the Dreaming River

[Guest guest]

on 8/1/02 10:16 AM, dan330033 at dan330033 wrote:

<snip>

>

> Making a statement is not the same

> thing as complaining, so what is

> involved in changing a statement

> to a complaint?

>

> -- Dan

 

Okay, okay, I confess,(waving hand in front of nose)

 

....I cut one.

 

grinding the wheels Danman?

 

Love,Shawn

[Guest guest]

on 8/1/02 10:18 AM, dan330033 at dan330033 wrote:

>> A fish will find time for admiration, served in a dish.

>> A place for reflection on the consumer's eyes.

>

> Food for public consumption ...

>

> -- Dan

 

 

 

I am reminded of not eating anything with a head on it...isn't it wonderful

that bacon is headless!

[Guest guest]

on 8/1/02 10:46 AM, dan330033 at dan330033 wrote:

>> snip

>> Perhaps One with no other is only a "phase."

>

> A phase only has meaning if there is a previous

> phase and a subsequent phase.

>

> Thus, one phase leads to another, endlessly.

>

> The sense of "progression" depends completely

> on the one believed to be moving from

> one phase into another.

>

> This one who moves through phases, can never

> be one with no other; for that one,

> the phase being moved into, and from,

> always constitutes an "other" ...

>

> -- Dan

........unless not.

[Guest guest]

on 8/1/02 11:05 AM, hrtbeat7 at hrtbeat7 wrote:

<snip> but we also know where to get good garlic

> crabs!

>

> LoveAlways,

>

> b

 

 

Ah! Always *peel* your garlic to avoid this nasty critter....

[Guest guest]

Everytime I sat for meditation, I found I was becoming enlightened!....so I

gave it up.

 

Shawn

 

 

 

 

on 8/1/02 11:33 AM, texasbg2000 at Bigbobgraham wrote:

> Patanjali: Feuerstein

> I. 31 Pain, depression, tremor of the limbs, [wrong] inhalation and

> exhalation are accompanying [symptoms] of the distractions.

>

> I. 32 In order to counteract these [distractions] [the yogin should

> resort to ] the practice [of concentration] on a single principle.

>

> I.33 The projection of friendliness, compassion gladness and

> equanimity towards objects-[be they] joyful, sorrowful, meritorious

> or demeritorious--[bring about] the pacification of consciousness.

>

> and then:

>

> III. 23--Through constraint on friendliness et cetera, he acquires

> powers.

>

> It seems to me that Patanjali writes that friendliness is the

> cureall. He listed the nine distractions {before the quote} and then

> the cure. Friendliness. Then later he mentions friendliness again.

> He says that constraint {focus} of friendliness gives one power. He

> later says that if one does not use this power it becomes like the

> elephant (infinite).

>

> Jesus used the word love in the same way. It is up to people to

> figure out what he and Patanjali meant. They obviously knew already

> and said these things which have been preserved for our benefit.

>

> What we project should be noted if we are sincere. Any problem is

> overcome by projecting friendliness toward objects, ideas, and

> ourselves.

>

> Love

> Bobby G.

>

>

> , v <amused@p...> wrote:

>> I must confess that although I savvy *namaste* - it is on a

> completely

>> different level. And these rednecks round here are all looking for a

>> "significant other", which doesn't work for me either. But I don't

>> understand this "burning love for everybody" - burning love - same

>> flame, etc. and it's making me cry because I really feel like I'm

>> missing something out, either that or everyone is being deliberately

>> cruel, which I doubt. How can someone be mated and still have

> burning

>> love for all the other men and women? What kind of love is that? Is

> it

>> agape the kind of love withheld for God, or is it real love for the

>> person as a person? I mean - noone knows me and as such no one

> loves me

>> and so I assume it is a love where the loved one is known by the

> lover

>> and returned by samesaid lover - so - what kind of love is that?

> Are we

>> talkin "romantic love" here? Or is it an especially hot "brotherly

> love"

>> which I am missing out on?

>> Is it a level one reaches after so many years of prayer and

> meditation?

>> Either way - it feels to me as if someone has gutted me with a fish

>> knife and my insides are spilling out, and the pain of the non-stop

>> tears, so I guess I don't get it.

>> Have a pleasant evening.

>> valerie

>

>

> Sponsor

>

> /join

>

>

>

>

>

> All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights,

> perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside

> back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the

> ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness.

> Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is

> where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being.

> A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising

> from within into It Self. Welcome all to a.

>

>

>

> Terms of Service

> <> .

[Guest guest]

teegee555 wrote:

, v <amused@p...>

wrote:

Hi Valerie...

<I must confess that although I savvy *namaste* - it is on a

completely

<different level. And these rednecks round here are all looking

for a

<"significant other", which doesn't work for me either.

I'm so happy to hear you are listening to yourself.

yeah - life's a bitch when yer scratchin' the wrong itch! hahahaha...lol,

etc.

<But I don't understand this "burning love

for everybody" - burning

love - same

<flame, etc. and it's making me cry because I really feel like

I'm

missing something

<out, either that or everyone is being deliberately cruel, which

I

doubt.

You are not missing anything! It is because you think

you don't

understand this 'burning love for everybody' that is making you

feel

something is missing... because you aren't feeling it.

yes ma'm!

< How can someone be mated and still have

burning

<love for all the other men and women? What kind

of love is that?

Is it agape the <kind of love withheld for God, or is it real

love

for the person as a person?

Like Jan said, let's take away the adjectives -- burning.

And what

do you have left? Just plain ol' Love, which is all there

is... It

is neither burning nor not burning. Maybe acceptance would

be a

better word? Like you said in your first paragraph,

"And these

rednecks round here are all looking for a "significant other",

which

doesn't work for me either." -- You have accepted where they are

AND

where you are. THAT is unconditional love. Period.

No more, no

less. No burning. (ouch)

no cause for antibiotics then?

