Guest guest Posted July 19, 2002 Report Share Posted July 19, 2002 , "dan330033" <dan330033> wrote: > , "pearlwhiterainbow" <white_rainbow@h...> > wrote: > > , "dan330033" <dan330033> wrote: > > > Hi Colette, > > > > > > Dogen said, > > > "It isn't that firewood is burned and becomes ash. > > > There is wood, there is burning, there is ash." > > > > > > This is also similar to what you posted about each phenomenon > > > being in the place of that phenomenon, and is similar > > > to what you said about the fish and bird, each in their > > > place. > > > > > > There is wood, there is burning, there is ash. > > > > Yes, there's Source & there's .. other stuff! > > > > I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. > > Yes. > > And if they are not mutually exclusive, then > they are not Source and other stuff. > > This is the pointing that Dogen gives, > each phenomenon is that phenomenon > in its place, as it is. I like this. > > There isn't movement from phenomenon > to Source and back to phenomomenon. No movement? Dependent arising? :-) > > That's not what is happening. > > There isn't anyone who could move > from one to the other, so no > one and another. Ooo nice, but I still feel that a fish enjoys movement, & that movement brings bliss to the ocean. "Now if a bird or a fish tries to reach the end of its element before moving in it, this bird or this fish will not find its way or its place. When you find your place where you are, practice occurs, actualizing the fundamental point. When you find your way at this moment, practice occurs, actualizing the fundamental point; for the place, the way, is neither large nor small, neither yours nor others. The place, the way, has not carried over from the past, and it is not merely arising now. Accordingly, in the practice-enlightenment of the buddha way, to attain one thing is to penetrate one thing; to meet one practice is to sustain one practice. Here is the place; here the way unfolds." Dogen Nice sharing Dan, Col Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2002 Report Share Posted July 19, 2002 Hi, Don't we have to be careful to avoid the "eternalist/nihilist" trap? John L. , "pearlwhiterainbow" <white_rainbow@h...> wrote: > , "dan330033" <dan330033> wrote: > > , "pearlwhiterainbow" > <white_rainbow@h...> > > wrote: > > > , "dan330033" <dan330033> wrote: > > > > Hi Colette, > > > > > > > > Dogen said, > > > > "It isn't that firewood is burned and becomes ash. > > > > There is wood, there is burning, there is ash." > > > > > > > > This is also similar to what you posted about each phenomenon > > > > being in the place of that phenomenon, and is similar > > > > to what you said about the fish and bird, each in their > > > > place. > > > > > > > > There is wood, there is burning, there is ash. > > > > > > Yes, there's Source & there's .. other stuff! > > > > > > I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. > > > > Yes. > > > > And if they are not mutually exclusive, then > > they are not Source and other stuff. > > > > This is the pointing that Dogen gives, > > each phenomenon is that phenomenon > > in its place, as it is. > > I like this. > > > > > There isn't movement from phenomenon > > to Source and back to phenomomenon. > > No movement? Dependent arising? > > :-) > > > > > > That's not what is happening. > > > > There isn't anyone who could move > > from one to the other, so no > > one and another. > > Ooo nice, but I still feel that a fish enjoys movement, & that > movement brings bliss to the ocean. > > "Now if a bird or a fish tries to reach the end of its element before > moving in it, this bird or this fish will not find its way or its > place. > > When you find your place where you are, practice occurs, actualizing > the fundamental point. > > When you find your way at this moment, practice occurs, actualizing > the fundamental point; for the place, the way, is neither large nor > small, neither yours nor others. > > The place, the way, has not carried over from the past, and it is not > merely arising now. > > Accordingly, in the practice-enlightenment of the buddha way, to > attain one thing is to penetrate one thing; to meet one practice is > to sustain one practice. > > Here is the place; here the way unfolds." > > Dogen > > > Nice sharing Dan, > > Col Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2002 Report Share Posted July 19, 2002 Yes! At 12:52 AM 7/20/02 +0000, johnrloganis wrote: >Hi, >Don't we have to be careful to avoid the "eternalist/nihilist" trap? >John L. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2002 Report Share Posted July 20, 2002 Hi Col -- > > There isn't movement from phenomenon > > to Source and back to phenomomenon. > > No movement? Dependent arising? > > :-) Yes, and interdependent -- well-said :-) > Ooo nice, but I still feel that a fish enjoys movement, & that > movement brings bliss to the ocean. There is a movement in which there is no fish to be known as a fish, definable as a being apart from an ocean. You could say that it is ocean alive, living through the fish, without any separable awareness of a fish-entity ... With no fish to give it bliss, what is a poor ocean to do? Nothing in it, nothing outside of it ... Unimpeded movement, which is the same as stillness ... Thanks, Col, and what you shared from Dogen, too ... Love, Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2002 Report Share Posted July 20, 2002 , "dan330033" <dan330033> wrote: > There is a movement in which there is no > fish to be known as a fish, definable > as a being apart from an ocean. > > You could say that it is ocean alive, > living through the fish, without > any separable awareness of a fish-entity ... > > With no fish to give it bliss, what is > a poor ocean to do? Maybe stir the water a little? :-) > > Nothing in it, nothing outside of it ... > > Unimpeded movement, which is the same as stillness ... Ooooo that's almost sexy haha! > > Thanks, Col, and what you shared from Dogen, too ... > > Love, > Dan seeya Danmeister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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