Guest guest Posted November 9, 2002 Report Share Posted November 9, 2002 Jan wrote: >Since mind-dependent functions like perception continue irrespective "enlightenment", what exactly dissolves? Everything that is not you/Self. >As to no surprise, "liberation" concerns a complicated functional change, and nothing is recognized as there is no memory of it. To put it more simply, with Self Realization, we have stillness of mind -- everything is recognized through knowing (Self).' With liberation, 'nothing is recognized', meaning 'everything that is not you is recognized through knowing (Self).' There is memory of it (nothing) during the process of liberation -- that may, or may not, become amnesia-related and forgotten after the process -- or it couldn't be recognized. Love your poems and pix... keep 'em coming! Love, xxxtg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2002 Report Share Posted November 9, 2002 On 11/9/02 at 4:38 PM Teegee555 (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote: Jan wrote:>Since mind-dependent functions like perception continue irrespective "enlightenment", what exactly dissolves? Everything that is not you/Self. Could you specify? - enquiring minds want to know. >As to no surprise, "liberation" concerns a complicated functionalchange, and nothing is recognized as there is no memory of it. To put it more simply, with Self Realization, we have stillness of mind -- everything is recognized through knowing (Self).' Interesting way to depict a chicken-egg situation: what was first, the stillness of mind or the realization of a Self? With liberation, 'nothing is recognized', meaning 'everything that is not you is recognized through knowing (Self).' There is memory of it (nothing) during the process of liberation -- that may, or may not, become amnesia-related and forgotten after the process -- or it couldn't be recognized. What gets expressed is impressions made, via memory. So what could be expressed outside the scope of the memory's storage? Knowing this means to be careful, and not to mistake the expression for "truth itself". And the above suggests, there could be many expressions regarding the same events... On the bright side, this means it would be easy to coin an expression, easily to understand even for 4 year olds who couldn't understand concepts like the Absolute, the mind, or ego.Love your poems and pix... keep 'em coming! Thank you - sometimes i get a nice pic like that of the mini-parrot, which came from a friend. Dogs are a favorite - man's best friend symbolizes unconditional trust ;-) Peace, Jan Love,xxxtg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2002 Report Share Posted November 11, 2002 , "ecirada" <ecirada@m...> wrote: > On 11/9/02 at 4:38 PM Teegee555@a... wrote: > > Jan wrote: > >Since mind-dependent functions like perception continue irrespective > "enlightenment", what exactly dissolves? > > Everything that is not you/Self. > > Could you specify? - enquiring minds want to know. No... Geez Jan, I tried and tried, this way and that and kept coming up with nothing specifically. But have you ever seen that old movie 'Network News'? That guy that got so fed up with everything, and he screams out his balcony window "I'M MADDER THAN HELL AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!" He knows what is not him. He knows who he is. He finally gives up everything he thought he was, and accepts himself just as he is... take it or leave it. (That's about the closest I can come to being specific, unless you can come up with a more specific question). > > >As to no surprise, "liberation" concerns a complicated functional > change, and nothing is recognized as there is no memory of it. > > To put it more simply, with Self Realization, we have stillness of mind -- everything is recognized through knowing (Self).' > > Interesting way to depict a chicken-egg situation: what was first, the stillness of mind or the realization of a Self? LOL! Neither as I see it. They, IMHO, would be one in the same. Stillness of the mind comes with realization of a Self. Realization of Self includes stillness of the mind. What would come first... a total surrendering?? > With liberation, 'nothing is recognized', meaning 'everything that is not you is recognized through knowing (Self).' There is memory of it (nothing) during the process of liberation -- that may, or may not, become amnesia-related and forgotten after the process -- or it couldn't be recognized. > What gets expressed is impressions made, via memory. So what could be expressed outside the scope of the memory's storage? I'm not understanding the question as it relates to what was stated. Could you say it differently? I don't know if it is forgotten or not -- I just said that as a possibility. >Knowing this means to be careful, and not to mistake the expression for "truth itself". And the above suggests, there could be many expressions regarding the same events... I'm still not understanding. Blonde here. > On the bright side, this means it would be easy to coin an expression, easily to understand even for 4 year olds who couldn't understand concepts like the Absolute, the mind, or ego. I'd like to express something. I don't know what the heck you are talking about! Lotsa Love & Kiwi Kisses, xxxtg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2002 Report Share Posted November 11, 2002 , "teegee555" <Teegee555@a...