Burning? Nah. That is left for those

in the honeymoon stages of

love.

like when they're busking and getting right after they get bookoo splinters?

(hardehar)

< I mean - noone knows me and as such no one

loves me

<and so I assume it is a love where the loved one is known by

the

lover

<and returned by samesaid lover - so - what kind of love is

that? Are

we

<talkin "romantic love" here?

Yep. You got it. Another adjective that describes

how one will

choose their love to be with another, but not all.

Romantic love is

not real in the sense that it is saved for one *special* person.

Now

if we could all be romantically in love with each other, that would

be cool. I find the more I let go of the idea of romantic

love for

that one special person, the more I fall in love with others (not

in

the 'as a couple' sense). My friends become lovers

and my lovers

become friends. None of it is burning or 'hot babyburnin'love',

but

a deep sense of acceptance.

oh baby baby! like in the movies! oh - but NOT like that - hmm, very perplexxing

- deep sense of acceptance like with the fairies and the little people...

 

<Or is it an especially hot "brotherly love" which I am missing

out

on?

You are not missing out on anything, and don't listen to anyone

that

says differently! I used to yearn to be all this loveydovey

(more

adj) with others like those I surrounded myself with. I couldn't

understand why I didn't feel it -- What was wrong with me?!

Even

group hugs from these people felt strained on my part. I

mean here,

I'm an empath and I couldn't pick up on the ''Love''? LOL

you got me here - gal - to a tee (gee) - hee hee!

Valerie, I've watched you over the years, and

you are quite the

empath too. You are as confused as I was (and still am at

times)

because what we see and hear and what we feel are not matching.

No

wonder we get confused. Trust the feelings at this time if

they are

not matching.

say wha'??? trust the feeling if they are NOT matching??? oh oh an

example of why we are confused - okay. Yup!

I'm with you there! (somebody just had to pull my car outta the ditch...)

Love cannot be seen nor heard, but it can be

extended. Love is who

you are. And if you are not feeling the love as what you

think you

should be feeling, that is perfectly okay and probably more on

the

nose that you would truly think. You know what is real and

what is

not real. I've seen your beauty, your creativity, and fantastic

abilities to know and express exactly what you are feeling.

The

only thing I've seen you possibly err with, is not honoring what

you

are feeling. And if I am right in you being the empath I

think you

are, that is perfectly normal.

thankyou teegee, thankyou, and thankyou! And back to you 3 times hence!

Look at your confusion or doubts to see if you

want to keep them or

not. Are you doubting yourself or another? Bring it

back to you,

the doubts about what you are feeling.

I realize there is a lot of trouble in the world with "love" today, and

I realize I was brutally beaten and abused as a child, so it makes me cry

when I don't understand because I think it's my err. I just have to ask,

that's all.

Honor that what you are feeling (no *burning*

love for everyone) is

what you, or someone else, may have defined love to be as " _(fill

in

the blanks_") and that you've taken it to heart. You

Valerie, are

just pure Love itself -- I feel it in every post of yours.

Keep

being yourself, as it is quite beautiful for all of us. That

is all

you need do.

thankyou - I don't know! (perplexed smiley)

You are Love, just as we all are. And we

can extend this love to

manifest it by accepting others exactly where they are. By

doing

this, we accept where we are. Here. Now.

Others may get offended

by this because they want you to go where they are... to a place

of

nonacceptance of where you are. But that is perfectly okay

too, as

this is where they are!

the above paragraph is SO COOL!!! I think I'd like to quote it sometime

- it is so applicable!

There is no right or wrong place. We are

all here now.

yes - but I'm over here now!

There is no better gift than this.

<Is it a level one reaches after so many years of prayer and

meditation?

There is no level one needs to reach inasfar as I know, and I've

been

on so many levels it would make your head spin. The best

level is

where you are now. You can do loads of prayers and meditation,

or

you can do nothing. Just be yourself, which you have always

done.

Be who you are -- Valerie. The more you begin to know

and accept

yourself, and honor this beautiful being instead of being confused

by

it, the more you will let go of all that is not you, easily.

thankyou.

<Either way - it feels to me as if someone

has gutted me with a fish

<knife and my insides are spilling out, and the pain of the

non-stop

<tears, so I guess I don't get it.

Oh, you get it. You just haven't accepted you. You've

accepted how

you *should* be. That is not you. I really love just

the way you

are and have been for years - your posts always make me feel

refreshed.

If you became all burning love for everyone, I'd have to gut myself

with a fish knife. :-)

lolololol!!

Big Hugs -- Now take that fish knife out and

let your insides go

ahead and spill out.

I already did - where'd they go????

hahahahaha!

love to all!

valerie

 

With Love,

xxxtg

 

 

<snip>

[Guest guest]

Me too...

That was when I still used to think...

Wim

 

 

hrtbeat7 [hrtbeat7]

Thursday, August 01, 2002 8:41 AM

Re: the Dreaming River

 

 

, "teegee555" <Teegee555@a...> wrote:

>Burning? Nah. That is left for those in the honeymoon stages of

love.

 

 

 

)))) i used to think so too.

 

 

 

LoveAlways,

 

b

 

 

 

 

/join

 

 

 

 

All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights,

perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside

back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than

the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness.

Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is

where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal

Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously

arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a.

 

 

 

Your use of is subject to

 

 

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[Guest guest]

ecirada wrote:

> Hi Val,

>

> Regarding "significant other", you don't miss one iota. Contrary to tigers,

> humans are experiencing an ongoing mating season which easily gets interpreted

> as 'love'. The mating procedure creates a type of bonding similar to that in

animals

> like swans which isn't removed without pain, as therapists are likely to know.

> The link to the "great love" shows when the mating issue gets transcended.

 

hi Jan,

yes - to be as simple and as noble as a tiger - but then don't their cubs

have various fathers? There is not the complicated psychological miasma which

forebodes the humans and those with bonds (my apologies to those who are bonded,

hats off - all that!) but a footlooseness and detachment which I wish I could

attain in my life. And yet there's the horrid cuisine - shredded ripped raw

flesh, live insects, grubs and raw intestines - I'm not sure it's worth it, love

or no love...

