"last words" of Krishnamurti - I am so totally special--can't you see?

[Guest guest]

Dear Dan,

 

Enjoyed reading your post.

 

I don't know anything about the childhood hurt stuff though.

 

It seems whether someone had a happy or unhappy childhood, there is a

general feeling for everyone to think they are special. Outwardly,

from a bodily perspective, it may be related to the basic survival

instinct....even seen in animals, worms, and small microbes.

 

So as you noted, it is nothing extraordinary if Krishnamurti joins

the crowds of billions who feel the same way...that they are somehow

special and that the world will not see the likes of them ever again,

or at least for several hundred years, etc., when perhaps they will

condescend to make another trip out of compassion and so forth.

 

If someone is very special, then it implies that there are others who

are less special. All of this might be true of course. The difficulty

lies in finding a criteria to judge specialness. How would such a

criteria be developed? Perhaps by special people. But how would we

know that these were special people--without first having a criteria

for specialness.

 

The comical aspect of it becomes clear -- if we stay with the body

notion that our energy is somehow special-- when we realize that the

earth is a speck of dust in this galaxy and that the cosmos contains

billions and billions of such galaxies...

 

Everyone is special to someone, that is for sure.

 

Harsha

 

 

, "dan330033" <dan330033> wrote:

> After seventy years, Krishnamurti

> still had not resolved

> the childhood hurt that resulted

> in narcissistic responses and a desire

> to be seen as personally special.

>

> Of course, in this difficulty

> resolving the narcissim of

> specialness, he is not unique,

> but merely one of billions -- all

> of whom have the same energy

> moving through them.

>

> It's ironic when it becomes clear

> that personality involving

> a desire to be seen as special

> and important remains in those

> who preach with clarity

> about dropping it. It also

> has struck me with Osho and Adi Da

> how flagrantly narcissistic they

> were in treating their followers,

> to whom they frequently spoke about

> "being nothing."

>

> The denial of personality seems like

> a basis to unconsciously maintain

> personal claims of specialness

> which are then rationalized --

> often followers are more than happy

> to assist with the rationalizations.

>

> It is not through the dropping of any personality

> or any sense of specialness that one

> is clear about the truth beyond personality --

> it is when personality doesn't cling to itself

> or deny itself -- it is when any sense of

> one's specialness is clearly in "perspective" --

> understood as what it is -- not denied while

> one pretends to have some awesome sense of truth

> that everyone else lacks -- that whole dynamic

> of "me" having something awesomely special

> that "you" don't -- which is evident in so many

> teachers and teachings -- is nothing more

> than a narcissistic orientation ...

>

> How ironic are the dynamics involved

> in these claims to have dropped

> any personality while others still

> have personalities -- and to be personally

> embodying an infinite impersonal energy

> that no one else has.

>

> -- Dan

[Guest guest]

Hi Harsha --

 

I was speculating.

 

But I do know that Krishnamurti was

adopted by leaders of the Theosophy movement,

taken out of his culture, and prepared

to become the world-teacher.

 

I don't know many of the details, but remember

hearing or reading that some of it was

traumatic for him.

 

He ended up totally renouncing the Theosophy

movement and disbanding the Order of the Star

which they had set up to be his vehicle.

 

This is what I'm interpreting as some evidence

of childhood trauma, and it seems bound to

lead to strongly ambivalent feelings about

being special and significant.

 

If it were true that everyone is special to to

someone, the world would be a far more harmonious

place to live ... there are far too many children

who had to run away from abuse to live on the

streets of many of the major cities on this planet,

far too many people homeless and alone in the gutters

of those cities.

 

And the energy that animates those bodies, animates

the bodies of those judged by the world to be special,

and keeps all the planets spinning ... so how

could that energy be special...

 

And you're right, in the human experience, to be

cared about as if special is important,

but then having limits on that specialness is

also an important learning -- and then, with

death, there is coming to terms with an event

that makes one not special in the least -- yet

only because of death is one fully who one is ...