> wrote: > I'd like to express something. I don't know what the heck you are > talking about! > > Lotsa Love & Kiwi Kisses, > xxxtg ************************ You are the funniest TG!! :-). Jan likes Kiwi! :-). Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2002 Report Share Posted November 11, 2002 On 11/11/02 at 2:06 PM teegee555 wrote: º, "ecirada" <ecirada@m...> wrote: º> On 11/9/02 at 4:38 PM Teegee555@a... wrote: º> º> Jan wrote: º> >Since mind-dependent functions like perception continue ºirrespective º> "enlightenment", what exactly dissolves? º> º> Everything that is not you/Self. º> º> Could you specify? - enquiring minds want to know. º ºNo... Geez Jan, I tried and tried, this way and that and kept coming ºup with nothing specifically. The question is one to trick blonds! As there is only Self, what dissolves are notions, for instance that hair color corresponds with intelligence or that one face is "ugly" and another one, "pretty". Man's best friend doesn't have such notions either ;-) Self-realization regards the dissolution of a lot of such notions/opinions. º ºBut have you ever seen that old movie 'Network News'? That guy that ºgot so fed up with everything, and he screams out his balcony ºwindow "I'M MADDER THAN HELL AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!" Oh no, to drag me to a movie you've got be strong or to drug my tea! I don't watch TV movies either. º ºHe knows what is not him. He knows who he is. He finally gives up ºeverything he thought he was, and accepts himself just as he is... ºtake it or leave it. The old star trek movies were nice - Spock had to accept the emotionality/moodiness of terrestrials. º º(That's about the closest I can come to being specific, unless you ºcan come up with a more specific question). Acceptation is what has brought conditioning - don't think acceptation of that will flush it.. º º> º> >As to no surprise, "liberation" concerns a complicated functional º> change, and nothing is recognized as there is no memory of it. º> º> To put it more simply, with Self Realization, we have stillness of ºmind -- everything is recognized through knowing (Self).' º> º> Interesting way to depict a chicken-egg situation: what was first, ºthe stillness of mind or the realization of a Self? º ºLOL! Neither as I see it. They, IMHO, would be one in the same. ºStillness of the mind comes with realization of a Self. Realization ºof Self includes stillness of the mind. What would come first... a ºtotal surrendering?? The stillness was never absent - it was forgotten as a result of childhood conditioning. The moment that stillness comes to the attention again can happen any time. º º> With liberation, 'nothing is recognized', meaning 'everything that ºis not you is recognized through knowing (Self).' There is memory ºof it (nothing) during the process of liberation -- that may, or may ºnot, become amnesia-related and forgotten after the process -- or it ºcouldn't be recognized. º º> What gets expressed is impressions made, via memory. So what could ºbe expressed outside the scope of the memory's storage? º ºI'm not understanding the question as it relates to what was stated. ºCould you say it differently? I don't know if it is forgotten or ºnot -- I just said that as a possibility. During deep dreamless sleep memory doesn't record anything - so no remembrance remains. If Self-realization isn't in some way related to memory, how could it be noticed? º º>Knowing this means to be careful, and not to mistake the expression ºfor "truth itself". And the above suggests, there could be many ºexpressions regarding the same events... º ºI'm still not understanding. Blonde here. Another term frequently misunderstood is "liberation". It raises questions like "from what?". A statement like "peace of mind irrespective life's vicissitudes" leaves no doubt to what is meant. º º> On the bright side, this means it would be easy to coin an ºexpression, easily to understand even for 4 year olds who couldn't ºunderstand concepts like the Absolute, the mind, or ego. º ºI'd like to express something. I don't know what the heck you are ºtalking about! The expansion of the universe to fit the rapidly increasing amount of i's ;-) º ºLotsa Love & Kiwi Kisses, ºxxxtg Peace peaches with dates, Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2002 Report Share Posted November 12, 2002 , "ecirada" <ecirada@m...