> So what could be missing is the solid experience that the "mating issue" is

> but a subset of what burns out all bodies in a never ending succession - the

life force.

> The life-force is no other then the Self, self-evident, needing neither

explanation nor

> rituals although explanations and rituals abound, like tantric mating :-)

> As to no surprise, the life-force sometimes is called "water of life" and

> like 'ordinary' water, shows the highest pressure at the lowest orifice :-)

>

> Peace,

> Jan

>

 

so you say the "life force" is the "Self" is the "tantric", do you? I

find that

interesting cos other people just call it "sex" and go to girlie movies or XXX

websites on the internet (hehehe!) Man! That force is strong - it is SO subtle

but it runs all life on earth! As for mating or bonding for life, I don't know -

it doesn't seem neccessary - there are exercises and medications and surgeries

to help with that ;-) -

For instance my therapist used to be a man and now she is a BIG woman with a

huge tattoo of Buddha and somebody -

a monkey - ah gee - I'll write later someday maybe to tell you who - but you get

the gist - she's SO well educated, and all she needed were a few adjustments to

be happy and tantric mating doesn't appear to be one of them! Some people go for

a long long way for their spiritual life though, I must admit...

thankyou,

valerie

[Guest guest]

Shawn:

 

I can't tell if you are making fun of me. Are you scoffing if so

make it clear because I can't see your face.

 

Bobby G.

 

 

, shawn <shawn@w...> wrote:

>

> Everytime I sat for meditation, I found I was becoming

enlightened!....so I

> gave it up.

>

> Shawn

>

>

>

>

> on 8/1/02 11:33 AM, texasbg2000 at Bigbobgraham@a... wrote:

>

> > Patanjali: Feuerstein

> > I. 31 Pain, depression, tremor of the limbs, [wrong] inhalation

and

> > exhalation are accompanying [symptoms] of the distractions.

> >

> > I. 32 In order to counteract these [distractions] [the yogin

should

> > resort to ] the practice [of concentration] on a single principle.

> >

> > I.33 The projection of friendliness, compassion gladness and

> > equanimity towards objects-[be they] joyful, sorrowful,

meritorious

> > or demeritorious--[bring about] the pacification of consciousness.

> >

> > and then:

> >

> > III. 23--Through constraint on friendliness et cetera, he acquires

> > powers.

> >

> > It seems to me that Patanjali writes that friendliness is the

> > cureall. He listed the nine distractions {before the quote} and

then

> > the cure. Friendliness. Then later he mentions friendliness

again.

> > He says that constraint {focus} of friendliness gives one power.

He

> > later says that if one does not use this power it becomes like the

> > elephant (infinite).

> >

> > Jesus used the word love in the same way. It is up to people to

> > figure out what he and Patanjali meant. They obviously knew

already

> > and said these things which have been preserved for our benefit.

> >

> > What we project should be noted if we are sincere. Any problem is

> > overcome by projecting friendliness toward objects, ideas, and

> > ourselves.

> >

> > Love

> > Bobby G.

> >

> >

> > , v <amused@p...> wrote:

> >> I must confess that although I savvy *namaste* - it is on a

> > completely

> >> different level. And these rednecks round here are all looking

for a

> >> "significant other", which doesn't work for me either. But I

don't

> >> understand this "burning love for everybody" - burning love -

same

> >> flame, etc. and it's making me cry because I really feel like I'm

> >> missing something out, either that or everyone is being

deliberately

> >> cruel, which I doubt. How can someone be mated and still have

> > burning

> >> love for all the other men and women? What kind of love is that?

Is

> > it

> >> agape the kind of love withheld for God, or is it real love for

the

> >> person as a person? I mean - noone knows me and as such no one

> > loves me

> >> and so I assume it is a love where the loved one is known by the

> > lover

> >> and returned by samesaid lover - so - what kind of love is that?

> > Are we

> >> talkin "romantic love" here? Or is it an especially

hot "brotherly

> > love"

> >> which I am missing out on?

> >> Is it a level one reaches after so many years of prayer and

> > meditation?

> >> Either way - it feels to me as if someone has gutted me with a

fish

> >> knife and my insides are spilling out, and the pain of the non-

stop

> >> tears, so I guess I don't get it.

> >> Have a pleasant evening.

> >> valerie

> >

> >

> > Sponsor

> >

> > /join

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places,

sights,

> > perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in

and subside

> > back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not

different than the

> > ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of

Awareness.

> > Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home.

Home is

> > where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of

Eternal Being.

> > A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge,

spontaneously arising

> > from within into It Self. Welcome all to a.

> >

> >

> >

> > Terms of

Service

> > <> .

[Guest guest]

Sorry bobby, no.

I should have put a wink in there, eh? No, no not making fun not at all

simply saying something about "becoming."

Everybody has their own way, yes?

Just be careful of all the effort,hummm, lots of effort usually begetts

attatchment to the path and rules prescribed by others are usually the

result of awakening. Being friendly as a stategy sounds a bit untrue....

 

If a person is just themself, it all comes out in the wash. Can you be in

the moment without being "Bobby?"

 

love you friend (sincere)

 

Shawn

 

 

on 8/1/02 5:14 PM, texasbg2000 at Bigbobgraham wrote:

> Shawn:

>

> I can't tell if you are making fun of me. Are you scoffing if so

> make it clear because I can't see your face.

>

> Bobby G.

>

>

> , shawn <shawn@w...> wrote:

>>

>> Everytime I sat for meditation, I found I was becoming

> enlightened!....so I

>> gave it up.

>>

>> Shawn

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> on 8/1/02 11:33 AM, texasbg2000 at Bigbobgraham@a... wrote:

>>

>>> Patanjali: Feuerstein

>>> I. 31 Pain, depression, tremor of the limbs, [wrong] inhalation

> and

>>> exhalation are accompanying [symptoms] of the distractions.