 

Being special is to not be special,

Dan

 

, "harshaimtm" wrote:

> Dear Dan,

>

> Enjoyed reading your post.

>

> I don't know anything about the childhood hurt stuff though.

>

> It seems whether someone had a happy or unhappy childhood, there is

a

> general feeling for everyone to think they are special. Outwardly,

> from a bodily perspective, it may be related to the basic survival

> instinct....even seen in animals, worms, and small microbes.

>

> So as you noted, it is nothing extraordinary if Krishnamurti joins

> the crowds of billions who feel the same way...that they are

somehow

> special and that the world will not see the likes of them ever

again,

> or at least for several hundred years, etc., when perhaps they will

> condescend to make another trip out of compassion and so forth.

>

> If someone is very special, then it implies that there are others

who

> are less special. All of this might be true of course. The

difficulty

> lies in finding a criteria to judge specialness. How would such a

> criteria be developed? Perhaps by special people. But how would we

> know that these were special people--without first having a

criteria

> for specialness.

>

> The comical aspect of it becomes clear -- if we stay with the body

> notion that our energy is somehow special-- when we realize that

the

> earth is a speck of dust in this galaxy and that the cosmos

contains

> billions and billions of such galaxies...

>

> Everyone is special to someone, that is for sure.

>

> Harsha

>

>

> , "dan330033" <dan330033> wrote:

> > After seventy years, Krishnamurti

> > still had not resolved

> > the childhood hurt that resulted

> > in narcissistic responses and a desire

> > to be seen as personally special.

> >

> > Of course, in this difficulty

> > resolving the narcissim of

> > specialness, he is not unique,

> > but merely one of billions -- all

> > of whom have the same energy

> > moving through them.

> >

> > It's ironic when it becomes clear

> > that personality involving

> > a desire to be seen as special

> > and important remains in those

> > who preach with clarity

> > about dropping it. It also

> > has struck me with Osho and Adi Da

> > how flagrantly narcissistic they

> > were in treating their followers,

> > to whom they frequently spoke about

> > "being nothing."

> >

> > The denial of personality seems like

> > a basis to unconsciously maintain

> > personal claims of specialness

> > which are then rationalized --

> > often followers are more than happy

> > to assist with the rationalizations.

> >

> > It is not through the dropping of any personality

> > or any sense of specialness that one

> > is clear about the truth beyond personality --

> > it is when personality doesn't cling to itself

> > or deny itself -- it is when any sense of

> > one's specialness is clearly in "perspective" --

> > understood as what it is -- not denied while

> > one pretends to have some awesome sense of truth

> > that everyone else lacks -- that whole dynamic

> > of "me" having something awesomely special

> > that "you" don't -- which is evident in so many

> > teachers and teachings -- is nothing more

> > than a narcissistic orientation ...

> >

> > How ironic are the dynamics involved

> > in these claims to have dropped

> > any personality while others still

> > have personalities -- and to be personally

> > embodying an infinite impersonal energy

> > that no one else has.

> >

> > -- Dan

[Guest guest]

harshaimtm wrote:

If someone is very special, then it implies

that there are others who

are less special. All of this might be true of course. The difficulty

lies in finding a criteria to judge specialness. How would such

a

criteria be developed? Perhaps by special people. But how would

we

know that these were special people--without first having a criteria

for specialness.

Wouldn't it be interesting if everyone treated everyone else

as if they were

absolutely unique and special, as if one were given

the opportunity

to meet god in every face they encounter

 

The comical aspect of it becomes clear -- if we stay with the body

notion that our energy is somehow special-- when we realize that

the

earth is a speck of dust in this galaxy and that the cosmos contains

billions and billions of such galaxies...

 

True, but then what can we ever truly know except ourselves

and even that can prove difficult when we think

we're looking

at someone else.

 

Everyone is special to someone, that is for sure.

For sure

 

Harsha