Guest guest Posted August 14, 2002 Report Share Posted August 14, 2002 thanks for this. Sandeep has a good point. I was right with this post until the end though. <Till the moment, when ALL yearnings have ceased. ALL. And then the Supreme State does not arrive uninvited, unexpected. There is no "one" left to notice it's absence or it's presence.>>>> There is always something left. If you are an incarnate being with bodily needs, there is always something left. What is left is a persona that is free of the desire bodies, but not free of its identity within the Whole. Because the identity no longer identifies its truth to the persona, does not mean it returns to absence. It lives with that absence as a uniqueness. Maybe I am saying the same thing as Sandeep, only from a more mundane perspective, but I think it is a distinction worth pointing out. love eric Tun TunaTun, Tun, TunaTun Tun LoveAlways, Mazie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2002 Report Share Posted August 14, 2002 "Sandeep Chatterjee" <sandeepc@b...> wrote: Hiya Manuel reports on Gems from Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj's Conversations "When you demand nothing of the world, nor of God, when you want nothing, seek nothing, expect nothing, then the Supreme State will come to you uninvited and unexpected!" However if you stop demanding anything from the world, or from God, if you stop wanting anything, stop seeking, stop expecting anything, IN the hope that the Supreme State will arrive, you know, like one eye clocked open, checking out, whether it is happening etc, etc, you are still demanding, you are still wanting, you are still seeking, you are still expecting. Basically, "you" cannot, help demanding, whether from the world or from your conceived God. "You" cannot help seeking, whether it is for your mother's nipple, when you were an infant, or as you grew up, seeking a self-fulfilling relationship, dollar bills, peace of mind, or enlightenment or whatever aflames your bushel. "You" cannot help expecting. For the instinct of demanding, of seeking, of expecting, is exactly what the "you" or the "me" is. That is the very entitification. Hoping, expecting, seeking ways and means and thus the relevant Gurus, for the "me" not to follow it's nature, is itself an oxy-moron and is just not possible. Or that is as much possible as you lifting your self by your boot- straps. Or motivating a daschund puppy to undertake Wayne Dyer's (or X, Y, Z) 12 Step Change your Personality, course and become a Great Dane. The "me-entity" is just that. The instinct to seek to demand, to want, to expect. And thus Nisargadatta's "demanding nothing, seeking nothing, expecting nothing" can only be equated to the notional erasure of the "me-entity". For a "me" cannot achieve the state of "demanding nothing, seeking nothing, expecting nothing". Why not? A "me" in moving from a "demanding, seeking, expecting" state to the state of "demanding nothing, seeking nothing, expecting nothing", will need to SEEK THIS very movement, this very becoming. And thus subtle, round and round the mulberry bush. The ending of the rounding around a mulbbery bush cannot be brought about. It can only happen, non-volitionally, acausally. So till it happens, play on, yearn on, whether it is for profound stuff or profane stuff. Totally and completely. To full completion. With no guilt whatsoever. Or, if guilt is your game, play that game too, to the hilt. Till the moment, when ALL yearnings have ceased. ALL. And then the Supreme State does not arrive uninvited, unexpected. There is no "one" left to notice it's absence or it's presence. Tun TunaTun, Tun, TunaTun Tun LoveAlways, Mazie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2002 Report Share Posted August 14, 2002 Dearest Wim, My answer is no. Yet my answer to everything is always Yes. So Yes to your answer! What I would try to say within my foolish self is - There is always something of You, and it is a totally unique expression of God. If you try to be absent to that, you are lost to the Self. The old teachings were a prescription for too much, the new teachings are a prescription for too little. Where shall the truth meet? It is only in our love for each other. Something's are obvious, and only fools mistake them. There is only God happening in us. All other talk is just talk. To say you will be absent from what is the expression of the Self is just talk. Test this in your life. test this on any touch stone you can test it upon....... Inquire into the nature of being and ask yourself----- Do you exist? The answer is always Yes. You are You!!!! Not the you that you may believe you are but the You of God. Totally unique. love eric Dear Eric and Mazie... Mazie wrote: >>> And then the Supreme State does not arrive uninvited, unexpected. There is no "one" left to notice it's absence or it's presence. <<< Eric wrote: >>> ...If you are an incarnate being with bodily needs, there is always something left. What is left is a persona that is free of the desire bodies, but not free of its identity within the Whole. Because the identity no longer identifies its truth to the persona, does not mean it returns to absence. It lives with that absence as a uniqueness. <<< At some point, we are also free of the persona (per-sona), we have then recovered our divine / human beingness again... We do not lose uniqueness though, we don't have to. Our uniqueness expresses our Oneness uniquely... (remember the hologram?) Could it just be that the last one to leave our integrated being is "the persona"? Thus, "There is no "one" left to notice it's absence or it's presence." Wim --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release 8/2/2002 ------------------------ Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click./pt6YBB/NXiEAA/RN.GAA/bpSolB/TM ---~-> /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2002 Report Share Posted August 14, 2002 there are levels of awareness. Should I judge you, or you mother on what level of consciousness you or she are on temporarily? You ask me to make about -expectations. I