>>>

>>> I. 32 In order to counteract these [distractions] [the yogin

> should

>>> resort to ] the practice [of concentration] on a single principle.

>>>

>>> I.33 The projection of friendliness, compassion gladness and

>>> equanimity towards objects-[be they] joyful, sorrowful,

> meritorious

>>> or demeritorious--[bring about] the pacification of consciousness.

>>>

>>> and then:

>>>

>>> III. 23--Through constraint on friendliness et cetera, he acquires

>>> powers.

>>>

>>> It seems to me that Patanjali writes that friendliness is the

>>> cureall. He listed the nine distractions {before the quote} and

> then

>>> the cure. Friendliness. Then later he mentions friendliness

> again.

>>> He says that constraint {focus} of friendliness gives one power.

> He

>>> later says that if one does not use this power it becomes like the

>>> elephant (infinite).

>>>

>>> Jesus used the word love in the same way. It is up to people to

>>> figure out what he and Patanjali meant. They obviously knew

> already

>>> and said these things which have been preserved for our benefit.

>>>

>>> What we project should be noted if we are sincere. Any problem is

>>> overcome by projecting friendliness toward objects, ideas, and

>>> ourselves.

>>>

>>> Love

>>> Bobby G.

>>>

>>>

>>> , v <amused@p...> wrote:

>>>> I must confess that although I savvy *namaste* - it is on a

>>> completely

>>>> different level. And these rednecks round here are all looking

> for a

>>>> "significant other", which doesn't work for me either. But I

> don't

>>>> understand this "burning love for everybody" - burning love -

> same

>>>> flame, etc. and it's making me cry because I really feel like I'm

>>>> missing something out, either that or everyone is being

> deliberately

>>>> cruel, which I doubt. How can someone be mated and still have

>>> burning

>>>> love for all the other men and women? What kind of love is that?

> Is

>>> it

>>>> agape the kind of love withheld for God, or is it real love for

> the

>>>> person as a person? I mean - noone knows me and as such no one

>>> loves me

>>>> and so I assume it is a love where the loved one is known by the

>>> lover

>>>> and returned by samesaid lover - so - what kind of love is that?

>>> Are we

>>>> talkin "romantic love" here? Or is it an especially

> hot "brotherly

>>> love"

>>>> which I am missing out on?

>>>> Is it a level one reaches after so many years of prayer and

>>> meditation?

>>>> Either way - it feels to me as if someone has gutted me with a

> fish

>>>> knife and my insides are spilling out, and the pain of the non-

> stop

>>>> tears, so I guess I don't get it.

>>>> Have a pleasant evening.

>>>> valerie

>>>

>>>

>>> Sponsor

>>>

>>> /join

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places,

> sights,

>>> perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in

> and subside

>>> back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not

> different than the

>>> ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of

> Awareness.

>>> Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home.

> Home is

>>> where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of

> Eternal Being.

>>> A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge,

> spontaneously arising

>>> from within into It Self. Welcome all to a.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Terms of

> Service

>>> <> .

>

>

> Sponsor

>

> /join

>

>

>

>

>

> All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights,

> perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside

> back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the

> ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness.

> Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is

> where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being.

> A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising

> from within into It Self. Welcome all to a.

>

>

>

> Terms of Service

> <> .

[Guest guest]

On 8/2/02 at 3:14 AM texasbg2000 wrote:

 

ºShawn:

º

ºI can't tell if you are making fun of me. Are you scoffing if so

ºmake it clear because I can't see your face.

º

ºBobby G.

 

Dear Bobby,

 

The 'mileage' of various translators may differ...

A small collection from Purohit swami:

(II, 33) If wrong sentiments disturb, cultivate right thoughts.

(I, 33) Mind attains peace by associating with the happy, pitying the miserable,

appreciating the virtuous, and avoiding the vicious.

(I,21) Success is immediate where effort is intense.

(I,22) Success varies according to whether the effort is mild, moderate or

intense.

 

Peace,

Jan

[Guest guest]

>

> Dear Bobby,

>

> The 'mileage' of various translators may differ...

> A small collection from Purohit swami:

> (II, 33) If wrong sentiments disturb, cultivate right thoughts.

> (I, 33) Mind attains peace by associating with the happy, pitying

the miserable,

> appreciating the virtuous, and avoiding the vicious.

> (I,21) Success is immediate where effort is intense.

> (I,22) Success varies according to whether the effort is mild,

moderate or intense.

>

> Peace,

> Jan

 

Dear Jan:

 

BKS Iyengar: I.33,-Through cultivation of friendliness, compassion,

joy, and indifference to pleasure and pain, virtue and vice

respectively, the consciousness becomes favouraby disposed, serene

and benevolent.

 

Commentary: These qualities keep the mind in a state of well-being.

Patanjali here lays the groundwork for our journey towards Self-

Realization. Citta Viksepa is a current of disturbed thoughts

running like a river. In citta prasadana, graceful diffusion, the

turbulent flow is dammed up and consciousness diffuses calmly like a

lake.

 

Iyengar is a modern day devotee of Patanjali and considers him his

guru.

 

He, I believe is still in the body.

 

Effort is the partner I brought to the dance. I have no reason to

start doubting her beauty now.

 

Love

Bobby G.

[Guest guest]

Hi Shawn:

 

Thanks for your reply. 'Becoming' is a good topic. I know many

people, many living modern day teachers speak about it. If becoming

enlightened as a frame of mind were the only obstacle to be overcome

then giving up meditation might be the right course. I see the

vasannas, the deep seated tendencies as a dominating feature in one's

life, remaining even if the 'becoming' issue is resolved. Meditation

is helpful with overcoming them.

 

I was intent on becoming perfect when I was young. I read the texts

and interpreted the procedures as something that would lead me to

perfection. A teacher advising a student in that frame of mind to

inspect the 'becoming' would be helpful.

