Guest guest Posted October 17, 2002 Report Share Posted October 17, 2002 The Alpha Lumen of Alstairin Temple, noticing Ixnay carrying a large rock down the road, decided to challenge Ixnay's understanding. "Ixnay, is that rock real, or is it not?" Ixnay responded: "You tell me!" The greeb replied: "Alstairin has said that all phenomena are empty. They are mere concepts, and only have such meaning as is attributed to them, based upon layered conditioning filters. Thus, this rock is an illusion of the mind, a figment in my dream." At this, Ixnay dropped the rock on the greeb's foot. The greeb cried out in pain and bewilderment. Then Ixnay said: "Funny thing, those illusions!" LoveAlways, b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2002 Report Share Posted October 17, 2002 , "hrtbeat7" <hrtbeat7> wrote: > The Alpha Lumen of Alstairin Temple, > noticing Ixnay carrying a large rock down > the road, decided to challenge Ixnay's > understanding. > > "Ixnay, is that rock real, > or is it not?" > > Ixnay responded: > > "You tell me!" > > The greeb replied: > > "Alstairin has said that all phenomena are empty. > They are mere concepts, and only have such meaning as > is attributed to them, based upon layered conditioning filters. > Thus, this rock is an illusion of the mind, a figment in my dream." > > At this, Ixnay dropped the rock on the greeb's foot. > The greeb cried out in pain and bewilderment. > > Then Ixnay said: > > "Funny thing, those illusions!" > > > > > LoveAlways, > > b In a dream last night, I had my arm caught in a car door...In my dream......it was quite painful. Was the pain real.....Was the door real? Was the dream real? Love Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2002 Report Share Posted October 17, 2002 , "lastrainhome" <lastrain@w...> wrote: > In a dream last night, I had my arm caught in a car door...In my dream......it was quite painful. Was the pain real.....Was the door real? Was the dream real? ))) Michael? LoveAlways, b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2002 Report Share Posted October 17, 2002 - viorica_weissman RamanaMaharshi Wednesday, June 12, 2002 11:29 AM [RamanaMaharshi] Maharshi - Creation - [7] Question: Sri Bhagavan often says that Maya (illusion) and reality are the same. How can that be? Sri Ramana Maharshi: Sankara was criticised for his views on Maya without being understood. He said that Brahman is real, The universe is unreal, and The universe is Brahman. He did not stop at the second, because the third explains the other two. It signifies that the universe is real if perceived as the Self, and unreal if perceived apart from the Self. Hence Maya and reality are one and the same. ------------------------------ Dreams by Sadhu Arunachala (Major Alan Chadwick) "We are such stuff As dreams are made of and our short life Is rounded by a sleep." SHAKESPEARE really did know what he was talking about and it was not just poetic effervescence. Maharshi used to say exactly the same. I suppose I questioned Bhagavan more often on this subject than any others, though some doubts always remained for me. He had always warned that as soon as one doubt is cleared another will spring up in its place, and there is no end to doubts. "But Bhagavan," I would repeat, "dreams are disconnected, while the waking experience goes on from where it left off and is admitted by all to be more or less continuous." "Do you say this in your dreams?", Bhagavan would ask. "They seemed perfectly consistent and real to you then. It is only now, in your waking state that you question the reality of the experience. This is not logical." Bhagavan refused to see the least difference between the two states, and in this he agreed with all the great Advaitic Seers. Some have questioned if San-kara did not draw a line of difference between these two states, but Bhagavan has persistently denied it. "Sankara did it apparently only for the purpose of clearer exposition," the Maharshi would explain. However I tried to twist my questions, the answer I received was always the same: "Put your doubts when in the dream state itself. You do not question the waking state when you are awake, you accept it. You accept it in the same way you accept your dreams. Go beyond both states and all three states including deep sleep. Study them from that point of view. You now study one limitation from the point of view of another limitation. Could anything be more absurd? Go beyond all limitation, then come here with your doubts." But in spite of this, doubt still remained. I somehow felt at the time of dreaming there was something unreal in it, not always of course, but just glimpses now and then. " Doesn't that ever happen to you in your waking state too?" Bhagavan queried. "Don't you sometimes feel that the world you live in and the thing that is happening is unreal?" Still, in spite of all this, doubt persisted. But one morning I went to Bhagavan and, much to his amusement, handed him a paper on which the following was written: "Bhagavan remembers that I expressed some doubts about the resemblance between dreams and waking experience. Early in the morning most of these doubts were cleared by the following dream, which seemed particularly objective and real: "I was arguing philosophy with someone and pointed out that all experience was only subjective, that there was nothing outside the mind. The other person demurred, pointing out how solid everything was and how real experience seemed, and it could not be just personal imagination. "I replied, 'No, it is nothing but a dream. Dream and waking experience are exactly the same.' "'You say that now,' he replied, 'but you would never say a thing like that in your dream.' "And then I woke up." -From the Call Divine, March 1954 - hrtbeat7 Thursday, October 17, 2002 11:49 PM Re: Rocking Out , "lastrainhome" <lastrain@w...