would simply say do away with them. Love eric Hi Eric, My mother, Altzheimer patient for years, doesn't know what the word "expectation" means anymore, doesn't have any expectations, not even simple biological ones like hunger or thirst: she has to be reminded to eat and while eating forgets it so needs help. Her state is far from enviable although showing all traits of supposed "holiness", including silence... What has been left is fear... Hence, any "state" requiring conditions like "no expectations" for its realization is conditioned by definition. There is more conditioning than expectation - what about the expectation of the organism for clean (unpolluted) air for instance? (The plantation here has been treated with methylbromide so now too i'm not theorizing) Off to camp in the mountains... Peace, Jan On 8/14/02 at 1:01 PM ErcAshfrd (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote: Dear Mazie, thanks for this. Sandeep has a good point. I was right with this post until the end though. <Till the moment, when ALL yearnings have ceased. ALL. And then the Supreme State does not arrive uninvited, unexpected. There is no "one" left to notice it's absence or it's presence.>>>> There is always something left. If you are an incarnate being with bodily needs, there is always something left. What is left is a persona that is free of the desire bodies, but not free of its identity within the Whole. Because the identity no longer identifies its truth to the persona, does not mean it returns to absence. It lives with that absence as a uniqueness. Maybe I am saying the same thing as Sandeep, only from a more mundane perspective, but I think it is a distinction worth pointing out. love eric Tun TunaTun, Tun, TunaTun Tun LoveAlways, Mazie /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spont aneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. var lrec_target="_top";var lrec_URL = new Array();lrec_URL[1]="http://rd./M=231283.2257957.3692387.2197213/D=egroupweb/S=1705060955:HM/A=1196107/R=0/id=flashurl/*http://geocities./v/p/feature.html";var lrec_flashfile="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/1-/flash/sony/xxx_geo_300x250.swf";var lrec_altURL="http://rd./M=231283.2257957.3692387.2197213/D=egroupweb/S=1705060955:HM/A=1196107/R=1/id=altimgurl/*http://geocities./v/p/feature.html";var lrec_altimg=" ";var lrec_width=300;var lrec_height=250; /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2002 Report Share Posted August 14, 2002 There is You. Who wrote this? If you say nobody you deny God. Please make yourself a clarity. love eric Do you exist? The answer is always Yes. You are You!!!! Not the you that you may believe you are but the You of God. Totally unique. ))) and, there is nobody there. LoveAlways, b ------------------------ Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now Click Here! ---~-> /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2002 Report Share Posted August 14, 2002 Smiles Dear Wim, Perusha also means the real Self I think. It is the real person. In this we all get personal. blessings eric Dear Eric I understand you well, I just wanted to throw in something about the idea "person". Obviously I understand something else under that word than you, and that is OK. It's just this, I always catch myself, when it comes to "realized beings" that I never seem to use the word "person"... It just will not come up. For argument sake I will never say of Ramana, that he was such a sweet person. You may remember that per-sona comes from the word mask, that is probably what plays in the background. Wim PS "Person" - Middle English, from Old French persone, from Latin persona actor's mask, character in a play, person, probably from Etruscan phersu mask, from Greek prosOpa, plural of prosOpon face, mask) ErcAshfrd (AT) aol (DOT) com [ErcAshfrd (AT) aol (DOT) com] Wednesday, August 14, 2002 1:10 PM Re: Re: The end of all Yearnings -- Sandeep Dearest Wim, My answer is no. Yet my answer to everything is always Yes. So Yes to your answer! What I would try to say within my foolish self is - There is always something of You, and it is a totally unique expression of God. If you try to be absent to that, you are lost to the Self. The old teachings were a prescription for too much, the new teachings are a prescription for too little. Where shall the truth meet? It is only in our love for each other. Something's are obvious, and only fools mistake them. There is only God happening in us. All other talk is just talk. To say you will be absent from what is the expression of the Self is just talk. Test this in your life. test this on any touch stone you can test it upon....... Inquire into the nature of being and ask yourself----- Do you exist? The answer is always Yes. You are You!!!! Not the you that you may believe you are but the You of God. Totally unique. love eric Dear Eric and Mazie... Mazie wrote: >>> And then the Supreme State does not arrive uninvited, unexpected. There is no "one" left to notice it's absence or it's presence. <<< Eric wrote: >>> ...If you are an incarnate being with bodily needs, there is always something left. What is left is a persona that is free of the desire bodies, but not free of its identity within the Whole. Because the identity no longer identifies its truth to the persona, does not mean it returns to absence. It lives with that absence as a uniqueness. <<< At some point, we are also free of the persona (per-sona), we have then recovered our divine / human beingness again... We do not lose uniqueness though, we don't have to. Our uniqueness expresses our Oneness uniquely... (remember the hologram?) Could it just be that the last one to leave our integrated being is "the persona"? Thus, "There is no "one" left to notice it's absence or it's presence." Wim --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release 8/2/2002 ------------------------ Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click./pt6YBB/NXiEAA/RN.GAA/bpSolB/TM ---~-> /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. Your use of is subject to /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. var lrec_target="_top";var lrec_URL = new Array();lrec_URL[1]="http://rd./M=231283.2257957.3692387.2197213/D=egroupweb/S=1705060955:HM/A=1196107/R=0/id=flashurl/*http://geocities./v/p/feature.html";var lrec_flashfile="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/1-/flash/sony/xxx_geo_300x250.swf";var lrec_altURL="http://rd./M=231283.2257957.3692387.2197213/D=egroupweb/S=1705060955:HM/A=1196107/R=1/id=altimgurl/*http://geocities./v/p/feature.html";var lrec_altimg=" ";var lrec_width=300;var lrec_height=250; /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2002 Report Share Posted August 14, 2002 , ErcAshfrd@a... wrote: > Dear Mazie, thanks for this. Sandeep has a good point. I was right with this post until the end though. <Till the moment, when ALL yearnings have ceased. ALL. And then the Supreme State does not arrive uninvited, unexpected. There is no "one" left to notice it's absence or it's presence.>>>> There is always something left. If you are an incarnate being with bodily needs, there is always something left. What is left is a persona that is free of the desire bodies, but not free of its identity within the Whole. Because the identity no longer identifies its truth to the persona, does not mean it returns to absence. It lives with that absence as a uniqueness. Maybe I am saying the same thing as Sandeep, only from a more mundane perspective, but I think it is a distinction worth pointing out. Dearest Eric, Truly, this is a verity that exists - There is no "one" left to notice its presence... How do i know this? i just know. LoveAlways, Mazie love > > eric > > > > > > > > > Tun TunaTun, Tun, TunaTun Tun > > > > > > > > LoveAlways, > > > > Mazie > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2002 Report Share Posted August 14, 2002 Dear Eric and Mazie... Mazie wrote: >>> And then the Supreme State does not arrive uninvited, unexpected. There is no "one" left to notice it's absence or it's presence. <<< Eric wrote: >>> ...If you are an incarnate being with bodily needs, there is always something left. What is left is a persona that is free of the desire bodies, but not free of its identity within the Whole. Because the identity no longer identifies its truth to the persona, does not mean it returns to absence. It lives with that absence as a uniqueness. <<< At some point, we are also free of the persona (per-sona), we have then recovered our divine / human beingness again... We do not lose uniqueness though, we don't have to. Our uniqueness expresses our Oneness uniquely... (remember the hologram?) Could it just be that the last one to leave our integrated being is "the persona"? Thus, "There is no "one" left to notice it's absence or it's presence." Wim --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release 8/2/2002 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2002 Report Share Posted August 14, 2002 Hi Eric, My mother, Altzheimer patient for years, doesn't know what the word "expectation" means anymore, doesn't have any expectations, not even simple biological ones like hunger or thirst: she has to be reminded to eat and while eating forgets it so needs help. Her state is far from enviable although showing all traits of supposed "holiness", including silence... What has been left is fear... Hence, any "state" requiring conditions like "no expectations" for its realization is conditioned by definition. There is more conditioning than expectation - what about the expectation of the organism for clean (unpolluted) air for instance? (The plantation here has been treated with methylbromide so now too i'm not theorizing) Off to camp in the mountains... Peace, Jan On 8/14/02 at 1:01 PM ErcAshfrd (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote: Dear Mazie,thanks for this. Sandeep has a good point. I was right with thispost until the end though. <Till the moment, when ALL yearnings have ceased.ALL.And then the Supreme State does not arrive uninvited, unexpected.There is no "one" left to notice it's absence or it's presence.>>>>There is always something left. If you are an incarnate being with bodilyneeds, there is always something left. What is left is a persona that is freeof the desire bodies, but not free of its identity within the Whole.Because the identity no longer identifies its truth to the persona,does not mean it returns to absence. It lives with that absence as a uniqueness.Maybe I am saying the same thing as Sandeep, only from a moremundane perspective, but I think it is a distinction worth pointing out.loveeric Tun TunaTun, Tun, TunaTun TunLoveAlways,Mazie/join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spont aneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a.Your use of is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2002 Report Share Posted August 14, 2002 , ErcAshfrd@a... wrote: Do you exist? The answer is always Yes. You are You!!!! Not the you that you may believe you are but the You of God. Totally unique. ))) and, there is nobody there. LoveAlways, b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2002 Report Share Posted August 14, 2002 , ErcAshfrd@a... wrote: >There is You. Who wrote this? If you say nobody you deny God. Please make yourself a clarity. )))) Clarity, no clarity. LoveAlways, b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2002 Report Share Posted August 14, 2002 Dear Eric I understand you well, I just wanted to throw in something about the idea "person". Obviously I understand something else under that word than you, and that is OK. It's just this, I always catch myself, when it comes to "realized beings" that I never seem to use the word "person"... It just will not come up. For argument sake I will never say of Ramana, that he was such a sweet person. You may remember that per-sona comes from the word mask, that is probably what plays in the background. Wim PS "Person" - Middle English, from Old French persone, from Latin persona actor's mask, character in a play, person, probably from Etruscan phersu mask, from Greek prosOpa, plural of prosOpon