 

Now, I think of the topic of becoming as a problem in

directionality. By that I mean that as a beginner, I (Bobby) look(s)

toward the Self (perfection). Later the direction changes and the

Self is found to be looking at Bobby. People in the beginning look

outward for peace and later learn to look inward. This happens in

real time today. By daily habit I look outward at the concept of

Self. Upon realizing 'the moment' that stops. It stops not because I

do it, but automatically.

 

Bobby can not be in the moment. He disappears. He is found to be an

illusion just as the rope that appeared to be a snake. There is

no 'becoming' because "I" cannot become enlightened.

 

The topic of love and its meaning was why I brought up the word

friendliness.

 

Attachment to a path or attachment to no path makes no difference.

Detachment, dispassion, vairagya is where effort is placed. A

concerted lack of effort is impossible.

 

Love

Bobby G.

 

ps-I do appreciate your efforts on my behalf. Thanks -bg

 

 

Sorry bobby, no.

> I should have put a wink in there, eh? No, no not making fun not at

all

> simply saying something about "becoming."

> Everybody has their own way, yes?

> Just be careful of all the effort,hummm, lots of effort usually

begetts

> attatchment to the path and rules prescribed by others are usually

the

> result of awakening. Being friendly as a stategy sounds a bit

untrue....

>

> If a person is just themself, it all comes out in the wash. Can you

be in

> the moment without being "Bobby?"

>

> love you friend (sincere)

>

> Shawn

>

>

> on 8/1/02 5:14 PM, texasbg2000 at Bigbobgraham@a... wrote:

>

> > Shawn:

> >

> > I can't tell if you are making fun of me. Are you scoffing if so

> > make it clear because I can't see your face.

> >

> > Bobby G.

> >

> >

> > , shawn <shawn@w...> wrote:

> >>

> >> Everytime I sat for meditation, I found I was becoming

> > enlightened!....so I

> >> gave it up.

> >>

> >> Shawn

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> on 8/1/02 11:33 AM, texasbg2000 at Bigbobgraham@a... wrote:

> >>

> >>> Patanjali: Feuerstein

> >>> I. 31 Pain, depression, tremor of the limbs, [wrong] inhalation

> > and

> >>> exhalation are accompanying [symptoms] of the distractions.

> >>>

> >>> I. 32 In order to counteract these [distractions] [the yogin

> > should

> >>> resort to ] the practice [of concentration] on a single

principle.

> >>>

> >>> I.33 The projection of friendliness, compassion gladness and

> >>> equanimity towards objects-[be they] joyful, sorrowful,

> > meritorious

> >>> or demeritorious--[bring about] the pacification of

consciousness.

> >>>

> >>> and then:

> >>>

> >>> III. 23--Through constraint on friendliness et cetera, he

acquires

> >>> powers.

> >>>

> >>> It seems to me that Patanjali writes that friendliness is the

> >>> cureall. He listed the nine distractions {before the quote} and

> > then

> >>> the cure. Friendliness. Then later he mentions friendliness

> > again.

> >>> He says that constraint {focus} of friendliness gives one power.

> > He

> >>> later says that if one does not use this power it becomes like

the

> >>> elephant (infinite).

> >>>

> >>> Jesus used the word love in the same way. It is up to people to

> >>> figure out what he and Patanjali meant. They obviously knew

> > already

> >>> and said these things which have been preserved for our benefit.

> >>>

> >>> What we project should be noted if we are sincere. Any problem

is

> >>> overcome by projecting friendliness toward objects, ideas, and

> >>> ourselves.

> >>>

> >>> Love

> >>> Bobby G.

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> , v <amused@p...> wrote:

> >>>> I must confess that although I savvy *namaste* - it is on a

> >>> completely

> >>>> different level. And these rednecks round here are all looking

> > for a

> >>>> "significant other", which doesn't work for me either. But I

> > don't

> >>>> understand this "burning love for everybody" - burning love -

> > same

> >>>> flame, etc. and it's making me cry because I really feel like

I'm

> >>>> missing something out, either that or everyone is being

> > deliberately

> >>>> cruel, which I doubt. How can someone be mated and still have

> >>> burning

> >>>> love for all the other men and women? What kind of love is

that?

> > Is

> >>> it

> >>>> agape the kind of love withheld for God, or is it real love for

> > the

> >>>> person as a person? I mean - noone knows me and as such no one

> >>> loves me

> >>>> and so I assume it is a love where the loved one is known by

the

> >>> lover

> >>>> and returned by samesaid lover - so - what kind of love is

that?

> >>> Are we

> >>>> talkin "romantic love" here? Or is it an especially

> > hot "brotherly

> >>> love"

> >>>> which I am missing out on?

> >>>> Is it a level one reaches after so many years of prayer and

> >>> meditation?

> >>>> Either way - it feels to me as if someone has gutted me with a

> > fish

> >>>> knife and my insides are spilling out, and the pain of the non-

> > stop

> >>>> tears, so I guess I don't get it.

> >>>> Have a pleasant evening.

> >>>> valerie

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> Sponsor

> >>>

> >>> /join

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places,

> > sights,

> >>> perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in

> > and subside

> >>> back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not

> > different than the

> >>> ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of

> > Awareness.

> >>> Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is

Home.

> > Home is

> >>> where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of

> > Eternal Being.

> >>> A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge,

> > spontaneously arising

> >>> from within into It Self. Welcome all to a.

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> Terms of

> > Service

> >>> <> .

> >

> >

> > Sponsor

> >

> > /join

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places,

sights,

> > perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in

and subside

> > back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not

different than the

> > ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of

Awareness.

> > Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home.

Home is

> > where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of

Eternal Being.

> > A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge,

spontaneously arising

> > from within into It Self. Welcome all to a.

> >

> >

> >

> > Terms of

Service

> > <> .

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Bob.

 

That would be fun.

 

For the "someday" file.

 

I'm a psychologist.

 

Hi Christiana!