> wrote: > In a dream last night, I had my arm caught in a car door...In my dream......it was quite painful. Was the pain real.....Was the door real? Was the dream real? ))) Michael? LoveAlways, b /join All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2002 Report Share Posted October 17, 2002 , "Al Larus" <alarus@o...> wrote: > - Thank you for this post....... Something in it made exquisite sense.... Michael > viorica_weissman > RamanaMaharshi > Wednesday, June 12, 2002 11:29 AM > [RamanaMaharshi] Maharshi - Creation - [7] > > Question: > Sri Bhagavan often says that Maya (illusion) and reality are > the same. How can that be? > > Sri Ramana Maharshi: > > Sankara was criticised for his views on Maya without being > understood. He said that > > Brahman is real, > The universe is unreal, and > The universe is Brahman. > He did not stop at the second, because the third explains the other > two. It signifies that the universe is real if perceived as the > Self, and unreal if perceived apart from the Self. Hence Maya and > reality are one and the same. > ------------------------------ > > Dreams by Sadhu Arunachala (Major Alan Chadwick) > > > > > > "We are such stuff > As dreams are made of and our short life > Is rounded by a sleep." > > > > > > SHAKESPEARE really did know what he was talking about and it was not just > poetic effervescence. Maharshi used to say exactly the same. > I suppose I questioned Bhagavan more often on this subject than any others, > though some doubts always remained for me. He had always warned that as soon > as one doubt is cleared another will spring up in its place, and there is no > end to doubts. > "But Bhagavan," I would repeat, "dreams are disconnected, while the waking > experience goes on from where it left off and is admitted by all to be more > or less continuous." > > "Do you say this in your dreams?", Bhagavan would ask. "They seemed > perfectly consistent and real to you then. It is only now, in your waking > state that you question the reality of the experience. This is not logical." > Bhagavan refused to see the least difference between the two states, and in > this he agreed with all the great Advaitic Seers. Some have questioned if > San-kara did not draw a line of difference between these two states, but > Bhagavan has persistently denied it. "Sankara did it apparently only for the > purpose of clearer exposition," the Maharshi would explain. > > However I tried to twist my questions, the answer I received was always the > same: "Put your doubts when in the dream state itself. You do not question > the waking state when you are awake, you accept it. You accept it in the > same way you accept your dreams. Go beyond both states and all three states > including deep sleep. Study them from that point of view. You now study one > limitation from the point of view of another limitation. Could anything be > more absurd? Go beyond all limitation, then come here with your doubts." > But in spite of this, doubt still remained. I somehow felt at the time of > dreaming there was something unreal in it, not always of course, but just > glimpses now and then. > > " Doesn't that ever happen to you in your waking state too?" Bhagavan > queried. "Don't you sometimes feel that the world you live in and the thing > that is happening is unreal?" Still, in spite of all this, doubt persisted. > But one morning I went to Bhagavan and, much to his amusement, handed him a > paper on which the following was written: > "Bhagavan remembers that I expressed some doubts about the resemblance > between dreams and waking experience. Early in the morning most of these > doubts were cleared by the following dream, which seemed particularly > objective and real: > "I was arguing philosophy with someone and pointed out that all experience > was only subjective, that there was nothing outside the mind. The other > person demurred, pointing out how solid everything was and how real > experience seemed, and it could not be just personal imagination. > "I replied, 'No, it is nothing but a dream. Dream and waking experience are > exactly the same.' > "'You say that now,' he replied, 'but you would never say a thing like that > in your dream.' > "And then I woke up." > > > -From the Call Divine, March 1954 > > > > > - > hrtbeat7 > > Thursday, October 17, 2002 11:49 PM > Re: Rocking Out > > > , "lastrainhome" <lastrain@w...> wrote: > > > In a dream last night, I had my arm caught in a car door...In my > dream......it was quite painful. > > Was the pain real.....Was the door real? > Was the dream real? > > > ))) Michael? > > > > LoveAlways, > > b > Sponsor > > > > > > > /join > > > > > > All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights, > perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and subside > back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not different than > the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the nature of Awareness. > Awareness does not come and go but is always Present. It is Home. Home is > where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to be the Finality of Eternal > Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously > arising from within into It Self. Welcome all to a. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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