face, mask) ErcAshfrd (AT) aol (DOT) com [ErcAshfrd (AT) aol (DOT) com]Wednesday, August 14, 2002 1:10 PMTo: Subject: Re: Re: The end of all Yearnings -- SandeepDearest Wim, My answer is no. Yet my answer to everything is always Yes. So Yes to your answer!What I would try to say within my foolish self is -There is always something of You, and it is a totally unique expression of God.If you try to be absent to that, you are lost to the Self.The old teachings were a prescription for too much,the new teachings are a prescription for too little.Where shall the truth meet?It is only in our love for each other.Something's are obvious, and only fools mistake them.There is only God happening in us.All other talk is just talk.To say you will be absent from what is the expression of the Self is just talk.Test this in your life. test this on any touch stone you can test it upon.......Inquire into the nature of being and ask yourself-----Do you exist?The answer is always Yes.You are You!!!!Not the you that you may believe you arebut the You of God.Totally unique.love eric Dear Eric and Mazie...Mazie wrote:>>> And then the Supreme State does not arrive uninvited, unexpected.There is no "one" left to notice it's absence or it's presence. <<<Eric wrote:>>> ...If you are an incarnate being with bodily needs, there is alwayssomething left. What is left is a persona that is free of the desire bodies,but not free of its identity within the Whole. Because the identity nolonger identifies its truth to the persona, does not mean it returns toabsence. It lives with that absence as a uniqueness. <<<At some point, we are also free of the persona (per-sona), we have thenrecovered our divine / human beingness again... We do not lose uniquenessthough, we don't have to. Our uniqueness expresses our Oneness uniquely...(remember the hologram?)Could it just be that the last one to leave our integrated being is "thepersona"?Thus, "There is no "one" left to notice it's absence or it's presence."Wim---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release 8/2/2002------------------------ Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Nowhttp://us.click./pt6YBB/NXiEAA/RN.GAA/bpSolB/TM---~->/join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a.Your use of is subject to /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a.Your use of is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2002 Report Share Posted August 14, 2002 on 8/14/02 10:10 AM, ErcAshfrd at ErcAshfrd wrote: > > Dearest Wim, > > My answer is no. > > Yet my answer to everything is always Yes. > So Yes to your answer! Ah hahah! Beautiful Eric! > What I would try to say within my foolish self is - > There is always something of You, and it is a totally unique > expression of God. > If you try to be absent to that, you are lost to the Self. > The old teachings were a prescription for too much, > the new teachings are a prescription for too little. > Where shall the truth meet? > It is only in our love for each other. > Something's are obvious, and only fools mistake them. > There is only God happening in us. > All other talk is just talk. > To say you will be absent from what is the expression > of the Self is just talk. > Test this in your life. test this on any touch stone > you can test it upon....... > Inquire into the nature of being > and ask yourself----- > Do you exist? > The answer is always Yes. > You are You!!!! > Not the you that you may believe you are > but the You of God. > Totally unique. > > love > > eric > very nice Eric! ~Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2002 Report Share Posted August 14, 2002 , Wim Borsboom <wim@a...> wrote: .....per-sona comes from the word mask )))Aye, Matey -- "Red sky in the morning, sailor take warning. Red sky at night, sailor's delight!" LoveAlways, b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2002 Report Share Posted August 14, 2002 on 8/14/02 10:28 AM, ErcAshfrd at ErcAshfrd wrote: > Yes, but forgive me for saying this, > There is You. > Who wrote this? > If you say nobody you deny God. > Please make yourself a clarity. > > love > > eric ========= uh oh.....you're not serious? Please say nothing, so i know you're not there! Bwaahahah! I seemed to have slipped right through my own fingers! Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2002 Report Share Posted August 14, 2002 on 8/14/02 10:31 AM, hrtbeat7 at hrtbeat7 wrote: > , ErcAshfrd@a... wrote: > >> There is You. > Who wrote this? > If you say nobody you deny God. > Please make yourself a clarity. > > > )))) Clarity, no clarity. > > LoveAlways, > > b ======= Ah- HA! I knew it! Pretending to be there and not there....again! ))))))))Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2002 Report Share Posted August 14, 2002 , shawn <shawn@w...> wrote: >Ah- HA! I knew it! Pretending to be there and not there....again! You cannot think yourself awake. You cannot talk yourself awake. You cannot practice yourself awake. You cannot be argued into awakening. You cannot find anyone who will awaken you. You cannot awaken. Nobody has ever awoken. Nobody will ever awaken. Awakening is not something that happens to somebody. Give up the struggle. The Guru has never been absent, but is not someone you can find or lose. You pretend you exist. Then you pretend that you suffer. Then you pretend you can find a path that relieves you of your pretend suffering. Then you pretend that you have found such a pretend path, and proclaim it to all the other imaginary playmates. You may even pretend you are just the one to lead others on the pretend path to the alleviation of the imaginary disease. It's fun to pretend. Many take this seriously, or at least pretend to. After all, it's fun to pretend. That's why He pretends. He pretends to be you. He pretends to forget He is pretending. Then He looks for Himself to remind Himself. He is so funny, and He just loves this game. Then He gets tired and goes to sleep, and everything disappears. Then there is Nothing, the same state in which you now exist. HaHaHa -- Mr. Pretend