> wrote: > On 11/11/02 at 2:06 PM teegee555 wrote: > º> Could you specify? - enquiring minds want to know. > º > ºNo... Geez Jan, I tried and tried, this way and that and kept coming up with nothing specifically. > > The question is one to trick blonds! LOL! I'll get you back, you wacky fruitarian. If you receive a meat loaf in the mail, it isn't from me. > As there is only Self, what dissolves are notions, for instance that hair color > corresponds with intelligence or that one face is "ugly" and another one, "pretty". > Man's best friend doesn't have such notions either ;-) > Self-realization regards the dissolution of a lot of such notions/opinions. Is that your opinion? LOL > Oh no, to drag me to a movie you've got be strong or to drug my tea! > I don't watch TV movies either. Like, Oh-My-Gawd. I'm going to buzz over to the Canary Islands one day to drag (or is that drug) you to a movie! What's the last, and the best, movie you've seen? I just saw Spiderman - I bet you'd love it! > The stillness was never absent - it was forgotten as a result of > childhood conditioning. The moment that stillness comes to the attention again can happen any time. Definitely a better way of putting it. > ºI'm not understanding the question as it relates to what was stated. > ºCould you say it differently? I don't know if it is forgotten or > ºnot -- I just said that as a possibility. > > During deep dreamless sleep memory doesn't record anything - so no remembrance remains. If Self-realization isn't in some way related to memory, how could it be noticed? It can only be recognized. (Are we on the same page yet?) LOL > º> On the bright side, this means it would be easy to coin an > ºexpression, easily to understand even for 4 year olds who couldn't > ºunderstand concepts like the Absolute, the mind, or ego. > º > ºI'd like to express something. I don't know what the heck you are > ºtalking about! > > The expansion of the universe to fit the rapidly increasing amount of i's ;-) Ai yi yi... Georgia Peaches & Peanuts(the best!), xxxtg > º > ºLotsa Love & Kiwi Kisses, > ºxxxtg > > Peace peaches with dates, > > Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2002 Report Share Posted November 12, 2002 On 11/12/02 at 7:58 AM teegee555 wrote: º, "ecirada" <ecirada@m...> wrote: º> On 11/11/02 at 2:06 PM teegee555 wrote: º º> º> Could you specify? - enquiring minds want to know. º> º º> ºNo... Geez Jan, I tried and tried, this way and that and kept ºcoming up with nothing specifically. º> º> The question is one to trick blonds! º ºLOL! I'll get you back, you wacky fruitarian. If you receive a meat ºloaf in the mail, it isn't from me. As the shipment could take some 6 weeks to arrive, send it in a battery operated fridge and i'll feed the steak to the neighbor's rottie ;-) º º> As there is only Self, what dissolves are notions, for instance ºthat hair color º> corresponds with intelligence or that one face is "ugly" and ºanother one, "pretty". º> Man's best friend doesn't have such notions either ;-) º> Self-realization regards the dissolution of a lot of such ºnotions/opinions. º ºIs that your opinion? LOL No, if knowledge of the term "Self-realization" is required prior to the realization, that makes it conditioned. º º º> Oh no, to drag me to a movie you've got be strong or to drug my tea! º> I don't watch TV movies either. º ºLike, Oh-My-Gawd. I'm going to buzz over to the Canary Islands one ºday to drag (or is that drug) you to a movie! What's the last, and ºthe best, movie you've seen? I just saw Spiderman - I bet you'd love ºit! The last documentary i saw was about the behavior of chimpanzees, how the idea of cheating is known to and practiced by them, and how it depends on social rank and gender ;-) º º> The stillness was never absent - it was forgotten as a result of º> childhood conditioning. The moment that stillness comes to the ºattention again can happen any time. º ºDefinitely a better way of putting it. It shows there is nothing to realize... º º> ºI'm not understanding the question as it relates to what was ºstated. º> ºCould you say it differently? I don't know if it is forgotten or º> ºnot -- I just said that as a possibility. º> º> During deep dreamless sleep memory doesn't record anything - so no ºremembrance remains. If Self-realization isn't in some way related to ºmemory, how could it be noticed? º ºIt can only be recognized. º(Are we on the same page yet?) LOL Recognition is a response arising upon repetition of a stimulus - hence the memory function is a crucial one, a bit more obvious than the stillness of mind so more often remains overlooked. º º º> º> On the bright side, this means it would be easy to coin an º> ºexpression, easily to understand even for 4 year olds who couldn't º> ºunderstand concepts like the Absolute, the mind, or ego. º> º º> ºI'd like to express something. I don't know what the heck you are º> ºtalking about! º> º> The expansion of the universe to fit the rapidly increasing amount ºof i's ;-) º ºAi yi yi... º ºGeorgia Peaches & Peanuts(the best!), ºxxxtg Recently, it was discovered that peanuts are in the top ten to arouse food allergies in children.. º º> º º> ºLotsa Love & Kiwi Kisses, º> ºxxxtg º> º> Peace peaches with dates, º> º> Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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