Guest guest Posted September 14, 2002 Report Share Posted September 14, 2002 b. & Friends, >>> ))) If the Formless has nothing more to learn, why does it perpetually manifest as form? Why indeed? Why assume that it has anything to do with learning? There have been many theories put forth as to the impetus behind genesis, My own is a lengthy matter that I think I'll leave til later. What's a spiritual story if it doesn't include a teaching? >>> "Even Shakyamuni was only half-way to the goal." ~ Dogen Zenji I think I'll leave that one to Dogen and Shakyamuni. >>> "There is no enlightened person, there is only enlightened activity." ~ Moo Shoo Well, b., as far as I can see, Moo Shoo brings us back to my original point. I guess, at least in this case, what goes around comes around. yours in the bonds, eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2002 Report Share Posted September 14, 2002 , EBlackstead@c... wrote: b: If the Formless has nothing more to learn, why does it perpetually manifest as form? eric: Why indeed? Why assume that it has anything to do with learning? )))) It'd dawn, Eric. You are still in the bonds, learning. Why assume that you are any different from the Formless? eric: There have been many theories put forth as to the impetus behind genesis, My own is a lengthy matter that I think I'll leave til later. What's a spiritual story if it doesn't include a teaching? )))) i have my own theory, but i think i've already upset enough people. :-)) b: "Even Shakyamuni was only half-way to the goal." ~ Dogen Zenji eric; I think I'll leave that one to Dogen and Shakyamuni. )))) Yes, those inscrutable Asians! b: "There is no enlightened person, there is only enlightened activity." ~ Moo Shoo eric: Well, b., as far as I can see, Moo Shoo brings us back to my original point. I guess, at least in this case, what goes around comes around. ))) "The faster you go, the rounder you get!" ~ Moo Shoo :-)) LoveAlways, b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2002 Report Share Posted September 14, 2002 Hi Eric, When ~ Moo Shoo said: "There is no enlightened person, there is only enlightened activity." ~ Oh No responded with: "I beg to differ" :-) You quoted: "Even Shakyamuni was only half-way to the goal." ~ Dogen Zenji You said: >>>I think I'll leave that one to Dogen and Shakyamuni.<<< I bet you, those two had no issue with each other... Wim PS Someone asked Robert why he signs with a small b, can I ask you why you sign off with "yours in bonds"? --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.386 / Virus Database: 218 - Release 9/9/2002 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2002 Report Share Posted September 14, 2002 Dear Robert, You wrote to Eric: >>> i have my own theory, but i think i've already upset enough people. :-)) <<< You wrote to Eric: >>>I have stood here, my chest torn open for the months since I have been in this playground, completely aware that not one thing I have ever said has been heard... <<< I don't believe that you have upset many people and also that you have been heard... Anyway if you need any sympathy, empathy or anything else you may find yourself short of, you can always come to me as I have any of those resources aplenty. Wim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2002 Report Share Posted September 14, 2002 b. & Friends, b. says: )))) It'd dawn, Eric. You are still in the bonds, learning. Why assume that you are any different from the Formless? eric says: Well, b., if it's any comfort to you, I wish I'd never started that "bonds" riff. I assumed a level of sophistication in our readers that has proved out more in the breach than in the observance. Still, let me be clear: we are all in the bonds of learning, that is to say, of Karma, or if you prefer, Maya. As to your second question: Why assume that you are any different from the formless?, I can only suggest to you that the term Maya means to designate a confusion as to our reality. I assume you've noticed that? I have, too. If that fact is irrelevant to you, you have my congratulations. If you are simply ignoring it, you don't have my congratulations. I trust that you will decide for yourself which is which. Good luck, in any case, eric , "hrtbeat7" <hrtbeat7> wrote: > , EBlackstead@c... wrote: > > > > b: If the Formless has nothing more to learn, > why does it perpetually manifest as > form? > > eric: Why indeed? Why assume that it has anything to do with learning? > > > )))) It'd dawn, Eric. You are still in the bonds, learning. Why > assume that you are any different from the Formless? > > > > eric: There have been many theories put forth as to the impetus > behind genesis, My own is a lengthy matter that I think I'll leave > til later. What's a spiritual story if it doesn't include a teaching? > > > > )))) i have my own theory, but i think i've already upset enough > people. :-)) > > > > > b: "Even Shakyamuni was only half-way to the goal." > ~ Dogen Zenji > > eric; I think I'll leave that one to Dogen and Shakyamuni. > > > )))) Yes, those inscrutable Asians! > > > > b: "There is no enlightened person, > there is only enlightened activity." > ~ Moo Shoo > > eric: Well, b., as far as I can see, Moo Shoo brings us back to my > original point. I guess, at least in this case, what goes around > comes around. > > > ))) "The faster you go, the rounder you get!" > ~ Moo Shoo > > > :-)) > > > LoveAlways, > > b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2002 Report Share Posted September 14, 2002 Hi Eric, At this point I should get into the meaning of the word "bonds"... Don't get me going now... Of course the words yoga as well as religion mean binding together, joining. Yoga actually comes from "jointing", a carpenter's skill and technique. I should go on... but I have some carpentry work of my own to do... so that was enough email for the day... Wim (still bonding) eblack101 [EBlackstead] Saturday, September 14, 2002 2:27 PM Re: The Teacher & the Taught b. & Friends, b. says: )))) It'd dawn, Eric. You are still in the bonds, learning. Why assume that you are any different from the Formless? eric says: Well, b., if it's any comfort to you, I wish I'd never started that "bonds" riff. I assumed a level of sophistication in our readers that has proved out more in the breach than in the observance. Still, let me be clear: we are all in the bonds of learning, that is to say, of Karma, or if you prefer, Maya. As to your second question: Why assume that you are any different from the formless?, I can only suggest to you that the term Maya means to designate a confusion as to our reality. I assume you've noticed that? I have, too. If that fact is irrelevant to you, you have my congratulations. If you are simply ignoring it, you don't have my congratulations. I trust that you will decide for yourself which is which. Good luck, in any case, eric , "hrtbeat7" <hrtbeat7> wrote: > , EBlackstead@c... wrote: > > > > b: If the Formless has nothing more to learn, > why does it perpetually manifest as > form? > > eric: Why indeed? Why assume that it has anything to do with learning? > > > )))) It'd dawn, Eric. You are still in the bonds, learning. Why > assume that you are any different from the Formless? > > > > eric: There have been many theories put forth as to the impetus > behind genesis, My own is a lengthy matter that I think I'll leave > til later. What's a spiritual story if it doesn't include a teaching? > > > > )))) i have my own theory, but i think i've already upset enough > people. :-)) > > > > > b: "Even Shakyamuni was only half-way to the goal." > ~ Dogen Zenji > > eric; I think I'll leave that one to Dogen and Shakyamuni. > > > )))) Yes, those inscrutable Asians! > > > > b: "There is no enlightened person, > there is only enlightened activity." > ~ Moo Shoo > > eric: Well, b., as far as I can see, Moo Shoo brings us back to my > original point. I guess, at least in this case, what goes around > comes around. > > > ))) "The faster you go, the rounder you get!" > ~ Moo Shoo > > > :-)) > > > LoveAlways, > > b /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. Your use of is subject to --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.386 / Virus Database: 218 - Release 9/9/2002 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.386 / Virus Database: 218 - Release 9/9/2002 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2002 Report Share Posted September 14, 2002 , Wim Borsboom <wim@a...> wrote: >I don't believe that you have upset many people and also that you have been heard... )))) Wim, Dear Friend, then i retract everything i said! :-) if people have not been upset, it is due to my own failings at communication, and if any believe that they are something that hears something, i should be the one upset for heaping more foulness on foulness still! >Anyway if you need any sympathy, empathy or anything else you may find yourself short of, you can always come to me as I have any of those resources aplenty. ))) You are most generous, especially since we have never been separated. I stopped wanting what i don't have when i began wanting what i already have -- it is a simple shift, but transformative. What i find myself short of these days is much of any interest in indulging conceptual disputes, debates, and theories regarding what is right before my eyes, and what is burning there. LoveAlways, b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2002 Report Share Posted September 14, 2002 , "eblack101" <EBlackstead@c...> wrote: >Still, let me be clear: we are all in the bonds of learning, that is to say, of Karma, or if you prefer, Maya. ))) Isn't this something you have learned? Without this belief, what remains? i appreciate your intent to be clear. >As to your second question: Why assume that you are any different from the formless?, I can only suggest to you that the term Maya means to designate a confusion as to our reality. I assume you've noticed that? ))) I have noticed that many terms are tossed around attempting to describe a phenomena that cannot be described by mind, since mind itself arises and vanishes within it, as a non-binding modification of it, and it's just as well, since enough people already think that the words and what's pointed to with words are the same. >I have, too. ))) Well then what's the beef? It's Saturday afternoon, have a beer! >If that fact is irrelevant to you, you have my congratulations. If you are simply ignoring it, you don't have my congratulations. I trust that you will decide for yourself which is which. ))) I am neither encouraged by congratualtions or discouraged by their lack, since i am clearly unable to possess either. Rather than trusting as to which way the wind of Her Breath will blow me, why not trust in your own deepest yearning and let each rest in the implications inherent in their own. LoveAlways, b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2002 Report Share Posted September 16, 2002 My dear Robert, You wrote: >>>What i find myself short of these days is much of any interest in indulging conceptual disputes, debates, and theories *regarding* what is right before my eyes, and what is *burning* there.<<< Indeed, indulging in conceptual disputes would be short-changing the conceptual self in the conceptual eye of its conceptual beholder of conceptual time... Ill conceived conceptions... "Regarding", hmm, what a beautiful word... loving perception! "What is burning there." When energy turns into matter, love burns without being consumed. Warm Regards, Wim --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.386 / Virus Database: 218 - Release 9/9/2002 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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