Man! Mr. Satchidananda! LoveAlways, b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2002 Report Share Posted August 14, 2002 Dear Eric, I'm very happy to read how you understand Purusha! Sri Aurobindo would surely concur... We agree more than what seems to show... I always had a feeling that etymologically the word "person" was related to purusha, but I could never find corroboration for this in traditional etymological dictionaries. The Sanskrit roots PU (beget, produce) and PUR (food) are possibilities. Wim. ErcAshfrd (AT) aol (DOT) com [ErcAshfrd (AT) aol (DOT) com]Wednesday, August 14, 2002 2:46 PMTo: Subject: Re: Re: The end of all Yearnings -- SandeepSmiles Dear Wim, Perusha also means the real Self I think.It is the real person.In this we all get personal.blessings eric Dear Eric I understand you well, I just wanted to throw in something about the idea "person".Obviously I understand something else under that word than you, and that is OK. It's just this, I always catch myself, when it comes to "realized beings" that I never seem to use the word "person"... It just will not come up. For argument sake I will never say of Ramana, that he was such a sweet person.You may remember that per-sona comes from the word mask, that is probably what plays in the background.WimPS"Person" - Middle English, from Old French persone, from Latin persona actor's mask, character in a play, person, probably from Etruscan phersu mask, from Greek prosOpa, plural of prosOpon face, mask) ErcAshfrd (AT) aol (DOT) com [ErcAshfrd (AT) aol (DOT) com]Wednesday, August 14, 2002 1:10 PMSubject: Re: Re: The end of all Yearnings -- SandeepDearest Wim, My answer is no. Yet my answer to everything is always Yes. So Yes to your answer!What I would try to say within my foolish self is -There is always something of You, and it is a totally unique expression of God.If you try to be absent to that, you are lost to the Self.The old teachings were a prescription for too much,the new teachings are a prescription for too little.Where shall the truth meet?It is only in our love for each other.Something's are obvious, and only fools mistake them.There is only God happening in us.All other talk is just talk.To say you will be absent from what is the expression of the Self is just talk.Test this in your life. test this on any touch stone you can test it upon.......Inquire into the nature of being and ask yourself-----Do you exist?The answer is always Yes.You are You!!!!Not the you that you may believe you arebut the You of God.Totally unique.love eric Dear Eric and Mazie...Mazie wrote:>>> And then the Supreme State does not arrive uninvited, unexpected.There is no "one" left to notice it's absence or it's presence. <<<Eric wrote:>>> ...If you are an incarnate being with bodily needs, there is alwayssomething left. What is left is a persona that is free of the desire bodies,but not free of its identity within the Whole. Because the identity nolonger identifies its truth to the persona, does not mean it returns toabsence. It lives with that absence as a uniqueness. <<<At some point, we are also free of the persona (per-sona), we have thenrecovered our divine / human beingness again... We do not lose uniquenessthough, we don't have to. Our uniqueness expresses our Oneness uniquely...(remember the hologram?)Could it just be that the last one to leave our integrated being is "thepersona"?Thus, "There is no "one" left to notice it's absence or it's presence."Wim---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release 8/2/2002------------------------ Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Nowhttp://us.click./pt6YBB/NXiEAA/RN.GAA/bpSolB/TM---~->/join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a.Your use of is subject to /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a.Your use of is subject to the Sponsorvar lrec_target="_top";var lrec_URL = new Array();lrec_URL[1]="http://rd./M=231283.2257957.3692387.2197213/D=egroupweb/S=1705060955:HM/A=1196107/R=0/id=flashurl/*http://geocities./v/p/feature.html";var lrec_flashfile="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/1-/flash/sony/xxx_geo_300x250.swf";var lrec_altURL="http://rd./M=231283.2257957.3692387.2197213/D=egroupweb/S=1705060955:HM/A=1196107/R=1/id=altimgurl/*http://geocities./v/p/feature.html";var lrec_altimg=" ";var lrec_width=300;var lrec_height=250; /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a.Your use of is subject to the /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a.Your use of is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2002 Report Share Posted August 15, 2002 I am sorry if I said anything to offend you. It was not my intention, just foolish talk from a fool. Have a good great camp-out in the mountains love eric Thanks for the laugh Eric, If you believe there are many levels of awareness, then for you there are many levels of love too isn't it? To be judged on what? Literature? Your specific love level? The gut feeling guru? Wouldn't wisdom be not to stuff the mind with levels? Whatever has a beginning has an end - that goes for feelings too, whether yearning, loving, caring, suffering, irrespective the level. The mention of levels (states) denotes their transitoriness and pictures the narrator believing, and judging the states like "lower", "higher", "highest". Thus the yearning show goes on and on. :-) Jan On 8/14/02 at 4:17 PM ErcAshfrd (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote: Dear Jan, there are levels of awareness. Should I judge you, or you mother on what level of consciousness you or she are on temporarily? You ask me to make about -expectations. I would simply say do away with them. Love eric Hi Eric, My mother, Altzheimer patient for years, doesn't know what the word "expectation" means anymore, doesn't have any expectations, not even simple biological ones like hunger or thirst: she has to be reminded to eat and while eating forgets it so needs help. Her state is far from enviable although showing all traits of supposed "holiness", including silence... What has been left is fear... Hence, any "state" requiring conditions like "no expectations" for its realization is conditioned by definition. There is more conditioning than expectation - what about the expectation of the organism for clean (unpolluted) air for instance? (The plantation here has been treated with methylbromide so now too i'm not theorizing) Off to camp in the mountains... Peace, Jan On 8/14/02 at 1:01 PM ErcAshfrd (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote: Dear Mazie, thanks for this. Sandeep has a good point. I was right with this post until the end though. <Till the moment, when ALL yearnings have ceased. ALL. And then the Supreme State does not arrive uninvited, unexpected. There is no "one" left to notice it's absence or it's presence.