 

-- Dan

 

>

>

> ))) Ah Dear Brother!

>

> i have been meaning to ask you what line of work you are in

> (psychologist?). we recently had the pleasure of meeting the lovely

> Christiana D., btw, who reported fondly that you were quite a dear

> fellow (but we knew that already). we really enjoy meeting others

> from these lists, and if you ever have a convention in the S.F. Bay

> area, let us know in advance -- last night my tofu tabouli

> transcended any discourse, but we also know where to get good

garlic

> crabs!

>

> LoveAlways,

>

> b

[Guest guest]

, "ecirada" <janb@a...> wrote:

> On 8/1/02 at 8:46 PM dan330033 wrote:

>

> º> snip

> º> Perhaps One with no other is only a "phase."

> º

> ºA phase only has meaning if there is a previous

> º phase and a subsequent phase.

>

> Two phases do for oscillation, like solid/fluid, depressed/ecstatic.

 

Hmmm, yes, could be "one without an other," and "one with an other"

as an osscilation. An interesting way to take it.

 

Still, there would have to be an other, for such an

oscillation to occur.

> ºThus, one phase leads to another, endlessly.

>

> Not if the condition for it gets removed.

> And the phase of life called "last breath" leads to nowhere :-)

 

It would be more authoritative for

one who has permanently stopped breathing

to speak of what the last breath has led to ... :-)

> ºThe sense of "progression" depends completely

> º on the one believed to be moving from

> º one phase into another.

>

> Oh? That contradicts the perception, once the potential for fear

gone,

> the issue no longer is.

 

What is the contradiction?

>That isn't a matter of progress, it just feels better :-)

 

Release of fear feels better than maintaining

fear.

> ºThis one who moves through phases, can never

> º be one with no other; for that one,

> º the phase being moved into, and from,

> º always constitutes an "other" ...

>

> The assumption is there is movement whereas there isn't.

 

Yes.

 

Movement requires a perception of change,

which requires a continuing observer apart from

that which is being perceived as changing,

such as "scenery,states of consciousness," or "time"

> Not all mind-bodies remain fettered by feelings like fear,

> guilt, shame, embarrassment and the like. What about calling

> those feelings and the behavior caused by it, self-deception

> (whether "enlightened" or not) instead of a phase?

 

Self-deception being the activity of trying to stand outside

of oneself.

> Feel better already? :-)

 

Instant relief through cyberspace posts :-)

[Guest guest]

, shawn <shawn@w...> wrote:

> on 8/1/02 10:46 AM, dan330033 at dan330033 wrote:

>

> >> snip

> >> Perhaps One with no other is only a "phase."

> >

> > A phase only has meaning if there is a previous

> > phase and a subsequent phase.

> >

> > Thus, one phase leads to another, endlessly.

> >

> > The sense of "progression" depends completely

> > on the one believed to be moving from

> > one phase into another.

> >

> > This one who moves through phases, can never

> > be one with no other; for that one,

> > the phase being moved into, and from,

> > always constitutes an "other" ...

> >

> > -- Dan

> .......unless not.

 

Unless not moving from or to.

[Guest guest]

> Okay, okay, I confess,(waving hand in front of nose)

>

> ...I cut one.

>

> grinding the wheels Danman?

>

> Love,Shawn

 

I love you, too, Shawn.

 

Just noticing that opposing forces

aren't necessarily there

until so construed ...

 

No grinding necessary ...

 

:-)

 

-- Sandman Dan

[Guest guest]

> > , v <amused@p...> wrote:

 

>

> I realize there is a lot of trouble in the world with "love" today,

and

> I realize I was brutally beaten and abused as a child, so it makes

me

> cry when I don't understand because I think it's my err. I just

have to

> ask, that's all.

 

Geez Val, that has to be the toughest thing anyone has to live

through and let go of. I can't imagine. As an adult victim of

domestic violence, I thought it was my error too for a long time,

especially when starting the spiritual path and thinking we were

responsible for everything. We were both victims, and especially you

being a child. I'm not sure if it is anything we can ever

understand, except that it was not our fault. Ignorance (spiritual

or otherwise) on the adults part is no excuse for beating a child, or

beating anyone for that matter.

 

It has helped me immensely to become involved with helping other

victims of DV. There are DV shelters in every city that can always

use volunteers, counselors, advocates, not to mention donations!

 

I don't know if this is something you might be interested in, but

thought I'd pass the thought on, as the understanding of my own abuse

has grown so much since I've been involved with this particular

area. And the best thing is watching these women and children come

to the shelter completely broken down and beaten, and just by

listening, talking, sharing, crying and laughing with them, within a

couple of days, they grow brighter and brighter, with a strength they

never had, including my own. It is truly a miracle to watch. And

those group and individual hugs *feel* real.

>

> > Honor that what you are feeling (no *burning* love for everyone)

is

> > what you, or someone else, may have defined love to be as " _

(fill in

> > the blanks_") and that you've taken it to heart. You Valerie,

are

> > just pure Love itself -- I feel it in every post of yours. Keep

> > being yourself, as it is quite beautiful for all of us. That is

all

> > you need do.

>

> thankyou - I don't know! (perplexed smiley)

 

Hey... great place to be! That I dunno place. :-)

>

> > You are Love, just as we all are. And we can extend this love to

> > manifest it by accepting others exactly where they are. By doing

> > this, we accept where we are. Here. Now. Others may get

offended

> > by this because they want you to go where they are... to a place

of

> > nonacceptance of where you are. But that is perfectly okay too,

as

> > this is where they are!

>

> the above paragraph is SO COOL!!! I think I'd like to quote it

sometime - it is so applicable!

 

 

Feel free to quote it! LOL It's a mouthful.

> > There is no right or wrong place. We are all here now.

>

> yes - but I'm over here now!

 

Yikes! And what a great place to be! Over/under, we are still here

now. We can't be otherthanwise. You make me laugh... I think that's

why I've always enjoyed your posts. Thanks for making me laugh and

cry and smile and feel good all these years.

