested in what people are finding as their experience. The mind is a looping trick and it is afraid to be discovered and so we hear things like , "but how do you know what you experienced is the truth?" The mind is doubtful of everything and cannot exist in the present. This talk of doing good is afraid that there is no reward for doing good and so mightily defends its cause, ...but what if....well "I did all that for nothing?" We experience unity at the very same "moment" we experience twoness, let me just be bold and call it that. The twoness and oneness synchronize... there is no collision there...none whatsoever... .. It is "momentous". >>nice try, really it was, I know what you mean..... Two rolls into one, and vice versa, enfoldment unfoldment, it is even scientifically sound... In the oneness/twoness time is/isn't >>yes...hummm wonderful the way words fall so short.... That is not a concept, that is the most fabulous experience... In the oneness/twoness space is/isn't >>what is your experience? No philosophy......., you Wim......... do you watch "yourself" perform as if "you" are an unknown thing agreeing to pretend to be Wim? lovewhereherethere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2002 Report Share Posted July 15, 2002 I wrote: > The idea of "preteens and not knowing" DOES happen though > in the boggy valleys or the dehydrated "thoughty"outcrops of > the human mind. Hehehe, "preteens" was supposed to read "pretence"..., too quick a click on the spell checker's "change" button. I liked it better when it was "preteens" since this conjured a vivid image, understood all too well by most of us about the relative lack of experience, unformed thinking and immaturity of most pre-teens. Maybe the spell checker is also some sort of Wise Shaman... Seriously, I think your comments are very thoughtful and the example of the pine trees and pine cones a very poetic and useful one. Blessings, Peace, Zenbob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2002 Report Share Posted July 15, 2002 Hi Shawn, thanks! I wrote: >> That is not a concept, that is the most fabulous experience... Shawn wrote: > what is your experience? No philosophy......., > you Wim......... do you watch "yourself" perform > as if "you" are an unknown thing agreeing to pretend > to be Wim? No Shawn, I don't. None of that "watching", "performing", "pretending" plays in the moment of experience. > I am not interested in talking philosophy, > I am interested in what people are finding > as their experience. Right! Just freewheeling here, Shawn, do not take what I write here to mean that I refute your email. Just expanding on it. At a certain time of the year pine cones fall off the pine trees in the thousands around here. When my son was about eight years old, he was in great wonder about the fact that in spite of pine cones being so identical, that pine trees could be so different in shape from each other. Where we live, we can have a 150 ft high pine tree and a 3 to 4 feet high bonsai like pine of the same age, right next to each other. Their size only depending on whether once, say eighty years ago, a seed fell on a windblown and sun dried rocky outcrop or in a shady boggy valley right next to it. We may draw a parallel to humans beings..., the identical-ness from which we sprout and the variations in which we grow up. I nature we do not question a bonsai or a giant fir to establish whether their shape is a result of some mal-function or dys-function... In fact we are more often in awe of the appropriateness of their expression of presence. We do not ask the trees if they are "pretending" what they are, if they are "performing", or... if they "know who they are, or what". In nature we only find unquestioning response to conditions. I believed my son's expression on his face fully, when he said that the bonsai was happy being a bonsai, as it was so in agreement with the conditions that created it's destined shape. Nor did I question the same expression my son showed, when he was in awe about the grandness of that giant pine whose top was as high as the bonsai but whose roots were some 150 feet lower. The idea of "pretence" and "not knowing what it itself is" does not occur in the natural world, a world that is by definition devoid of dys- or mal-function. The natural world is a world of functioning, an intricate play of positive interference, multi-dimensional constructive expressions of beingness. The idea of "preteens and not knowing" DOES happen though in the boggy valleys or the dehydrated "thoughty"outcrops of the human mind. Ah, that oft mal-functioning human mind... that strange aspect of "denatured" human nature, so foreign to human/divine nature. > what is your experience? No philosophy......., I wonder if we actually can separate experience from philosophy and vice versa. Philosophy is the love for truth, and experience is nothing else but being truth, being in the "know". "Figuring things out" belongs to experience AND philosophy, questioning, doubt and judgement do not... Questioning, doubt and judgement are "out of this world" phenomena... Questioning, doubt and judgement are what mentally occurs when experience is not validated. The mind usually shows up as a mental dys-function caused by the (often moral) devaluation of experiences..., occurring when experiences are denied or not allowed to be had, when experiences are deemed not to have happened or when experiences are deemed that they "ought not have happened". Wim (Sum) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2002 Report Share Posted July 15, 2002 I wrote: > The idea of "preteens and not knowing" DOES happen though > in the boggy valleys or the dehydrated "thoughty"outcrops of > the human mind. Hehehe, "preteens" was supposed to read "pretence"..., too quick a click on the spell checker's "change" button. Wim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.