>>>> There is always something left. If you are an incarnate being with bodily needs, there is always something left. What is left is a persona that is free of the desire bodies, but not free of its identity within the Whole. Because the identity no longer identifies its truth to the persona, does not mean it returns to absence. It lives with that absence as a uniqueness. Maybe I am saying the same thing as Sandeep, only from a more mundane perspective, but I think it is a distinction worth pointing out. love eric Tun TunaTun, Tun, TunaTun Tun LoveAlways, Mazie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2002 Report Share Posted August 15, 2002 Thanks for the laugh Eric, If you believe there are many levels of awareness, then for you there are many levels of love too isn't it? To be judged on what? Literature? Your specific love level? The gut feeling guru? Wouldn't wisdom be not to stuff the mind with levels? Whatever has a beginning has an end - that goes for feelings too, whether yearning, loving, caring, suffering, irrespective the level. The mention of levels (states) denotes their transitoriness and pictures the narrator believing, and judging the states like "lower", "higher", "highest". Thus the yearning show goes on and on. :-) JanOn 8/14/02 at 4:17 PM ErcAshfrd (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote: Dear Jan,there are levels of awareness. Should I judge you, or you motheron what level of consciousness you or she are on temporarily?You ask me to make about -expectations.I would simply say do away with them. Love eric Hi Eric,My mother, Altzheimer patient for years, doesn't know what the word "expectation"means anymore, doesn't have any expectations, not even simple biological oneslike hunger or thirst: she has to be reminded to eat and while eating forgets itso needs help. Her state is far from enviable although showing all traits of supposed"holiness", including silence... What has been left is fear... Hence, any "state" requiring conditions like "no expectations" for its realization is conditioned by definition. There is more conditioning than expectation - whatabout the expectation of the organism for clean (unpolluted) air for instance?(The plantation here has been treated with methylbromide so now too i'm not theorizing) Off to camp in the mountains...Peace,Jan On 8/14/02 at 1:01 PM ErcAshfrd (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote: Dear Mazie,thanks for this. Sandeep has a good point. I was right with thispost until the end though. <Till the moment, when ALL yearnings have ceased.ALL.And then the Supreme State does not arrive uninvited, unexpected.There is no "one" left to notice it's absence or it's presence.>>>>There is always something left. If you are an incarnate being with bodilyneeds, there is always something left. What is left is a persona that is freeof the desire bodies, but not free of its identity within the Whole.Because the identity no longer identifies its truth to the persona,does not mean it returns to absence. It lives with that absence as a uniqueness.Maybe I am saying the same thing as Sandeep, only from a moremundane perspective, but I think it is a distinction worth pointing out.loveeric Tun TunaTun, Tun, TunaTun TunLoveAlways,Mazie/join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spont aneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a.Your use of is subject to the Sponsorvar lrec_target="_top";var lrec_URL = new Array();lrec_URL[1]="http://rd./M=231283.2257957.3692387.2197213/D=egroupweb/S=1705060955:HM/A=1196107/R=0/id=flashurl/*http://geocities./v/p/feature.html";var lrec_flashfile="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/1-/flash/sony/xxx_geo_300x250.swf'>http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/1-/flash/sony/xxx_geo_300x250.swf";var lrec_altURL="http://rd./M=231283.2257957.3692387.2197213/D=egroupweb/S=1705060955:HM/A=1196107/R=1/id=altimgurl/*http://geocities./v/p/feature.html";var lrec_altimg="http://us.a1.yim g.com/us.yimg.com/a/1-/flash/sony/xxx_geo_300x250.jpg";var lrec_width=300;var lrec_height=250; /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spont aneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a.Your use of is subject to the /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spont aneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a.Your use of is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2002 Report Share Posted August 16, 2002 Dear Eric, You didn't insult me and i doubt if anyone could... Not a matter of Advaita talk but there's nothing left to interpret a combination of words as such... When not believing, just try. The questions were meant as an encouragement to investigate things yourself... When falling asleep, could you write down the time that separated being awake from asleep? And when waking up in the morning, is there a moment that you can say "i'm awake now"? How come that is different when dozing off? And when woken up, does analyzing the dreams to the extent of no longer being aware of the environment qualify as "unawareness"? In these matters, knowledge has to be experiential to make a difference ;-) Peace, Jan On 8/15/02 at 8:37 AM ErcAshfrd (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote: Dear Jan,I am sorry if I said anything to offend you. It was not my intention, just foolish talk from a fool.Have a good