> > If you became all burning love for everyone, I'd have to gut

myself

> > with a fish knife. :-)

>

> lolololol!!

 

After watching this particular subject post, it is now my

understanding that the burning love b is speaking about, is the deep

appreciation and love we have for nature and the *ordinary* things

that occur in our lives. (?) (I could be wrong - please correct me,

b, if I am in err).

 

Hey, and we have this as much as b, wim, or anyone! Thinking has

nothing to do with it. I've seen you get all misty-eyed over

watching the whales, and I know you are like that with many

miraculous ordinary things in your life. It's the same with me, and

I'm sure 99.999% of the people here on this list. Geez, a flower can

take my breath away. A tiny gesture on another's part brings me to

tears. We are all here! LOL

 

Cya,

Love & Ordinary Miraculous Kisses,

xxxtg

[Guest guest]

on 8/2/02 9:13 AM, dan330033 at dan330033 wrote:

> , shawn <shawn@w...> wrote:

>> on 8/1/02 10:46 AM, dan330033 at dan330033 wrote:

>>

>>>> snip

>>>> Perhaps One with no other is only a "phase."

>>>

>>> A phase only has meaning if there is a previous

>>> phase and a subsequent phase.

>>>

>>> Thus, one phase leads to another, endlessly.

>>>

>>> The sense of "progression" depends completely

>>> on the one believed to be moving from

>>> one phase into another.

>>>

>>> This one who moves through phases, can never

>>> be one with no other; for that one,

>>> the phase being moved into, and from,

>>> always constitutes an "other" ...

>>>

>>> -- Dan

>> .......unless not.

>

> Unless not moving from or to.

===========

 

Unless you move without moving.

 

Shawn

[Guest guest]

on 8/2/02 9:19 AM, dan330033 at dan330033 wrote:

>> Okay, okay, I confess,(waving hand in front of nose)

>>

>> ...I cut one.

>>

>> grinding the wheels Danman?

>>

>> Love,Shawn

>

> I love you, too, Shawn.

>

> Just noticing that opposing forces

> aren't necessarily there

> until so construed ...

 

....and sometimes it is seen as complmentary and not opposing?

> No grinding necessary ...

>

> :-)

 

Probably my own wheels again,humm?

 

> -- Sandman Dan

 

 

Sandman, where were you last night?

....up the dreaming river?

Shawn

[Guest guest]

, "teegee555" <Teegee555@a...> wrote:

>After watching this particular subject post, it is now my

understanding that the burning love b is speaking about, is the deep

appreciation and love we have for nature and the *ordinary* things

that occur in our lives. (?)

 

 

 

)))) Artichoke Blossom and Bumblebee

 

 

Bee: "Such Bliss! God, I must have This!

This Nectar, This Sweetness Sublime!

It is why I am here, as bee-ness, being the

Buzzing, humming in rapturous insect-song,

Reveling in this Rhapsody of Flower-ness, this

Irresistibility of my Heart's Desire, my Yearning for

Only This, Bliss of Being, Bee-ing, and Oh – This

Flower of my Love Embraces me, Yes, and I am

A passion of intoxicated Joy, an undeniable wanting of

This Union, to Drown in This, to even Disappear in only

This, so Sweet, so Rich, and I have to possess This, for This

Is what Possesses me, draws me out of myself and into what is

Most Attractive, most Consuming, and all I see is This, and

All I taste is This, and I am become This – Yes – in the

Consummation I have become This Flower, It's

Essence flowing into me, my Essence One with Flowering

Love that lights Its Way through every nerve, every fiber of my

Buzzing Ecstasy, and Yes I shall simply die out into This, for

This at last is nothing but what I am, when I am given unto This!"

 

Flower: "Come to me, My Love! My Dearest BeeHeart, my Lover I

Have grown myself for, blossomed myself into This Beauty for,

Embracing Only You, my Delight, Only You, my bold Insistence

Spreading me open to receive Your Hungry Desire, the Desire

I have awakened in You, that ancient Impulse Alive now as this

Wanting – yes, Taste me, Take me, let my Petals wrap You in the

Bliss of Myself, Ourself wound into this Wanting, this Wonder of our

Trembling Giving, Birth of Joy, Birth of billions of Beings, Bees,

Butterflies, Blue Buds Birthing Artichokes of Purple Mirth and in

This fraction of our Mating, in the Dance of our Desire

Lived are We, Loved are We, never less than, never more than, never

Other than Life Itself, Love Itself, Beloved, and Yes I am Yours, my

Darling, Yes!"

 

 

Commentary:

The Song of Love is Heard only by Love. It is the Loving Rhythm of

Love for and by Itself. Along with the little-known practice of

actually Loving, and Inquiry into the True Nature of the Lover, such

Hearing is more potent than any other so-called spiritual discipline,

until all such disciplines are recognized as only the Play of Love.

The Blessing Sound that Love bestows makes one who is ready

immediately open and empty to receive, devoid of any resistance.

Love's Real Nature is the OneHeart Itself. Only.

 

The ordinary person dreams in the brain, unaware of their True Home

in the Heart. The Lover lives in the Heart. The Lover is Lived by the

Heart, Awakening to a constant Whisper of the Heart to Itself. For

the Lover, the True Devotee of Love, there is nothing but the Joyful

movement of the Formless Heart into all forms and relationships as

Song itself! The Lover has no will. No Choice. All such fantasies

have been consumed by the lovely Fire of Love. In the realm some

call "this world", the Lover knows that what they hear is not

separate from the OneHeart in Which all arises and dissolves, Which

they realize in the Heart as their own Self, Singing!

Love hears nothing as greater or lesser, higher or lower, better or

worse, more or less desirable. All is only Love to such ears. In the

state of Love the Lover hears nothing separate from the Beloved's

Voice – Radiance Divine rippling in every direction for the sheer

Magnification of Itself in Mysterious Symphonic Wonder.

For the Lover, Love alone IS, and nothing else.

By persisting in Communion with Love, the Lover sheds all recoil from

Love, until such dry tunes drop away completely, revealing That Which

Is. In such Humility, Love, Which Is Truth, becomes the Sacrifice

Which returns as the Singing Smile, illuminating all that does not

Recognize Itself as Love. Exquisitely, Beloved presses so urgently

down into mortality as a Musical Love Offering to that which lingers

in the forgetfulness of its own True Nature. How Happy is the Lover

to fall into this slipstream of Loving's Bright Song, that all may

enjoy the Delight of Love's Homecoming to Itself, the Self of All,

the Treasure of the Living Light of Heart-broken Surrender to the

deepest Yearning of Being Itself! Jai to the Inextinguishable, this

Ever-living Flame, this HeartSong!

 

 

 

 

LoveAlways,

 

b

[Guest guest]

On 8/2/02 at 2:35 PM texasbg2000 wrote:

 

[...]

º

ºEffort is the partner I brought to the dance. I have no reason to

ºstart doubting her beauty now.

º

ºLove

ºBobby G.

 

The effort-issue i know well: without effort, childhood conditioning isn't

accepted

and the acceptation makes it a part of "you" to such an extent that you will

defend it...

This has been shown clearly in kidnapping by militants too, where those

kidnapped,

started to "understand" the cause of the kidnappers, started to sympathize with

them.

As the acceptation of conditioning costs energy, after it has grown roots, its

dissolution

will cause more energy... And the above goes for the multitude of imprinted

ideas, opinions,

automatic interpretation mechanisms, the 'software'. Its deletion results in

perceiving

with full awareness (Self-realization, enlightenment). It won't be a surprise

that the

potential for this conditioning is the self-preservation instinct, the will to

live and enjoy...

The biological conditioning, 'hardware with operating software' requires far

more

energy to form (unnoticed though) and hence, to burn out (noticed in all

detail)...

 

"When mind is immovable, Self is like the sun when the clouds are gone, like the

bottom

of the lake when there are no ripples"

 

Peace,

Jan

[Guest guest]

Hi Jan:

 

Thanks for these remarks. Being given the opportunity to use energy

to unseat these perpetual liabilities that I find myself with is a

great boon. I am grateful to know what needs to be done.

 

I went for many years plugging away without much reassurance of

progress but was finally given help in the form of Sri Ramana

Maharshi.

 

Love

Bobby G.

 

, "ecirada" <janb@a...> wrote:

> On 8/2/02 at 2:35 PM texasbg2000 wrote:

>

> [...]

> º

> ºEffort is the partner I brought to the dance. I have no reason to

> ºstart doubting her beauty now.

> º

> ºLove

> ºBobby G.

>

> The effort-issue i know well: without effort, childhood

conditioning isn't accepted

> and the acceptation makes it a part of "you" to such an extent that

you will defend it...

> This has been shown clearly in kidnapping by militants too, where

those kidnapped,

> started to "understand" the cause of the kidnappers, started to

sympathize with them.

> As the acceptation of conditioning costs energy, after it has grown

roots, its dissolution

> will cause more energy... And the above goes for the multitude of

imprinted ideas, opinions,

> automatic interpretation mechanisms, the 'software'. Its deletion

results in perceiving

> with full awareness (Self-realization, enlightenment). It won't be

a surprise that the

> potential for this conditioning is the self-preservation instinct,

the will to live and enjoy...

> The biological conditioning, 'hardware with operating software'

requires far more

> energy to form (unnoticed though) and hence, to burn out (noticed

in all detail)...

>

> "When mind is immovable, Self is like the sun when the clouds are

gone, like the bottom

> of the lake when there are no ripples"

>

> Peace,

> Jan

[Guest guest]

, "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:

>I went for many years plugging away without much reassurance of

progress but was finally given help in the form of Sri Ramana

Maharshi.

 

 

))))) Jai Gurudeva!

 

 

Ramana Maharshi, Paramahansa!

 

Ramana Maharshi, Paramahansa!

 

Ramana Maharshi, Paramahansa!

 

Om Guru Om! Om Guru Om!

 

Om Guru Om!

 

Bobby G!

 

Paramanhansa!

 

Jan!

 

Paramahansa!

 

Shawn!

 

Paramahansa!

 

Dan!

 

Paramahansa!

 

V Amused!

 

Paramahansa!

 

TeeGee!

 

Paramahansa!

 

WonderWim!

 

Paramahansa!

 

HarshaSan!

 

Paramahansa!

 

Viorica!

 

Paramahansa!

 

Heard and Unheard,

Seen and Unseen,

Children of the Marriage of

Jnani and Bhakti,

Beloved Heart,

Ramana Maharshi, Parasmahansa!

 

 

LoveAlways,

 

Mazie & b!

 

Paramahansa!

[Guest guest]

Paramahamsa...

 

Did I hear a flock of swans fly over?

Or were those winged beings our angelic realities?

 

Wim

 

----------------

>>>

Ramana Maharshi, Paramahansa!

 

Ramana Maharshi, Paramahansa!

 

Ramana Maharshi, Paramahansa!

 

Om Guru Om! Om Guru Om!

 

Om Guru Om!

 

Bobby G!

 

Paramanhansa!

 

Jan!

 

Paramahansa!

 

Shawn!

 

Paramahansa!

 

Dan!

 

Paramahansa!

 

V Amused!

 

Paramahansa!

 

TeeGee!

 

Paramahansa!

 

WonderWim!

 

Paramahansa!

 

HarshaSan!

 

Paramahansa!

 

Viorica!

 

Paramahansa!

 

Heard and Unheard,

Seen and Unseen,

Children of the Marriage of

Jnani and Bhakti,

Beloved Heart,

Ramana Maharshi, Parasmahansa!

 

 

LoveAlways,

 

Mazie & b!

 

Paramahansa!

 

 

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