great camp-out in the mountainsloveeric Thanks for the laugh Eric,If you believe there are many levels of awareness,then for you there are many levels of love too isn't it?To be judged on what? Literature? Your specific love level? The gut feeling guru?Wouldn't wisdom be not to stuff the mind with levels?Whatever has a beginning has an end - that goes for feelings too,whether yearning, loving, caring, suffering, irrespective the level.The mention of levels (states) denotes their transitorinessand pictures the narrator believing, and judging the states like "lower", "higher", "highest". Thus the yearning show goes on and on.:-)JanOn 8/14/02 at 4:17 PM ErcAshfrd (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote: Dear Jan,there are levels of awareness. Should I judge you, or you motheron what level of consciousness you or she are on temporarily?You ask me to make about -expectations.I would simply say do away with them. Love eric Hi Eric,My mother, Altzheimer patient for years, doesn't know what the word "expectation"means anymore, doesn't have any expectations, not even simple biological oneslike hunger or thirst: she has to be reminded to eat and while eating forgets itso needs help. Her state is far from enviable although showing all traits of supposed"holiness", including silence... What has been left is fear... Hence, any "state" requiring conditions like "no expectations" for its realization is conditioned by definition. There is more conditioning than expectation - whatabout the expectation of the organism for clean (unpolluted) air for instance?(The plantation here has been treated with methylbromide so now too i'm not theorizing) Off to camp in the mountains...Peace,Jan On 8/14/02 at 1:01 PM ErcAshfrd (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote: Dear Mazie,thanks for this. Sandeep has a good point. I was right with thispost until the end though. <Till the moment, when ALL yearnings have ceased.ALL.And then the Supreme State does not arrive uninvited, unexpected.There is no "one" left to notice it's absence or it's presence.>>>>There is always something left. If you are an incarnate being with bodilyneeds, there is always something left. What is left is a persona that is freeof the desire bodies, but not free of its identity within the Whole.Because the identity no longer identifies its truth to the persona,does not mean it returns to absence. It lives with that absence as a uniqueness.Maybe I am saying the same thing as Sandeep, only from a moremundane perspective, but I think it is a distinction worth pointing out.loveeric Tun TunaTun, Tun, TunaTun TunLoveAlways,Mazie/join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spont aneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a.Your use of is subject to the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2002 Report Share Posted August 16, 2002 Good Morning Jan, Thank you so much for your post and encouragement. The reason I felt it necessary to apologise to you was that earlier reply was from my lower self (ego), and was foolish. And I felt it important to acknowledge that, not for you, but for me! There a so many paths to Self-realisation, none no better than the other in my opinion. Each of us must travel our individual way it seems to me. Yet we can be guided in all things. As you may know, I follow a more Sufi orientated path. It is not Adviatic in the sense of direct inquiry, but then again it is. For all this inner work is self-inquiry. What you have mentioned in your post forms one of the many spiritual practices within the multitude of so call Sufi ways. As so often happens in life, synchronicities abound when we come together to share our spiritual experiences. This morning a friend of mine passed on the post below which talks of states of being, imagination and intermediary existence's. So I am passing it on to this forum by way of interest. Not as a truth doctrine, not as a belief or system of belief, just as an other way of understanding our One Truth. It is my turn now to enjoy the great out doors be back on Monday. love eric The world of imagination You may have seen the movie “What dreams may comeâ€. It gives a depiction of what happens to a husband and his wife after death. When the two of them were still alive, then the place where they first met became a place of their happiest memories, a place they often fondly remembered, a place they wanted to return to. After the death of the husband he sees and visits this place of his dreams. In his afterlife his former thoughts, ideals, etc. have become his actual surroundings. So the afterlife shows a reversal: his inner processes when he was still alive have become his outside surroundings. This is a depiction of what the sufis say about the ‘alam al-khayal, the world of imagination where we’ll be after death. I have been told that sufis have been helping in the design aspects of the aforementioned movie. It so happened that a painter exhibited his latest painting. It was a partridge. All visitors admired the quality of the painting. When a cat saw the painting it was so realistic that the cat wanted to attack the partridge. Then Ibn al-‘Arabi entered to see the painting. The artist asked him what he thought of it and he said that he thought it to be very beautiful, but… ‘But what?’ - asked the painter. Then the sufi pointed out a mistake in regard to the proportions of the painting. The painter then kissed the hand of the shaykh and said that he had made the mistake on purpose to see if anyone would notice it. Not only is this a reference to the creative name of Allah, the Fashioner, but it is also showing something that an artist and a sufi have in common: the faculty of imagination (khayal). It is tempting to say more about Persian miniatures who depict the world of the imagination or to compare the music of the Sufis with aspects of this world, but then this would call for a separate description. Imagination is the key to the world of imagination (‘alam al-khayal). This world has been created by Allah as an intermediary between the world of the spirit and the world of the body. Why? Because of the fact that the power of governing of the body has been given to the spirit and as the essences of spirits and bodies are completely different it is impossible to have a direct relationship between them. So a barrier (barzakh) has been created between the two. The journey that ‘we’ make has a descending and an ascending mode. Descending: before birth the soul travels through the world of the spirit and the world of imagination. Ascending: returning to Allah through the world of imagination and the world of the spirit. This returning does not only take place after death, but also during dreams and it is part of your spiritual development. The world of imagination partakes of the attributes of both worlds next to it. That is why in dreams we can have access to this world as spiritual realities which cannot be perceived in themselves are ‘clothed’ in subtle matter, so that is why we can see things in this world. There are two levels in this ‘alam al-khayal. One of them is closer to the world of the spirit and the other is closer to the world of the body. The imagination in the highest level is absolute while the imagination at the other level is limited. Everything manifested in the higher level of the world of imagination corresponds totally and correctly to the world of the spirit from which it gains its existence. But the lower level is coloured by the nature of the receptacle, e.g. by the mental faculties of the person who perceives it. In exercising their imagination most people see images which are delimited by their own selves and circumstances. In contrast the perfect men have overcome their individual limitations; what they contemplate at the lower level corresponds exactly to the higher level. Therefore what they see is true. So if we have a dream wherein it is made clear to us that we should sacrifice our oldest son, then we should be careful with its interpretation. When the prophet Abraham had such a dream its meaning was different. You may remember that the prophet Muhammad (Allah’s blessings and peace be upon him) got a visit from a man dressed in very white clothes who asked him about islam, iman (faith) and ihsan (excelling in virtue). How could his clothes be so white as he must have made a long travel through the desolate hot areas around Mecca? It was in fact the angel Gabriel whose body was an imaginary one. When he asked about ihsan, the prophet said that ihsan is ‘to worship Allah AS IF you see Him, for if you do not see Him, He sees you’. The use of the words AS IF make it clear that imagination is the instrument used in this contemplation of God. As the eye - or better said the purification of the faculty of seeing - is the key to contemplation, likewise the faculty of imagination is the key to the ‘alam al-khayal. There are in fact seven faculties of the soul: 1. Common sense 2. Imagination 3. Cognition 4. Memory 5. Fantasy 6. Irascible appetite 7. Concupiscible appetite. So you should not think that imagination is the same as fantasy. As there is more beyond the world of imagination, likewise imagination should not overpower all the other faculties. The ‘king’ of the inner senses should be the common sense and then imagination (under the domination of the common sense) will be used in a balanced way. The experiences of the ‘alam al-khayal are in a way the opposite of those of the ordinary world. In our everyday world you have a fixed exterior and changing thoughts and states. In the world of the imagination you experience the reverse thereof. Your changing states create an ever-changing outward surroundings. This can be experienced after death, but the truth hereof is also known during dreams. In case you are afraid in your dream, you will find yourself in a situation wherein you will be attacked. Your first seeing of thorns and later on roses are the outside manifestations in the dream-world of your alternating states. This almost fluently and quickly changes into different situations you have to face in your dreams originating in your lusts, hopes, certainty, love, etc It is interesting to read what Jean During, the foremost Western authority in the field of sufi music has to say about the world of imagination in connection to sufi music. A musical note can be seen as something that has the same properties as the images of the world of the barzakh, the world of the imagination. You may also visit in your dreams, in your visions, before this life or in the life hereafter one of the two cities in the world of imagination which are called Jabalqa and Jabarsa: Jabalqa is the world of archetypes (mundus archetypus) located to the East and turned towards the spiritual entities; it is the interworld (barzakh) between the suprasensory world and the world visible to the senses. It contains all the archetypes of the universe and thus of necessity is an immense city. Jabarsa, to the West, is the world of the image, the interworld in which the spirits dwell when they have left the world of earthly existence. It deals with an intermediary world, so the city is not found by means of ordinary geography. One can visit it in dreams, when awake by means of the faculty of imagination (but in both cases it is better to travel with a visa) and after death. Siraj Dear Eric, You didn't insult me and i doubt if anyone could... Not a matter of Advaita talk but there's nothing left to interpret a combination of words as such... When not believing, just try. The questions were meant as an encouragement to investigate things yourself... When falling asleep, could you write down the time that separated being awake from asleep? And when waking up in the morning, is there a moment that you can say "i'm awake now"? How come that is different when dozing off? And when woken up, does analyzing the dreams to the extent of no longer being aware of the environment qualify as "unawareness"? In these matters, knowledge has to be experiential to make a difference ;-) Peace, Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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